Rubber taste

[marc1]

It's a good point that I don't taste it at bottling. But then again I know that my fermentation temperature must've been at least 70F, and probably more, because room temperature averages 65F in my house and the max temperature of the safale yeast I have been using is 68F.

Also, I had two batches ferment in the same room. One batch was in a single carboy and the other was split between two carboys yet the flavor was decided by the batch. Of course they were also both at the same temperature but one was darker which means it would succeed better in hiding off-flavors

I mostly use the same equipment every time. Carboys, stoppers, and airlocks do change though. I soak my hose in sanitizer for a long time and sanitize my bottling equipment two or three times.

Do you use a bottling bucket with a spigot or a bottling wand for all of the batches? If contamination has taken root in plastic, it can be very difficult to get rid of. Does your kettle use a ball valve?

 

[mlandon98]

Do you use a bottling bucket with a spigot or a bottling wand for all of the batches? If contamination has taken root in plastic, it can be very difficult to get rid of. Does your kettle use a ball valve?

No valves, I siphon. It is easier to keep a hose clean than it is to keep a hose and spigot clean. Although my bottling bucket has to use a spigot of course which I clean thoroughly and run sanitizer through each time after soaking in sanitizer and I do not use a bottling wand anymore. I find it hard to believe that a bucket which has been completely covered in sanitizer will have surviving contamination from the last batch.

I appreciate you trying to get to the bottom of this with me but my sanitation practices haven't changed since previous successes and I don't think we'll have an "Aha!" moment about my sanitation. But, before my next batch I will fill my bottling bucket with hot water and soap for a couple days to clean the bucket and drown anything that needs an aerobic environment. How do you feel about wiping equipment down with rubbing alcohol?

 

[Tom R]

Perhaps your sanitation process has been marginal all along?
I wouldn't count on hot water and soap.

Are you using an acid sanitzer? Bleach? Idaphor? These are effective when used properly.

 

[mlandon98]

Perhaps your sanitation process has been marginal all along?
I wouldn't count on hot water and soap.

Are you using an acid sanitzer? Bleach? Idaphor? These are effective when used properly.

I have never heard of anyone who uses just soap nor anyone who doesn't use a homebrew-store-bought sanitizer like Starsan

 

[homebeerbrewer]

I started reading the thread, but decided not to. I don’t do any water chemistry, I use spring water from a local spring, and I usually get good results. That being said, your issue has nothing to do with the water chemistry, it’s your fermentation temp. It’s too high. A small chest freezer, or as mentioned, a mini fridge with a temp controller will allow you to keep fermentation temp down where it should be. Once you get the equipment, tape the temp probe to the side of the fermenter During fermentation. If its a plastic bucket, taping the probe won’t help much, but it’s better than having it dangle in the air.

 

[mlandon98]

I started reading the thread, but decided not to. I don’t do any water chemistry, I use spring water from a local spring, and I usually get good results. That being said, your issue has nothing to do with the water chemistry, it’s your fermentation temp. It’s too high. A small chest freezer, or as mentioned, a mini fridge with a temp controller will allow you to keep fermentation temp down where it should be. Once you get the equipment, tape the temp probe to the side of the fermenter During fermentation. If its a plastic bucket, taping the probe won’t help much, but it’s better than having it dangle in the air.

I am glad to see that you're so sure about the temperature issue because that is the fix I am settling in on now. Did you have a similar problem to mine at one point?

 

[Tom R]

before my next batch I will fill my bottling bucket with hot water and soap for a couple days to clean the bucket and drown anything that needs an aerobic environment.

Glad to hear you are doing more than just that.

 

[marc1]

No valves, I siphon. It is easier to keep a hose clean than it is to keep a hose and spigot clean. Although my bottling bucket has to use a spigot of course which I clean thoroughly and run sanitizer through each time after soaking in sanitizer and I do not use a bottling wand anymore. I find it hard to believe that a bucket which has been completely covered in sanitizer will have surviving contamination from the last batch.

I appreciate you trying to get to the bottom of this with me but my sanitation practices haven't changed since previous successes and I don't think we'll have an "Aha!" moment about my sanitation. But, before my next batch I will fill my bottling bucket with hot water and soap for a couple days to clean the bucket and drown anything that needs an aerobic environment. How do you feel about wiping equipment down with rubbing alcohol?

I don't use rubbing alcohol. I do switch it up sometimes between StarSan and Iodophor in case there's something that's resistant to one or the other.

Filling the bucket with soapy water for several days doesn't seem like it would be helping much to me.

One last question - do you disassemble the spigot on your bottling bucket to clean it?

