Should I boil more wort?

[Trimmer]

I am about to brew my first batch in the near future and I have a question for you all. I bought an Irish Red Ale extract kit from NB. The recipe calls for me to heat 2.5 gallons of water.

I bought a 10 Gallon brew kettle and I have read the advantages of boiling more wort initially as opposed to adding more water to the carboy. Can I start with 6.5 gallons of water in hopes to end with 5 gallons of wort or should I follow the instructions and just to 2.5 gallons? If I do start with 6.5 gallons do I need to add extra grain, malt, or hops? If so how much and how would I know how much to add?

Thanks for all the other threads as well. I have learned so much from this website. Hopefully I will be doing AG in the future and become a quality home brewer!

Here is the kit inventory sheet
http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/IrishRedAle.pdf

 

[Marko73]

Hi Trimmer, and Welcome!

If you can do a full boil, I def. would. The only part the of process you might want to change is the bittering hops. You will get much better hop utilization with a full boil so you might want to knock back the Williamette by 20 ro 25% to stay true to the bitterness levels.

Also, a lot of people (including me) steep their grains separately (or in less water in the beginning) to extract the most flavor and color. I usually do about a gallon per 1 pound of grain.

Good luck! Let us know how it turns out!

 

[Trimmer]

Thanks Marko.

Ok. Since I am doing a full boil I will cut back the Williamette grains by 25%., which are the hops that are going to be boiled for 60 minutes.

The recipe calls for me to steep 1 lb of grains for 20 minutes or until the water reaches 170 degrees, but you think it will be better for me to steep my 1 lb of grain in 1 gallon on water and then add add that to the extra 5 gallons of water for a full boil.

Also I have a follow up question based based on the recipe report. I am trying to figure out the BU:GU based on the info below. There are three different BU numbers(17, 28 and 33.2)and multiple GU numbes. Which ones do I use? If I use 33.2 and 1.040 that is .825 and a bit hoppy with a weak ABV. Can I just add 2 lbs or so of Malt Extract to increase the OG and balance the beer a bit more?

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
09-D Scottish And Irish Ale, Irish Red Ale

Min OG: 1.044 Max OG: 1.060
Min IBU: 17 Max IBU: 28
Min Clr: 9 Max Clr: 18 Color in SRM, Lovibond


Recipe Specifics
Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Extract (Lbs): 7.00
Anticipated OG: 1.047 Plato: 11.63
Anticipated SRM: 12.9
Anticipated IBU: 33.2
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Pre-Boil Amounts
Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 5.88 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.040 SG 9.94 Plato

 

[Marko73]

You do not need to add any extra Malt Extract. When your recipe is for 5 gallons, whether you boil 2.5 gallons or 5 gallons won't have an effect on your Original Gravity. When you boil your extract with Hops in 2.5 gallons and then top off to make 5 gallons, you are basically making a wort 'concentrate' and then topping off with water. When you boil all 5 gallons, the only things really that change are your boil gravity and your hop utilization. Over the last few years (tons of info on here about it) it has been said that boil gravity doesn't have the same effect on hop utilization as once thought. But, the volume of water does.

When you do a full boil, you don't need to make any changes to the grains or extracts, only to the bittering hops.

The different numbers for the IBU's you are getting is because there are three different formulas: Tinseth, Gareth, and Rager. I honestly wouldn't worry about it. Just see what your software is set to and stick with that.

If your software is changing the IBU's drastically, it is because most software systems still change the IBU's based on Boil gravity.

Hope this all helps. In a nutshell, keep it simple. Reduce the bittering hops and brew away!

 

[Trimmer]

I was asking the about adding more malt because I am interested in raising my OG, not to compensate for a full boil. But that is good to know that I don't need to compensate for a full boil with the malt. I think the beer will only come out to 2.5 ABV or so. not enough! So can I just add a couple pounds of malt?

 

[Marko73]

Sorry trimmer! My fault.

Yep, you can always boost by adding more extract. Alexander's makes a 'kicker' for just this reason.

