Scorched Wort, Dump or Finish?

[JLeather]

Had a first last night. Managed to scorch some wort on a stovetop with a 1500w burner. I believe it's because my hop spider sat almost on the bottom of my kettle and must have trapped a small pocket of wort underneath? The burned patch was right in that area. I think I'll switch to one of those hop spider bag arrangements in the future. For this batch, however, should I spend the dry hops and time on it or toss it out now and start something else? I can taste a faint burnt flavor, and it's an APA so there's not much for it to hide behind. No burned smell, no color change. Will it get worse or better as it ferments/ages?

 

[tracer bullet]

Not sure on it changing flavor, but in case it isn't obvious, check if your hop spider can be bent differently to a little to hang higher. I had to do that with mine, but it did have a hanging mechanism that allowed it.

 

[sibelman]

Instead of dumping, you could steep some dark malt, boil & chill the resulting roasty liquid, and turn your damaged APA into a stout.

 

[IslandLizard]

I can taste a faint burnt flavor

Like ash/smoke or more like overly caramelized?

In the latter case, let it ferment, and taste a sample before dry hopping. Make your decision to go forward then.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I tried resting my ss spider on the bk bottom once and it left a matching scorch under it.
File under "Don't do that"
Cheers!

 

[JLeather]

fwiw, I tried resting my ss spider on the bk bottom once and it left a matching scorch under it.
File under "Don't do that"
Cheers!

Lol, yep, that's basically what happened. It's soaking in PBW now so I can scrub it off.

Like ash/smoke or more like overly caramelized?

In the latter case, let it ferment, and taste a sample before dry hopping. Make your decision to go forward then.

Definitely smokey.

 

[BBBF]

Will it get worse or better as it ferments/ages?

It will only become more noticeable once the sweetness ferments away. Maybe it is light enough you can still find it drinkable. Pitch the yeast if you want to gamble, but I would save the dry hops for another batch or at try a sample before adding them.

 

[Vale71]

Scorched wort = might be drinkable
Scorched mash = dump right away!

 

[jtratcliff]

"Burnt Offerings" APA...

 

[MikeCo]

Scorched wort = might be drinkable
Scorched mash = dump right away!

Not always. A friend and I brewed a tripel and found we had scorched the bottom of the mash tun pretty badly after having stuck mash problems with recirculating. We didn't know it was scorched until after we started the boil and went to dump the grain from the mash tun. The beer turned out great but was a little darker than intended.

 

[JLeather]

Well fate may have intervened. Almost 48 hours now with no airlock activity with my always reliable US-05. I'll take a gravity reading tomorrow, but if it's not going anywhere I'm not repitching and it's going down the drain.

 

[JLeather]

72 hours, no activity. This one's going down the drain tonight. I will take a gravity reading and a taste, though, in the interest of science...

 

[Vale71]

Not always. A friend and I brewed a tripel and found we had scorched the bottom of the mash tun pretty badly after having stuck mash problems with recirculating. We didn't know it was scorched until after we started the boil and went to dump the grain from the mash tun. The beer turned out great but was a little darker than intended.

I assume you were using a false bottom so you just scorched the wort. If you had actually scorched the mash you wouldn't have dared touch it with a stick afterwards, except to dump it of course...

 

[IslandLizard]

Almost 48 hours now with no airlock activity

Although it depends on the fermenter, generally don't judge fermentation by airlock activity. A bad sealing lid can prevent the airlock from ever bubbling.
Small bubbles and krausen/foam forming is a better, more reliable tell tale. So is drop in gravity, although it may be minimal during the first few days. 72 hours is too soon to tell in most cases.

Let it be, what you got to loose?

 

[JLeather]

It's in a 10 gallon corney keg. I've never had one this inactive that was actually doing anything, but there's a first time for everything I suppose. For comparison I brewed an ESB last night, same process (minus the scorched spot in the kettle), pitched a dry pack of Lalbrew ESB yeast, and this morning it's bubbling along furiously.

I'll take a gravity reading and a taste soon I suppose. Purely in the interest of science

 

[JLeather]

Well the plot thickens. I actually forgot to take a gravity reading on that APA and before I knew it I'd had it in the primary for almost 2 weeks. Pulled a sample today and it had in fact attentuated down to 1.012 in spite of absolutely 0 airlock activity. Popped the lid to dry-hop and found this:

I'm going to venture that this one is infected, and given the strange lack of any airlock activity I'm guessing I got a bad air leak in this fermenter somewhere which explains both end results. I will say that it doesn't taste or smell odd, especially since I fermenting in a corney means my samples come from the bottom. How should I proceed with this? I opted not to waste the hops yet til I figure out what's going on. I could rack it off into a 5 gallon keg, dry hop in there, and probably miss most of the film if I don't disturb it? Or is it not worth the risk of contaminating another keg and the lines/tap in my kegerator?

Side note, I cannot taste the scorch flavor

 

[day_trippr]

Awesome! Book it! FOR SCIENCE!

