Saving All Hops for Dry Hop

[langdonk1]

Has anyone heard of or tried saving all of their hops for dry hop only? Maybe only adding a bittering addition. If so, would love to hear stories and experiences. What to expect?

 

[Conan]

It'd be similar to doing a 60 minute and flame out addition, but more aroma. Think of an APA that has some bittering and a whole bunch of nose, but isn't a hop bomb. None come to mind but I also don't know many commercial beers well.
How many ounces do you mean when you say 'all'? Like an IPA, or a Wit? The Wit would be better suited in my opinion since it doesn't rely on hops for much flavor and a full palate. You'd also likely get more vegetables and less hop smell from the dry hop (I think...just got up and may have my utilization reversed). Kyle

 

[GCPHomebrew]

Done it. Awesome beer. .5-1 oz bittering or FWH or mash then 5oz dry hop. Amazing beer


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[stickyfinger]

Has anyone heard of or tried saving all of their hops for dry hop only? Maybe only adding a bittering addition. If so, would love to hear stories and experiences. What to expect?

I'm also wondering if the hop additions at the end of the boil or in whirlpool are really as good of a use of hops as the dry hop. I've done a beer with 6 oz in whirlpool, and I think if I had added 6 oz just in dry hop, it would have been a much hoppier beer.

 

[GCPHomebrew]

Agree with you sticky finger. I'm dry hopping in the keg for the next few batches to see if that adds even more flavor

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

Not being a serious hophead, I've mostly done fairly light (1-2 oz) dry hop loads before, but as I understand it, there would eventually be a limit to the amount of aroma you'd get. I have no idea where that limit would be, and I imagine it would be more a matter of diminishing returns than a sharp cut-off - that the more you add, the less effect it has for the amount. As for the vegetal quality versus floral/resiny/fruity qualities, I think that's usually ascribed more to the duration of the dry hopping than to the amount.

The other thing to keep in mind is that you'd get almost no bittering or hop flavor from the dry hopping, just aroma. With hops in the boil, even at flame-out, there's some bitterness contribution, and some flavor contribution if it is less than 30 minutes or so. Adding a massive hop burst at flame-out, or a really large dry hop load, would give lots of aroma but nothing else - so it becomes a matter of, what hop characteristics do you want to emphasize?

On the other end of the boil, I have used FWH often, and IME, when done right (i.e., adding the hops after vorlauf but before the rest of the sparge, and holding for at least twenty minutes at mash-out temperatures), FWH can give a significant amount of both bittering and flavor, but I mostly use low-alpha hops as a matter of course, and the consensus is that it really seems to only work well with low-alpha hops (noble hops or strains usually described as aroma hops) - higher alpha hops tend to give make it harsher rather than smoother, though I don't know if it is the alpha-acids that are responsible for that or if it is the other hop oil resins. Also, the bittering tends to be less sharp and more rounded and mellow, which is fine in, say, a ESB or a Pilsener, but might seem out of place in an American IPA or a DIPA. It might work well in addition to a full boil rather than as a substitute for one, though.

 

[Smellyglove]

This thread somewhat taps into your question:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=522474

 

[stickyfinger]

floral/resiny/fruity qualities, I think that's usually ascribed more to the duration of the dry hopping than to the amount.

The longest i've gone thus far is about 17 days of dry hops, and I didn't get any unpleasant vegetal character, or maybe it was swamped by the hoppy goodness! it probably depends on the temperature, type of hop and who knows what other parameters.

The other thing to keep in mind is that you'd get almost no bittering or hop flavor from the dry hopping, just aroma.

Dry hopping definitely seems to contribute to bitterness in my opinion. it must be due to the vegetable matter in the hops; i'm not sure. it's not IBUs, but it is bitterness. I'd still plan for a charge of bittering hops at 60 mins and then load with dry hops as an experiment. I'm not really all that interested in bitterness anyway. some people love it, but I just want really delicious hoppiness.

i don't really understand the argument that dry hopping only gives aroma. all flavor is aroma unless it is the classic flavor components you can taste (ie bitterness, sweetness, salt, etc.) that said, maybe there is something to how the hop resins are delivered to the nose depending on how they are chemically altered by yeast or in the brewing process.

I'll have to try the FWH sometime, but I am skeptical.

 

[stickyfinger]

This thread somewhat taps into your question:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=522474

thanks! that's a short but very appropriate thread. one thing i know is that i haven't been impressed with beers that are hopped in the last 20 minutes to knockout and then chilled quickly. i have liked whirlpooled beers and dry hopped beers. i'm starting to think (as many have said) that the whirlpooled and dry hopped beers are the best use of hops. i'm still wondering if the whirlpooled character of a beer made with x ounces of whirlpooled + x ounces of dry hopped wort would be more desirable to me than a beer made with no whirlpool hops and 2x ounces of dry hops. i think i'll try that experiment, as it uses the same amount of hops (so the same cost/batch for hopping) but gives me an idea if the whirlpool character makes the beer better than just using the fresh dry hop character to the max.

