Robobrew/Brewzilla Discussion

[GoodTruble]

I very much try to keep it simple.

I usually incorporate a BIAB inside or outside the malt pipe so I can crush pretty small with no worries.

To sparge, I raise the malt pipe until it slowly drips, then just move the whole malt pipe to second kettle where I either dunk sparge or just pour over half a gallon 2-4 times. But I let it all collect in a second kettle and then dump that back into the main kettle as it ramps up to boil.

I brew next to a window with a window fan blowing out. One of the things I like most about the 35L 110v is the flexibility to brew at different locations (kitchen, deck, basement, garage, friend's house, etc.).

It's possible a regular ceiling exhaust fan would work, but it would need to be a strong fan with a short route to the outside. Condenser may be better in the end.

 

[GoodTruble]

I had my easiest brew day last night. I still did the psuedo-partigyle to get two different batches/beers, but after my triple brew day experience last time, I very much focussed on two complimentary recipes that provided easy, efficient overlap. I wound up brewing 8-10 gallons of Festbier and using 3-4 gallons of it to mix with LME/DME to make a saison as the second beer.

But I also made (I assume) a classic brewzilla mistake - While cleaning the brewzilla afterward, I did not realize I left the pump on when I detached the recirc arm. Turned into a mini-geyser. Luckily it was just water at that point (and just warm, not hot) and the arm snapped back in after 5 seconds of confusion/panic.

 

[DuncB]

@ryanj

I just have a connector on the laundry tap and then a Y hosepipe splitter with shutoffs built in. One goes to the condenser and the other goes to the counterflow.
I did buy a connector that goes on the tap that shows the pressure and I can tweak the output pressure before the Y splitter and a bit at the splitter.
A lot of people use a pump but we are not short of water here in NZ, esp winter time. In the summer rare to get hosepipe ban. I'm very economical with water all year round and give the runoff condenser water a second chance on the plants if it's watering weather.
Nearly 12 inches of rain last month so not watering plants at moment.
I'd love to know the cost of water compared to the cost of extractor fan running etc.
Might do some maths on that for fun when I get a moment. Electricity here is pretty cheap as not so fossil related. My bill about 70 US dollars a month for 300KWh. UK much more expensive.

 

[ryanj]

https://www.morebeer.com/products/bucket-buddy-electric-fermenter-35l925g-110v.htmlCurious if anyone else is using a Bucket Buddy for sparge water. For $150, this seems like a super cheap electric kettle. I have a small 12v pump I could attach to make pumping sparge water to the top of my BrewZilla's malt pipe a piece of cake.

 

[DuncB]

https://www.morebeer.com/products/bucket-buddy-electric-fermenter-35l925g-110v.htmlCurious if anyone else is using a Bucket Buddy for sparge water. For $150, this seems like a super cheap electric kettle. I have a small 12v pump I could attach to make pumping sparge water to the top of my BrewZilla's malt pipe a piece of cake.

I find gravity is more than enough to move water from the heater to the top of malt pipe.

Will your cheap 12V pump last with 80+ celsius water being pumped through it? to allow for losses so mash out temp at the end of the pipe is correct.

 

[ryanj]

I find gravity is more than enough to move water from the heater to the top of malt pipe.

Will your cheap 12V pump last with 80+ celsius water being pumped through it? to allow for losses so mash out temp at the end of the pipe is correct.

I think you're misunderstanding my question. I'm looking for a vessel to heat sparge water to pour over the grains after I pull the malt pipe.

I also think I answered my own question. This vessel only has a 36 watt heating element, so it's not going to do much good for heating up sparge water.

 

[DuncB]

I think you're misunderstanding my question. I'm looking for a vessel to heat sparge water to pour over the grains after I pull the malt pipe.

I wasn't answering that question, but had a question about the use of a 12V pump.

FWIW I started using a turboboiler which is just a stainless water heater and now use a canteen water heater with a thermostat which is much more convenient

I have now looked at your heating sparge water suggestion and feel that no one will be using that at whatever price to heat sparge water.

It has a 36watt element!!!!

I'd go for the digiboil which can hold a set temperature. Has 1500 watts max
https://www.morebeer.com/products/digiboil-electric-kettle-35l925g-110v.htmlYou can also use this to boil your wort in on the days when you are doing a double batch or partigyle etc.

EDIT you beat me to the answer on your edit.

 

[Sammy86]

https://www.morebeer.com/products/bucket-buddy-electric-fermenter-35l925g-110v.htmlCurious if anyone else is using a Bucket Buddy for sparge water. For $150, this seems like a super cheap electric kettle. I have a small 12v pump I could attach to make pumping sparge water to the top of my BrewZilla's malt pipe a piece of cake.

I use the Digiboil with a pump for my sparging.

 

[ryanj]

I wasn't answering that question, but had a question about the use of a 12V pump.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01G305PK0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1This is the pump I bought years ago, used for a few batches and wound up upgrading. It was a great little pump. Did everything I needed it to (recirculate mash, pump wort through CFC, you name it).

FWIW I started using a turboboiler which is just a stainless water heater and now use a canteen water heater with a thermostat which is much more convenient

I have now looked at your heating sparge water suggestion and feel that no one will be using that at whatever price to heat sparge water.

It has a 36watt element!!!!