Don't dump it yet. I would be the least qualified to tell you what manner of wee beastie is at work/play there, but from all I've read here on HBT over the years sometimes they make wonderful beer. Given it's not throwing off-putting aromas you might try pulling a small taste from under the pellicle. And if it seems ok, let it ride and see where it goes...

Cheers!

 

[JLeather]

I think what I'll do is kick it over into a purged serving keg that I know seals, since I'm concerned about the lack of airlock activity. I'll dry hop it for the intended 7 days with a suspended bag, and then pull it and leave the whole thing for a while and see what happens.

 

[tracer bullet]

Well, taste it first, to be sure you don't waste any hops. Just in case. If it's awful, may as well know now. But agreed it could be great.

 

[JLeather]

Well, taste it first, to be sure you don't waste any hops. Just in case. If it's awful, may as well know now. But agreed it could be great.

I tasted the FG sample that I pulled. It was largely trub, thanks to the dip-tube, so it wasn't exactly delicious but it didn't smell or taste noticeably bad. Decent enough to justify a couple more ounces of hops at any rate.

 

[JLeather]

First full pour tonight. This batch had one last frustration for me. It spent a full week in the kegerator at 25 psi and would not get carbed properly, but it finally came around. Tastes good. The scorch smell/flavor is almost entirely gone. There's a very mild twang from the pellicle. Probably could have gotten more sour if I'd left it, but again I'm not a big sour guy. I harvested the yeast cake in case I want to try this again, still on the fence, but I will enjoy all 5 gallons of it in the mean time.

 

[day_trippr]

After all the tribulations that ended up being a pretty beer

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

Indeed, that beer looks yummy good. Glad to hear that nasty scorch flavor is mostly gone.

If it's still a tad too sour you could add some bicarbonate (baking soda) to a glass. If you have Potassium Bicarbonate, use it over the Sodium Bicarbonate (baking powder soda), because it's more neutral in flavor. That is, unless you're on a Potassium intake restriction. But you could experiment by adding small amounts of regular baking powder soda. It gets better first, until the salt (Sodium) starts to overpower and become obnoxious.

Just a little table salt can also help taking the sour edge off. Just a dash.

 

[JLeather]

I'll keep that in mind. As long as it doesn't get more sour I like it the way it is. This continues to be an interesting experiment.

 

[JLeather]

Well, it appears I have a contaminant somewhere still, unless this is a coincidence:

I made a clean IPA without issues after the pellicle and thought I was in the clear, but last night I found this on my Imperial Stout. It spent 2-3 weeks in the primary without a problem, and this is (I think) week 3 in the secondary. I know there's too much headspace which may have exacerbated this issue, but I was still disappointed to find this. At this point I'm tossing all my tubing and fittings on the brew side (I ferment in a corney so I transfer with ball-locks and take gravity samples with a picnic tap) and scrubbing all my stainless again. On the plus side this beer still has a good month to go before I was gonna try it so let's see what happens!

 

[IslandLizard]

I made a clean IPA without issues after the pellicle and thought I was in the clear, but last night I found this on my Imperial Stout. It spent 2-3 weeks in the primary without a problem, and this is (I think) week 3 in the secondary. I know there's too much headspace which may have exacerbated this issue, but I was still disappointed to find this. At this point I'm tossing all my tubing and fittings on the brew side (I ferment in a corney so I transfer with ball-locks and take gravity samples with a picnic tap) and scrubbing all my stainless again. On the plus side this beer still has a good month to go before I was gonna try it so let's see what happens!

Crap!
Is that in a keg, used as a secondary?
Same one the infected IPA was in?

You would only need to replace tubing on the cold side. Anything exposed to boiling wort should be safe. Won't hurt to check and do some extra cleaning/boiling.

Have you taken apart and cleaned/inspected the kettle valve? Although it gets near boiling, Pedio is known to hang out in there, and survive somehow. Any black, tarry deposits are suspect, they can hide in the valve's ball chamber.
Also beware with kegs, there are nooks and crannies where bugs can hide. As well as o-rings, and the PRV.

 

[JLeather]

This is actually a glass carboy secondary that I've never used before (recent hand-me-down from a friend). I didn't see anything in primary when I transferred it. I have not disassembled my kettle valve yet, not a bad idea.

 

[IslandLizard]

This is actually a glass carboy secondary that I've never used before (recent hand-me-down from a friend). I didn't see anything in primary when I transferred it. I have not disassembled my kettle valve yet, not a bad idea.

Secondaries always carry a real risk of oxidation, infection, and even stalled fermentations.
Why are you using them?

Secondaries are rarely beneficial, you can leave your beer in the "primary," on the yeast and trub, for at least 6-8 weeks, until ready to package. There are very few exceptions, but for most beer, secondaries are not needed, skip em.
Kit and brew instructions tenaciously include "rack to secondary after xx days [...]" for no good reason.

 

[JLeather]

I wanted my fermenter back for another beer, and being a 10.2% stout this won't be really drinkable for at least another month or two. If I make another big stout I'll probably not ferment in one of my regular corneys and just put it straight in a carboy.

 

[IslandLizard]

I wanted my fermenter back for another beer, and being a 10.2% stout this won't be really drinkable for at least another month or two. If I make another big stout I'll probably not ferment in one of my regular corneys and just put it straight in a carboy.

