Safbrew WB-06 for a Belgian Golden Strong ale

[Zambezi Special]

my knowledge that the Eszet letter (ß) is pronounced like S.

As far as I remember from taking German at school (compulsary) it's a "Ringel S" and can be replaced by "ss".
Necessary as there were no pc's and word processing programms. Just type writers

Other tit-but, but off topic
France and also Germany uses different keyboards.
Azerty for France (and part of Belgium).
Qwertz for Germany if I'm not mistaken

 

[Protos]

Qwertz for Germany if I'm not mistaken

Absolutely not mistaken. QWERTZ for German and also for the closest eastern neighbours of German language: Polish, Czech, Slowak, Hungarian, Romanian. I think, for Jugoslavia too, but not so sure.
The real keyboard porn comes when you deal with an old Latvian typewriter: the keyboard layout is ŪGJRMV. It's rarely used now, though.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm only 1/4 part German and my English and German are pretty rusty too, and I don't know a single hieroglyph (I do read and write the Arabic script, does that count?) but I just can't prevent myself from bragging my knowledge that the Eszet letter (ß) is pronounced like S.

I'm open to be corrected if I'm wrong.

UPD:
Sorry, I recalled, I know a single hieroglyph.
It's "茶", that means "Tea".

That is correct.

There's a difference which Miraculix has referenced above. However similar meanings both names might bear, in German they mean different styles: Weissbier aka Weizenbier aka Hefeweizen is the "common" top-fermented German Wheat Beer while Weisse is a rare regional sour ultralight wheat beer from Berlin.

Fermentis uses "Weisse" as the official English name for the German Wheat Beer (Weissbier) style in their brochure, which is grossly incorrect, as the diastatic WB-06 stands very far from the yeasts traditionally used both for Weissbier and for Weisse.
Here my German expertise ends, let's wait till Miraculix comes to elucidate the question further.

That is also correct.

As far as I remember from taking German at school (compulsary) it's a "Ringel S" and can be replaced by "ss".
Necessary as there were no pc's and word processing programms. Just type writers

Other tit-but, but off topic
France and also Germany uses different keyboards.
Azerty for France (and part of Belgium).
Qwertz for Germany if I'm not mistaken

It's more complicated, especially as the German official grammar regarding ß always changes. We got s, we got ss and we got ß, all pronounced mainly the same, except s, which can be pronounced in two ways, which the others cannot. The others are always a "sharp" s, s can be sharp or soft. I think there's only a sharp s in English, so I cannot describe you a soft one. Listen to the wort sand in German and then in English, same spelling, same meaning, different s pronunciation.

Got one, sharp s is like a snake hissing, soft s more like the sound of a bee flying around.

If there's no ß available, it's common to replace it with ss, that is correct.

 

[Protos]

I think there's only a sharp s in English, so I cannot describe you a soft one. Listen to the wort sand in German and then in English, same spelling, same meaning, different s pronunciation.

<bragging linguistic knowledge started>

As far as I understand the difference, the "sharp s" sounds like the English s in the word sand [send] and the "soft s" sounds like the English s in the word rose [rouz]. The difference could be very meaningful, like for example, between reisen [raizen] (to travel) against reißen [raisen] (to tear).

Weißbier (=Weissbier) is read like [waisbir], and if it was spelled "Weisbier", without the ß or ss, it should be read like [waizbir] which would sound ridiculous.

</bragging linguistic knowledge finished>

 

[Protos]

I've gone from thinking I'd knock out a quick-and-dirty beer to kind of obsessing over it now.

Oh no, nothing like a quick-n-dirty beer! It's a very important experiment, that's why the hopes of many here are vested in your brewing project.
It's no joke, to find the proper use for a yeast everyone has tried but noone has been satisfied with the results.

 

[Miraculix]

<bragging linguistic knowledge started>

As far as I understand the difference, the "sharp s" sounds like the English s in the word sand [send] and the "soft s" sounds like the English s in the word rose [rouz]. The difference could be very meaningful, like for example, between reisen [raizen] (to travel) against reißen [raisen] (to tear).

Weißbier (=Weissbier) is read like [waisbir], and if it was spelled "Weisbier", without the ß or ss, it should be read like [waizbir] which would sound ridiculous.

</bragging linguistic knowledge finished>

Sorry, the example doesn't really match.

Rosy, that's the soft s! There is a soft s in the English language after all!

 

[Protos]

That's what happens to them braggers: soonner or later they're humbled!
Frankly, I don't catch the difference between the s in English rose and rosy, they sound same to me.
I must have an awful pronounciaton then. Good this isn't a voice chat!