 

[mlandon98]

I don't use rubbing alcohol. I do switch it up sometimes between StarSan and Iodophor in case there's something that's resistant to one or the other.

Filling the bucket with soapy water for several days doesn't seem like it would be helping much to me.

One last question - do you disassemble the spigot on your bottling bucket to clean it?

Normally I do take my spigot apart. The last two times I actually haven't with no change, I will make sure to do that next time though. Soapy water would help because it would loosen any residue that microbes may be clinging onto/trapped underneath of.

 

[PCABrewing]

I do not have taste buds unique to our species. I am quite certain other people taste the same thing.

Taste buds are only a fraction of the perception of taste and it is not uncommon at all for people to experience a taste differently.
Have you tried comparing your brew to a close commercial version, do you perceive the taste in only your brew?
Also, you mention you didn't taste at bottling. That might be a good tool for isolating the origin of the off taste.
Try tasting Strike water, First Wort, Boiled wort, cooled wort into the fermentor and just after pitching pre-ferment. You might be able to identify when it is introduced and that will help narrow the scope of the investigation.

 

[mlandon98]

Taste buds are only a fraction of the perception of taste and it is not uncommon at all for people to experience a taste differently.
Have you tried comparing your brew to a close commercial version, do you perceive the taste in only your brew?
Also, you mention you didn't taste at bottling. That might be a good tool for isolating the origin of the off taste.
Try tasting Strike water, First Wort, Boiled wort, cooled wort into the fermentor and just after pitching pre-ferment. You might be able to identify when it is introduced and that will help narrow the scope of the investigation.

You're right, sense of smell is more important. Luckily, it tastes as horrible as it smells which means there's no confusion there, and I'm certain you would agree if you could only taste it. But then again, maybe I have that long covid and my senses are out of whack forever (ha).

I like beer. I've been drinking beer for a long time, and I've tried lots of types of it. The taste can only mean that something is horribly wrong, and only a few people agree because I'm only willing to let a few people taste it. There is nothing to compare the taste to except substances that don't belong in it.

 

[jtratcliff]

I have had the burnt rubber off-flavor. It is very distinctly burnt rubber.
It doesn't age out.

I haven't figured out the cause or the solution. Though I, too, have suspected temperature.
I ferment in a bucket , in a swamp cooler w/ ice packs, in a 60-70F basement.

I didn't always get it, though. My earlier brews were burnt rubber-free... Which
makes me suspect something else.

My recent Xmas ale didn't have it. But my APA did.... Frustrating.

 

[homebeerbrewer]

I am glad to see that you're so sure about the temperature issue because that is the fix I am settling in on now. Did you have a similar problem to mine at one point?

I haven't had the issue myself, but when I worked at the homebrew shop, a lot of people brought samples to ask us where they went wrong. After asking questions of their processes, ingredients, and cleaning and sanitizing, fermentation temp was almost always the culprit. Reading your posts in this thread, temperature is my conclusion. Everything else about brewing is flexible, but fermentation temp isn't.

 

[mlandon98]

I have had the burnt rubber off-flavor. It is very distinctly burnt rubber.
It doesn't age out.

I haven't figured out the cause or the solution. Though I, too, have suspected temperature.
I ferment in a bucket , in a swamp cooler w/ ice packs, in a 60-70F basement.

I didn't always get it, though. My earlier brews were burnt rubber-free... Which
makes me suspect something else.

My recent Xmas ale didn't have it. But my APA did.... Frustrating.

You're having the exact issue I'm having, to the word. Like we've established here, if your temperature outside the fermenter is 60F at minimum, then your temperature inside the fermenter is at least 65F because yeast activity increases temperature inside by 5-15F. So it is more likely that your basement averages 65F and your fermenter averages 75F. The ideal range for most yeasts we use peaks out at 68F so basically we have either been pushing our yeast to or beyond the limit most of the time.

 

[superiorsat]

S-04 is weird fruity above the recommended temperature. If you don't taste the burnt rubber at bottlings it is coming after that point. What is the temperature where you keep your bottles? Sun/light exposure? You know anyone that could keg a batch for you as a comparison?

 

[mlandon98]

S-04 is weird fruity above the recommended temperature. If you don't taste the burnt rubber at bottlings it is coming after that point. What is the temperature where you keep your bottles? Sun/light exposure? You know anyone that could keg a batch for you as a comparison?

My bottles are kept in the same conditions, which I will be changing (65F, dark bottles in a box) but from what I've read, keeping bottles even as high as 80F isn't a problem, but I wouldn't let my bottles get to 80F unless I thought it was somehow beneficial.