Yeah, bulk aging/conditioning big beers is a notable exception where a secondary may be useful. But, it's not a casual or a beginning brewer technique. One must select a suitable secondary vessel, one that's impervious to oxygen, leaves very small headspace when filled, and ideally can be pre-purged with CO2.

Corneys (kegs in general) make excellent secondaries!
Especially when 100% liquid pre-purged and filling them through the liquid post, as you would transfer an IPA (or any other beer) to a serving keg. 3/4 filled carboys, not so.

I've bulk aged an Imperial Pumpkin Ale that way, in a keg in my utility room for a year.

 

[Vale71]

This is actually a glass carboy secondary that I've never used before (recent hand-me-down from a friend). I didn't see anything in primary when I transferred it. I have not disassembled my kettle valve yet, not a bad idea.

The fact you didn't see anything when transferring doesn't necessarily mean that the infection occurred in the secondary vessel. Pellicles are formed when aerobic organisms collect at the surface when there is oxygen available in the headspace but the organism responsible could already have been there in primary but simply didn't have the time to form a pellicle or there was no oxygen in the primary's headspace. In practice this means you need to sanitize/replace any possible source of infection cold-side, regardless of at which step the infection became apparent.

 

[JLeather]

Yeah, bulk aging/conditioning big beers is a notable exception where a secondary may be useful. But, it's not a casual or a beginning brewer technique. One must select a suitable secondary vessel, one that's impervious to oxygen, leaves very small headspace when filled, and ideally can be pre-purged with CO2.

Corneys (kegs in general) make excellent secondaries!
Especially when 100% liquid pre-purged and filling them through the liquid post, as you would transfer an IPA (or any other beer) to a serving keg. 3/4 filled carboys, not so.

I've bulk aged an Imperial Pumpkin Ale that way, in a keg in my utility room for a year.

I did purge with CO2 (as well as possible for a carboy anyway) and I filled it bottom-up through a hose to push the CO2 up and out, but I did have way too much head space...

 

[Tyler B]

I just stumbled on this thread... The only time I've ever dumped a batch was after I found some mold on the valve of my fermenting bucket (with lots of head space) which was used as a secondary. The batch was oxidized, smelled off, and didn't look right. The only time I've ever grown a pellicle (outside of kombucha) was when I was trying to step up/grow Chimay yeast from bottle dregs.

I've since stopped using secondary and exclusively direct pitch dry yeast. I haven't had a single problem since these changes and I don't intend to go back any time soon. Of course I can't get liquid yeast here so that limits my options. If I was you I'd try to avoid secondary fermenters. It's one thing to have one pleasant unplanned surprise sour. It's entirely different when every other brew turns in to a surprise sour. I bulk age in purged corny kegs and seem to be having success.

Also, if where you live is anything like where I live, it's rainy season and there seems to be mold everywhere. That might be part of the problem? If that's the case, a dehumidifier might help. I'm worried one of my recent batches will become infected.

I love RIS so I hope that one turns out OK for you. Best of luck!

 

[IslandLizard]

I did purge with CO2 (as well as possible for a carboy anyway) and I filled it bottom-up through a hose to push the CO2 up and out, but I did have way too much head space...

Using a carboy cap you could 100% liquid pre-purge a carboy.
Then refill it with the beer through the same cane.
Just sad to see something sneaked in at some point.
I would taste it, and if good, transfer to a keg, stick in keezer keep it cold to slow down the infection and enjoy it now.

On a side note, I've had sour Imperial Stouts that were exquisite, although none were intended as such.

Are you using Starsan for sanitizer?

 

[JLeather]

Using a carboy cap you could 100% liquid pre-purge a carboy.
Then refill it with the beer through the same cane.
Just sad to see something sneaked in at some point.
I would taste it, and if good, transfer to a keg, stick in keezer keep it cold to slow down the infection and enjoy it now.

On a side note, I've had sour Imperial Stouts that were exquisite, although none were intended as such.

Are you using Starsan for sanitizer?

How do you liquid purge a car boy? I just dropped a hose in the bottom of the empty/sanitized carboy and let a slow stream of CO2 in for a bit.

StarSan for things like this, SaniClean in my "brublaster" keg washer.

Smell is fine, I'll give it a while before a taste.

 

[IslandLizard]

How do you liquid purge a car boy? I just dropped a hose in the bottom of the empty/sanitized carboy and let a slow stream of CO2 in for a bit.

While blowing in CO2, gases mix freely. You reduce the air, increasing CO2 content, but there's always O2 left.

Liquid purge (secondary) carboy:
Carboy cap, racking cane in center, CO2 on the side teat.
Fill carboy with Starsan (or water), push the Starsan out with CO2, under very low pressure (<3 psi). When empty, leave cap and cane.

Use a closed transfer if possible.
Rack beer from fermenter into the pre-purged, now 100% CO2 filled, secondary carboy, either by pushing it with CO2 using a racking cane, or a siphon.
That way you avoid (or at least limit) air/O2 exposure, and the secondary should contain very little or no O2 after the procedure.