 

[joshesmusica]

Honestly I read the title and thought, what an idiot, you'd get no bitterness from it.
But now I'm just curious what it would be like if you only did a dry hop. So curious that I'm thinking of experimenting with it! Literally nothing in the boil.

 

[Smellyglove]

The longest i've gone thus far is about 17 days of dry hops, and I didn't get any unpleasant vegetal character, or maybe it was swamped by the hoppy goodness! it probably depends on the temperature, type of hop and who knows what other parameters.

Dry hopping definitely seems to contribute to bitterness in my opinion. it must be due to the vegetable matter in the hops; i'm not sure. it's not IBUs, but it is bitterness. I'd still plan for a charge of bittering hops at 60 mins and then load with dry hops as an experiment. I'm not really all that interested in bitterness anyway. some people love it, but I just want really delicious hoppiness.

i don't really understand the argument that dry hopping only gives aroma. all flavor is aroma unless it is the classic flavor components you can taste (ie bitterness, sweetness, salt, etc.) that said, maybe there is something to how the hop resins are delivered to the nose depending on how they are chemically altered by yeast or in the brewing process.

I'll have to try the FWH sometime, but I am skeptical.

Dry hopping does definitely not only give aroma, it adds taste too. I guess it's some sort of "old consensus" that it only gives aroma. You can and will taste the dryhop additions.

And when it comes to bitterness. Theoretically it should not give more bitterness, and if you do it again and again and again I think you would agree that it doesn't add bitterness.. But, you get tannins. Tannins can be felt like bitterness, but it isn't directly bitterness. The longer the beer sits in it's package, the less you get of this if you pour gently, they will drop out to the bottom of the bottle/keg.

IMO those tannins can taste great in an IPA. In my mind the best IPA I've ever had (having) are those which are less than 12 hrs old, so all that stuff is still in suspension. If I let the keg sit, and forget to flip it over before serving that first glass tastes excellent, but all the good stuff which has settled on the bottom goes into that one glass, after that it's just "ok" since there's no more of that stuff left.

 

[stickyfinger]

Dry hopping does definitely not only give aroma, it adds taste too. I guess it's some sort of "old consensus" that it only gives aroma. You can and will taste the dryhop additions.


And when it comes to bitterness. Theoretically it should not give more bitterness, and if you do it again and again and again I think you would agree that it doesn't add bitterness.. But, you get tannins. Tannins can be felt like bitterness, but it isn't directly bitterness. The longer the beer sits in it's package, the less you get of this if you pour gently, they will drop out to the bottom of the bottle/keg.

Tannins are a bitter compound, so that is bitterness. You can only taste salt, sweet, bitter, umami and pain (hot spice), so I would argue we are getting bitterness from the dry hopping. It's just not due to isomerized alpha acids. It does fade as the beer ages, as you say. I think IBUs fade less quickly than the dry hop "tannin" bitterness. i also find it pleasant in an IPA (especially when I know the hoppy goodness comes hand in hand with it.)

 

[Smellyglove]

Tannins are a bitter compound, so that is bitterness. You can only taste salt, sweet, bitter, umami and pain (hot spice), so I would argue we are getting bitterness from the dry hopping. It's just not due to isomerized alpha acids. It does fade as the beer ages, as you say. I think IBUs fade less quickly than the dry hop "tannin" bitterness. i also find it pleasant in an IPA (especially when I know the hoppy goodness comes hand in hand with it.)

I agree. What i was trying to say is that those tannins are not the type of bitterness as in bittering-hops-bitterness. They do taste different. Tannin-bitterness is..um temporary, until you get those compounds out of the beer (fall to the bottom of a bottle and not pour the dregs, or letting a keg sit for three days and drain off all that stuff that has been accumulated at the bottom).

 

[stickyfinger]

I agree. What i was trying to say is that those tannins are not the type of bitterness as in bittering-hops-bitterness. They do taste different. Tannin-bitterness is..um temporary, until you get those compounds out of the beer (fall to the bottom of a bottle and not pour the dregs, or letting a keg sit for three days and drain off all that stuff that has been accumulated at the bottom).

that makes sense. it's not a super puckering tannin from the dry hops though, but it is maybe different from a solid wallop of IBU bitterness. Interesting how bitterness can change depending on the hop and the process.

 

[Smellyglove]

No, IMO it's not necessarily bad, in an IPA they are great. In an english mild they just would kill the beer. In an IPA its sort of something "more".

 

[GCPHomebrew]

Dry hopping does bitter. It's called perceived bitterness. Not measure able as ibu, but anyone who has added 4 oz of citra or centennial or really any punch in the face hops can tell you the bitter is there. I add a battering a edition and 1-2 oz at flameout. I then dryhop all beers.