Perhaps the taste doesn't set in until bottling. I know that may seem nonsensical but stranger things have happened.

 

[Biggz1313]

I agree with all the fermentation temp folks, but one more thing to think about: What is your pitch rate for all these beers? Burnt rubber usually means stressed yeast where temp can be a cause of that and so can too low of a pitch rate. I didn't see you mention what size batches you are making but you should pitch enough yeast for whatever size batch you're brewing. I saw you said you were using S-04, did you plug your recipe into a yeast calculator to see if you should be using a starter?

Edit: Also, how long is your beer in the fermenter, and then how long is it in bottles before you're consuming it?

 

[mlandon98]

I agree with all the fermentation temp folks, but one more thing to think about: What is your pitch rate for all these beers? Burnt rubber usually means stressed yeast where temp can be a cause of that and so can too low of a pitch rate. I didn't see you mention what size batches you are making but you should pitch enough yeast for whatever size batch you're brewing. I saw you said you were using S-04, did you plug your recipe into a yeast calculator to see if you should be using a starter?

Edit: Also, how long is your beer in the fermenter, and then how long is it in bottles before you're consuming it?

Ah, yes, I forgot to write about my pitch rate. I do not remember the numbers and I am not home to look at the packet. With whatever yeast I am using (usually Safale), there is a range on the package. I always determine what the middle of that range is and add slightly more. So for simplicity's sake, let's say a given recipe calls for between 1.0 and 1.1 grams of yeast. I will add 1.051 or something.

I have never used a starter, but I have had success pitching Safale this way, and it is the only way I have ever done it. Under what circumstances might a starter by necessary?

My beer ferments for approximately 2-3 weeks (time hasn't affected taste) and I check one bottle after 5-7 days to ensure carbonation is taking place but don't start drinking until 2 weeks, and time doesn't fix rubber taste.

 

[Biggz1313]

Ah, yes, I forgot to write about my pitch rate. I do not remember the numbers and I am not home to look at the packet. With whatever yeast I am using (usually Safale), there is a range on the package. I always determine what the middle of that range is and add slightly more. So for simplicity's sake, let's say a given recipe calls for between 1.0 and 1.1 grams of yeast. I will add 1.051 or something.

I have never used a starter, but I have had success pitching Safale this way, and it is the only way I have ever done it. Under what circumstances might a starter by necessary?

My beer ferments for approximately 2-3 weeks (time hasn't affected taste) and I check one bottle after 5-7 days to ensure carbonation is taking place but don't start drinking until 2 weeks, and time doesn't fix rubber taste.

Ok, so Safale is typically 1 packet (11.5g) for 20-30L of wort. Do you brew that size batches (5-8 Gallons) and if so, are you pitching the whole packet of yeast?

Here is site with picture of packet and instructions: SafAle S-04 English Ale Dry Yeast (Whitbread Strain)

 

[mlandon98]

Ok, so Safale is typically 1 packet (11.5g) for 20-30L of wort. Do you brew that size batches (5-8 Gallons) and if so, are you pitching the whole packet of yeast?

Here is site with picture of packet and instructions: SafAle S-04 English Ale Dry Yeast (Whitbread Strain)

I never make more than 3 gallons at a time. I re-do the math every time because it is easy so there is no way that I am using an improper amount every single time. My luck is bad but not that bad. The amount of yeast I add actually varies slightly according to how I feel when I pitch it.

 

[Biggz1313]

I never make more than 3 gallons at a time. I re-do the math every time because it is easy so there is no way that I am using an improper amount every single time. My luck is bad but not that bad. The amount of yeast I add actually varies slightly according to how I feel when I pitch it.

How do you store the leftover yeast? How long is said yeast stored for before it's potentially used again?

 

[mlandon98]

How do you store the leftover yeast? How long is said yeast stored for before it's potentially used again?

Keep in mind this is a problem with new yeast packets as well, but I do need to be more careful about keeping the packet clean. I do not soak my packet before opening, what I do is open the packet with scissors (I just realized typing this that I do not sterilize my scissors and because of my complete lack of evidence of contamination I do not think it has been a problem, again I have had success in the past) but what I do is wipe the top of the opened packet with alcohol and then seal the plastic with a lighter, like a crack sack.