 

[rallenhall]

This discussion answers a lot of questions. Last spring I decided to do my summer hefeweizen with WB-06, hoping to find a suitable dry yeast rather than making liquid yeast starters. Did a double batch with a neighbor who kegged his and, once FG stabilized, I bottled mine in bombers with a normal amount of priming sugar. Beer was technically OK, but flavor was never right. Neighbor entered some in a local competition and judges commented that it didn't taste like a weissbier. In the meantime, my bombers slowly became bottle bombs and eventually all were opened and dumped. Lesson learned ... the 2023 version will return to a starter of WY3068.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Lesson learned ... the 2023 version will return to a starter of WY3068.

Lallemand Munich Classic (not the old simple "Munich", now rebranded as their wit yeast to avoid confusion) is a dry version of 3068 that's generally regarded as one of the better dry equivalents of a liquid yeast.

 

[Miraculix]

Lallemand Munich Classic (not the old simple "Munich", now rebranded as their wit yeast to avoid confusion) is a dry version of 3068 that's generally regarded as one of the better dry equivalents of a liquid yeast.

Finally an explanation where this dubious "lallemand witt" is coming from that everybody talks about, which I've never heard nor seen before...

 

[Protos]

That's the reason I still hesitate to try Lalbrew "Witbier" for a Wit.
Yesterday it was a Munich, now it is a Wit... And tomorrow, a "Northern Coast IPA"?
It seems they themselves aren't too sure which kind of yeast it is.
There's always something fishy about a radical change of identity.

 

[Mark yeah]

All this talk about Duvel reminded me that it has been a while since I tried one. It sure is a light colored and pretty beer! Could this be made with WB-06? Maybe. It is not a yeast dominated beer like many Belgians. I get classic noble hop character with a solid bitterness up front, with some bready pilsner malt character and I have to search a little to get yeast character. There is a little bit of fruity aroma and just a touch of phenolic character. Way too crushable for a 8.5% beer!

@Mark yeah: I am curious how your version will compare!

View attachment 792518

There is something Pilsner-like about Duvel, it's crisp and ridiculously drinkable. It's quite different to some of the better known tripels like Westmalle and Chimay White, definitely leaner and sharper. An outstanding beer!

 

[Pie11]

Lallemand munich classic is a very good yeast for hefeweizen. An more complex alternative is breed a hefeweizen bottle. This stile is not filtered and normally are not pastorised (at least in europe).
Lallemand wit is a decent witbier yeast, but is not fitted for hefeweizen.
Fermentis wb-06 is far from great for witbier, and is not fitted at all for hefeweizen.
Always on dry yeast for european wheat beers, k97 ans nottingham are very good for french biere blanche (that use a clean fermentation profile and has an hint of sweetness).
be-134 is well fitted for spelt or wheat biere de saison, where m29 or belle saison are far from decent.
All assertions are only my personal opinion on my personal experience.

 

[Miraculix]

Lallemand munich classic is a very good yeast for hefeweizen. An more complex alternative is breed a hefeweizen bottle. This stile is not filtered and normally are not pastorised (at least in europe).
Lallemand wit is a decent witbier yeast, but is not fitted for hefeweizen.
Fermentis wb-06 is far from great for witbier, and is not fitted at all for hefeweizen.
Always on dry yeast for european wheat beers, k97 ans nottingham are very good for french biere blanche (that use a clean fermentation profile and has an hint of sweetness).
be-134 is well fitted for spelt or wheat biere de saison, where m29 or belle saison are far from decent.
All assertions are only my personal opinion on my personal experience.

The problem with the european beers is, a lot of breweries bottle with a different yeast because their fermentation yeast is not powdery enough, so you get a different yeast from bottle propagation. The good thing is, Schneider seems to be using the same yeast through the whole process (and that's the one you want) .

 

[Pie11]

wit and hefeweizen are "juicy" stiles and historical brewery often uses only one yeast, that is the signature of the brewery.
Cask conditioning yeast gerally don't prolifeate on maltotriose filled petri dish.
Sta1+ yeast often proliferate very well on lin's agar.
It's quite easy to isolate a dry yeast from the cask conditionner, expcially sta1+

 

[Mark yeah]

So it's been 2 (of 3) weeks lagering, and I've had a thought. A direct comparison to Duvel might not be entirely fair for many reasons, so I've decided to brew another identical beer with WLP-570. I will include a bottle of Duvel in the tasting comparisons as a kind of control, but I expect my two to be somewhat different to the commercial version. I'm REALLY curious to see how WB-06 stacks up against WLP-570, and this is the only way to do it.