One thing though, an OG of 1.055 fully fermented (1.010ish) should come out around 4 to 5% ABV.

 

[Trimmer]

Is it OG-FG X 131? I look up the Alexander!
Thanks!

 

[rorygilmore]

I would do the full boil if you have a wort chiller. It would probably take several hours to get 5 gallons down to the correct pitching temperature with just an ice bath.

 

[Marko73]

Is it OG-FG X 131? I look up the Alexander!
Thanks!

Bingo!

 

[Trimmer]

I do have a 50' wort chiller. Like I said before I really want too increase the ABV on this 2.5% ABV kit. I should have chosen a higher ABV kit, but it is too late to that.

I was going to buy 3.2 lbs of same malt that is in the recipe and buy 50% more of each hops that the recipe calls for. hopsville says that will give me a BU:GU of .68. Am I overlooking anything? Also I was going to get some Irish Moss as well.

 

[Yooper]

I do have a 50' wort chiller. Like I said before I really want too increase the ABV on this 2.5% ABV kit. I should have chosen a higher ABV kit, but it is too late to that.

I was going to buy 3.2 lbs of same malt that is in the recipe and buy 50% more of each hops that the recipe calls for. hopsville says that will give me a BU:GU of .68. Am I overlooking anything? Also I was going to get some Irish Moss as well.

Well, my thought is to not just add more hops and malt. I'd look at the whole recipe, and consider scaling it up to a higher ABV if that's your desire. Just adding more hops might not give you the results you are looking for. You want a hoppier beer? More ABV? What about the actual beer style you started with- the Irish red? Adding more malt and hops will lower the % of specialty grain and give you a different beer. I guess I'm not much of a fan of messing with a good recipe.

Doing full boil is a great idea, and will improve the beer. Messing with the malt bill and then throwing more hops in it might not be.

 

[Shinglejohn]

Trimmer,

whats the recipe? what are you trying to end up with? We can help you formulate a new recipe, but dont blindly add ingredients(or do, thats how i learned. But its soooo much easier if you listen to yooper, revvy, and some of the others that respond to every post).

 

[Marko73]

Trimmer, once you start adding more hops you will basically be making a different kind of beer. The ABV of that recipe is around 4% according in NB. If you make large malt adjustments (over a pound) and hop adjustments, you will be making a different style of beer at that point.

I wouldn't adjust things too much if you want to stay true to the recipe. 50% more hops is big adjustment.

But if you want to expirement I would, just realize that it will be different from a Red Ale at that point. NB has some pretty proven recipes so you might want to just do a full boil and adjust the bittering hops.

Where are you gettting 2.5% ABV?

 

[snowman]

I have made this kit and it is excellent per instructions. I also have a 10 gal pot and have tried both ways for the boil, went back to boiling about 3 gal as it takes way less time and adding another 2 gal water speeds the cool down and you won't notice the difference. If you want a bit more alcohol try .6 lb of honey or corn sugar or brown sugar at the last couple minutes of the boil, stay at or under 10% of the malt weight.

 

[Trimmer]

Thanks everyone!

I am going to take all of the advise I have received and stick with the original recipe that NB calls for, but do a full boil. My math on the 2.5 % ABV must have been wrong. Yooper, I didn't even think about the grains! Thanks
I will let you know how it turns out.

 

[pivovar]

Thanks everyone!

I am going to take all of the advise I have received and stick with the original recipe that NB calls for, but do a full boil. My math on the 2.5 % ABV must have been wrong. Yooper, I didn't even think about the grains! Thanks
I will let you know how it turns out.

Your math doesn't seem to add up. 6# of LME in 5 gallons will give you OG of 1.043. Together with the grains it should be ~1.048 and your ABV then would be ~4.7%. The difference in IBUs with this gravity, if you boil full volume vs. just boiling 2.5 gal, is about 10 IBUs. (29 vs. 19). By style the range for Irish Red is 17-29, so either way is fine (if you care about the guidelines.) I would probably boil the full volume and use all the hops for a bit more bite.