 

[Biggz1313]

Keep in mind this is a problem with new yeast packets as well, but I do need to be more careful about keeping the packet clean. I do not soak my packet before opening, what I do is open the packet with scissors (I just realized typing this that I do not sterilize my scissors and because of my complete lack of evidence of contamination I do not think it has been a problem, again I have had success in the past) but what I do is wipe the top of the opened packet with alcohol and then seal the plastic with a lighter, like a crack sack.

ok yeah likely not the culprit but just one more thing to be careful about. Also, I'ma steal that idea for resealing the packet, never thought of that

 

[Velnerj]

Well, I've ran into this exact problem. Tried to solve it with temp control but they didn't fix it either. Although still glad I made that upgrade. For me it was Camden tablets (or in my case K2S2O5 powder). You can't boil out chloramines, the only easy way is Camden, reaction occurs almost instantly. I'm not certain of all your water sources but it's a cheap and easy solution to try.

I never had this issue until I brewed a cream ale, then it appeared again in a heffeweizen. My previous brews were darker or hopper beers that masked this off flavor. I tried controlling fermentation temperature but it still showed up. I was finally able to solve it with K2S2O5 and haven't had the problem since.

 

[Mikey B]

Have you tried running a blank. Hence only water through the process to see how it tastes? Sounds stupid but it could be of value. This is a common practice in chemistry to determine where a problem may be occurring. You can also perform iterations to narrow down the issue. Your mileage may vary.

 

[mlandon98]

ok yeah likely not the culprit but just one more thing to be careful about. Also, I'ma steal that idea for resealing the packet, never thought of that

I like it because heat kills

 

[mlandon98]

Well, I've ran into this exact problem. Tried to solve it with temp control but they didn't fix it either. Although still glad I made that upgrade. For me it was Camden tablets (or in my case K2S2O5 powder). You can't boil out chloramines, the only easy way is Camden, reaction occurs almost instantly. I'm not certain of all your water sources but it's a cheap and easy solution to try.

I never had this issue until I brewed a cream ale, then it appeared again in a heffeweizen. My previous brews were darker or hopper beers that masked this off flavor. I tried controlling fermentation temperature but it still showed up. I was finally able to solve it with K2S2O5 and haven't had the problem since.

I was really hoping it was temperature, and it may be, but this post is still disconcerting. It seems like my problem is either a lack of campden or an excess of degrees Fahrenheit, both of which I will change in my next batch.

 

[jtratcliff]

You're having the exact issue I'm having, to the word. Like we've established here, if your temperature outside the fermenter is 60F at minimum, then your temperature inside the fermenter is at least 65F because yeast activity increases temperature inside by 5-15F. So it is more likely that your basement averages 65F and your fermenter averages 75F. The ideal range for most yeasts we use peaks out at 68F so basically we have either been pushing our yeast to or beyond the limit most of the time.

I swap out frozen water bottles on the swamp cooler for the first couple of days. The stick-on LCD fermometer indicates that I maintain under 65F. Then I let it free rise to whatever ambient is at the time. (58-64ish in winter, 65-70ish in the summer).

And in my case, I don't think it's chlorine/chloramine... I dose all my filtered water (mash & sparge) w/ 1/2 tab of campden.

And for pitch rate, I usually pitch a full packet of US-05 or Notty (rehydratd) for ~6 gal. batch...
Hmm... not sure if happens w/ both yeasts.... Need to check my notes.

That's why it so frustrating... it *shouldn't* be temp (swamp cooler)... it *shouldn't* be chlorine/chloramine (campden)...
Didn't used to happen.

I just got a new fermenter. We'll see if that solves anything. Might be time to replace all my cold-side equipment.

 

[mlandon98]

Have you tried running a blank. Hence only water through the process to see how it tastes? Sounds stupid but it could be of value. This is a common practice in chemistry to determine where a problem may be occurring. You can also perform iterations to narrow down the issue. Your mileage may vary.

I swap out frozen water bottles on the swamp cooler for the first couple of days. The stick-on LCD fermometer indicates that I maintain under 65F. Then I let it free rise to whatever ambient is at the time. (58-64ish in winter, 65-70ish in the summer).

And in my case, I don't think it's chlorine/chloramine... I dose all my filtered water (mash & sparge) w/ 1/2 tab of campden.

And for pitch rate, I usually pitch a full packet of US-05 or Notty (rehydratd) for ~6 gal. batch...
Hmm... not sure if happens w/ both yeasts.... Need to check my notes.

That's why it so frustrating... it *shouldn't* be temp (swamp cooler)... it *shouldn't* be chlorine/chloramine (campden)...
Didn't used to happen.

I just got a new fermenter. We'll see if that solves anything. Might be time to replace all my cold-side equipment.

Oh no.

 

[hotbeer]

IMO, for 3 gallons of wort with US-04 then 5.7 to 9 grams will be a more proper pitch.

Not certain I quite understand how much you actually pitched or if 3 gallons was the actual quantity you pitched to.