Secondaries and Additives

[Iowa Brewer]

Been brewing for over 2yrs now and have never transferred to a secondary. With today's superior yeasts it's always seemed like a good way to introduce O2, an infection, or both. That said, I'm doing AHA's Rogue Chocolate Stout clone and it states that after a week in the primary I should put the chocolate extract in a secondary and transfer the beer over it and let sit until FG is achieved.
Should I do this?
I could see how having the beer flow over the extract would mix it in well, but will my beer turn out differently than if I just put some extract in my primary and give it a good shake?
Thanks, all!

 

[day_trippr]

I would definitely avoid using a second fermentor just for a liquid addition.
If you are kegging, add the extract to the keg before racking on top.
If you are bottling, add the extract to the bottling bucket.

Plus, extracts don't improve with age, they fade. So holding them 'til the end is the better method, imo...

Cheers!

 

[RM-MN]

At the end of 3 or 4 weeks in the primary fermenter, start transferring your beer to the bottling bucket (presuming you bottle) and then add the priming sugar mix and the extract. Use a sanitary spoon to do a careful stir to ensure complete mixing. Bottle it up and wait. I find that stouts taste better with 3 to 6 months in the bottle than they do with the recommended 3 weeks. YMMV

 

[Iowa Brewer]

I would definitely avoid using a second fermentor just for a liquid addition.
If you are kegging, add the extract to the keg before racking on top.
If you are bottling, add the extract to the bottling bucket.

Plus, extracts don't improve with age, they fade. So holding them 'til the end is the better method, imo...

Cheers!

Great idea, day_trippr! I'll add the extract to the keg.
Any idea why the recipe has it only 1 week on the yeast? I'm inclined to leave it on for a month to clean things up.

 

[Iowa Brewer]

At the end of 3 or 4 weeks in the primary fermenter, start transferring your beer to the bottling bucket (presuming you bottle) and then add the priming sugar mix and the extract. Use a sanitary spoon to do a careful stir to ensure complete mixing. Bottle it up and wait. I find that stouts taste better with 3 to 6 months in the bottle than they do with the recommended 3 weeks. YMMV

Cheers, RM-MN! I keg, but this is very helpful. Yes, I find the same with stouts. Waiting's the hardest part! I often put the keg on before the time is up and take it slow with the drinking. Right when it hits 3mo is where things start getting really good!

 

[day_trippr]

Great idea, day_trippr! I'll add the extract to the keg.
Any idea why the recipe has it only 1 week on the yeast? I'm inclined to leave it on for a month to clean things up.

[shrug] seems like a basic strategic error from here. Even without knowing the OG for your stout I'd let the primary run for at least two weeks and go from there...

Cheers!

 

[Iowa Brewer]

[shrug] seems like a basic strategic error from here. Even without knowing the OG for your stout I'd let the primary run for at least two weeks and go from there...

Cheers!

That's what I thought, too. Especially with an OG of 1.068.

 

[jrgtr42]

Any idea why the recipe has it only 1 week on the yeast? I'm inclined to leave it on for a month to clean things up.

I don't know that you need a month in primary, but yes, most of us find that a week is too short (or at least borderline. There are a few here who go for speed brewing, just a few days from grain to glass... but I've never succeeded at that.)
I think instructions calling for a week in primary are going by the old thoughts that you need to secondary to clear things out.
There;s a couple reasons for this - back in the day yeast wouldn't settle as much, so it was good to get it off the primary cake as soon as possible to allow more to settle. Plus there were worries about autolosys |(spelling might be wrong there...) basically it's the decomposition of dead yeast, which cause undesirable off-flavors.
More research has shown that this isn't an issue at homebrew scale - it is something to worry about when you're doing tens of thousands of gallons at a time in huge fermenters - it has to do with the pressure involved at the bottom.

 

[Jag75]

I think a lot of those recipes and instructions call for secondary. It was how I was taught to brew . I learned from an old school brewer. I think that autolysis was the big hype . I believe its been debunked in homebrewing . Its a different story when your brewing 7bbl batches that are sitting on a yeast cake .

I always leave my beer in the fermenter for 3 weeks before I package . I haven't done a secondary even when using fruit for a while and its been no problems .

 

[day_trippr]

There are lots of ways brewers have gotten wiser, and avoiding the oxygen damage from unnecessary racking is a biggy.

I doubt yeast strains were much different "back then" when Papazian and Co were advocating traditional methods; but I agree there was an irrational fear of yeast autolysis back then, which likely inspired the notion of getting the beer off the cake sooner than later. And there was an equally irrational belief that taking the beer off the cake would make it "clear" faster.

Blessedly, we're smarter than that now

Cheers!

 

[Iowa Brewer]

I don't know that you need a month in primary, but yes, most of us find that a week is too short (or at least borderline. There are a few here who go for speed brewing, just a few days from grain to glass... but I've never succeeded at that.)
I think instructions calling for a week in primary are going by the old thoughts that you need to secondary to clear things out.
There;s a couple reasons for this - back in the day yeast wouldn't settle as much, so it was good to get it off the primary cake as soon as possible to allow more to settle. Plus there were worries about autolosys |(spelling might be wrong there...) basically it's the decomposition of dead yeast, which cause undesirable off-flavors.
More research has shown that this isn't an issue at homebrew scale - it is something to worry about when you're doing tens of thousands of gallons at a time in huge fermenters - it has to do with the pressure involved at the bottom.

Thanks, jrgtr42! This is really helpful info. Yes, I'd been reading about new views on yeast (and better produced yeast for homebrew than in, say, the 70s when some were using bakers yeast. Sounds good!

 

[Iowa Brewer]

I haven't done a secondary even when using fruit for a while and its been no problems .

Cheers!

 

[Iowa Brewer]

There are lots of ways brewers have gotten wiser, and avoiding the oxygen damage from unnecessary racking is a biggy.

I doubt yeast strains were much different "back then" when Papazian and Co were advocating traditional methods; but I agree there was an irrational fear of yeast autolysis back then, which likely inspired the notion of getting the beer off the cake sooner than later. And there was an equally irrational belief that taking the beer off the cake would make it "clear" faster.

Blessedly, we're smarter than that now

Cheers!

Cheers!