I've obtained the yeast and will be brewing this weekend, stay tuned for updates!

 

[Mark yeah]

Successfully brewed the clone yesterday, despite having caught COVID and feeling like a thousand angry wasps are stinging the back of my throat!

It hit all the right numbers, and took off like a rocket after making a vitality starter. The aroma is slightly fruity with bubblegum, not a lot of banana at this stage. I'll be ramping up the temp over the next few days so it will be interesting to see how the ferment compares to WB-06, which didn't stall or hiccup at all and powered through very consistently to its FG.

 

[Mark yeah]

The WB-06 batch has finished lagering, been filtered into a keg, and warmed to mid 20s Celsius. I collected the yeast from this ferment, cleaned it up a bit and made a small (250ml) dextrose starter to make sure it was OK for re-pitching. After an hour it was nicely active, so I pressure transferred it to the keg and added the rest of the dextrose required for 4 vols by the same method. Now I let it carb for a couple of weeks!
Below is a photo of the yeast starter and the dextrose, ready to be transferred to the keg.

 

[Pehlman17]

Following! Can't wait to hear how it turns out.

 

[Mark yeah]

The WLP-570 has finished fermenting, so I've put it in the fridge for its 3 week lager.

WB-06 has been at 25C in the keg for over a week now, I'll probably give it another week or two before conditioning. My biggest concern is it not carbonating and leaving a sickly mess of a beer. However the two control bottles have firmed up nicely, so I'm fairly confident it's all going to plan.

 

[Mark yeah]

I've cooled the WB-06 to 3C for its conditioning phase. I was a little concerned that it may not have carbonated, so I applied what seemed like a picojoule of energy on the pressure release valve and it wanted to take off like a rocket! No problems there then.

I also transferred the WLP-570 from lagering into a keg and primed with the requisite amount of dextrose and priming yeast. I have to say, it smelled right on the money as far as pear/lemon esters go, very reminiscent of Duvel. I can't recall the WB-06 having the same aroma when kegging, but I couldn't really smell a lot back then so I will won't draw any conclusions just yet.

The WLP-570 will be 2-3 weeks behind the WB-06, so all going well I should be tasting mid-late February.

 

[Miraculix]

I've cooled the WB-06 to 3C for its conditioning phase. I was a little concerned that it may not have carbonated, so I applied what seemed like a picojoule of energy on the pressure release valve and it wanted to take off like a rocket! No problems there then.

I also transferred the WLP-570 from lagering into a keg and primed with the requisite amount of dextrose and priming yeast. I have to say, it smelled right on the money as far as pear/lemon esters go, very reminiscent of Duvel. I can't recall the WB-06 having the same aroma when kegging, but I couldn't really smell a lot back then so I will won't draw any conclusions just yet.

The WLP-570 will be 2-3 weeks behind the WB-06, so all going well I should be tasting mid-late February.

Thanks for keeping us updated! I'm really looking forward to reading the final results!

 

[zasada]

And how it's going?
I'm looking forward to the conclusion of the experiment...

 

[Mark yeah]

And how it's going?

And how it's going?
I'm looking forward to the conclusion of the experiment...

The wlp570 has one week left of carbonating in the keg, then a month of conditioning at 3C. The few I bottled have firmed up nicely already so I'm not anticipating any issues, although I'm giving it an extra week just to be sure.
Ive resisted the temptation to try the WB06 (which is cold conditioning) as I want to do something of a blind side-by-side when they're both ready.

 

[Miraculix]

The wlp570 has one week left of carbonating in the keg, then a month of conditioning at 3C. The few I bottled have firmed up nicely already so I'm not anticipating any issues, although I'm giving it an extra week just to be sure.
Ive resisted the temptation to try the WB06 (which is cold conditioning) as I want to do something of a blind side-by-side when they're both ready.

Good plan!

 

[Mark yeah]

WLP570 keg is now in conditioning at 3C where it will stay for 4 weeks, which means I'll be targeting the 24th of Feb for the grand unveiling and tasting. In the meantime, I need to source a commercial bottle of Duvel...

 

[zasada]

Still impatiently waiting...

 

[Miraculix]

Still impatiently waiting...

#2!!!

 

[Mark yeah]

Me too. I've got a bottle of Duvel so let's just hope I don't die in the next 10 days

 

[Miraculix]

Me too. I've got a bottle of Duvel so let's just hope I don't die in the next 10 days

Fingers crossed!