I'd go for the digiboil which can hold a set temperature. Has 1500 watts max
https://www.morebeer.com/products/digiboil-electric-kettle-35l925g-110v.htmlYou can also use this to boil your wort in on the days when you are doing a double batch or partigyle etc.

EDIT you beat me to the answer on your edit.

Yeah, it looks like the digiboil is probably my best bet, but that's looking like $200...seems a lot for a water heater. I think I might just heat my sparge on the stove top until something else comes along.

 

[DuncB]

@ryanj
You don't need loads of sparge water if you use a runny mash and an electric kettle will make 2 litres and is easy to pour from.

Realise they are a bit of a rarity in USA, but rest of the world has been using them for years.

 

[ryanj]

@ryanj
You don't need loads of sparge water if you use a runny mash and an electric kettle will make 2 litres and is easy to pour from.

Realise they are a bit of a rarity in USA, but rest of the world has been using them for years.

When I was brewing on my HERMS I’d average 5.75 gallons of mash water and about 4 gallons of sparge water.

I haven’t found an electric kettle of that volume yet.

 

[NJL]

I do a really lazy sparge. Just heat full volume of water, treat with salts & acid, then drain into a 10L container that I marked with volume increments. Wrap in a towel and pour it over the lifted grain basket when mash is complete.
There are probably betters ways to get more efficiency. However this is practically no extra effort than full volume mashing and I saw a 5% efficiency increase when I started doing this.

 

[ryanj]

I do a really lazy sparge. Just heat full volume of water, treat with salts & acid, then drain into a 10L container that I marked with volume increments. Wrap in a towel and pour it over the lifted grain basket when mash is complete.
There are probably betters ways to get more efficiency. However this is practically no extra effort than full volume mashing and I saw a 5% efficiency increase when I started doing this.

Not gonna lie, this method makes a lot of sense. Heat the total water volume, drain off your sparge volume, mash in, finish mash, pour sparge water over grains. Done.

I’ve been on a mission to simplify my brewing equipment and just stumbled across “cold sparging” and I’m intrigued. I realize this will simply delay my “time to boil”, but will completely reduce my need to purchase another vessel.

 

[Sammy86]

I’ve been on a mission to simplify my brewing equipment and just stumbled across “cold sparging” and I’m intrigued. I realize this will simply delay my “time to boil”, but will completely reduce my need to purchase another vessel.

I did cold sparging for two brews, no ill effects taste wise. Fair warning, it takes more water and is slower running through the grain bed.

 

[403Brewer]

A supplier in Canada has the v4 for $689, meanwhile the 3.1.1 is on sale for $350. I really wanted to wait for the 4, but at this price difference, what am I missing out on?

who was selling the v3.1.1 for $350? Just starting to look hard an an AIO here now, and torn between S40/BZ3.1.1/BZ4...but if someone is still offering the BZ3.1.1 at $350 CAD that would likely be the answer

 

[DuncB]

Good price and just upgrade later if you want with new controls etc etc.

 

[Sammy86]

Good price and just upgrade later if you want with new controls etc etc.

From what I've read and seen the controller won't be upgradable from 3.1 to 4.0

 

[DuncB]

From what I've read and seen the controller won't be upgradable from 3.1 to 4.0

I upgraded mine with one of these, links to brewfather, app controllable, works great, control is super accurate on the mash, dial in power on the boil. 2nd temp probe etc etc.
I got the cube version, don't think the Din version being made anymore.
https://smartpid.com/products/

 

[Sammy86]

I upgraded mine with one of these, links to brewfather, app controllable, works great, control is super accurate on the mash, dial in power on the boil. 2nd temp probe etc etc.
I got the cube version, don't think the Din version being made anymore.
https://smartpid.com/products/

I meant Brewzilla V 3.1 can't be upgraded to the V4.0 controller...if I had any electrical ability i would totally upgrade to the smart PID...bending down is a PIA

 

[theredviper]

who was selling the v3.1.1 for $350? Just starting to look hard an an AIO here now, and torn between S40/BZ3.1.1/BZ4...but if someone is still offering the BZ3.1.1 at $350 CAD that would likely be the answer

Brewhq.ca was. By the time I made up my mind to go for it, the sale was over. I think it was for Father's Day. Now I'm back to saving up for the v4.

 

[GoodTruble]

Skipping back a few posts - @Sammy86 - when you attached the malt pipe false bottom to the main false bottom, did the malt screen false bottom still have rough edges exposed all around? I was going to try this last brew session 4 days ago, but a I was worried the rough edges of the malt pipr false bottom would snag my BIAB.

 

[Sammy86]

Skipping back a few posts - @Sammy86 - when you attached the malt pipe false bottom to the main false bottom, did the malt screen false bottom still have rough edges exposed all around? I was going to try this last brew session 4 days ago, but a I was worried the rough edges of the malt pipr false bottom would snag my BIAB.

The malt pipe screen sat pretty flush so I wasn't too concerned about the bag catching...i also have a Brew Bag so it is a tank...I don't think the rough edges have a chance.

 

[DuncB]

@Sammy86
The electricals aren't that difficult, I've just helped someone in Sweden install their smartpid via whatsapp and email.

 

[Sammy86]

@Sammy86
The electricals aren't that difficult, I've just helped someone in Sweden install their smartpid via whatsapp and email.

Yeah, I literally am not handy whatsoever...electric stuff scares me. I literally shut down the whole hose for switches and socket replacements

 

[jtrainer]

OK, back ground I've been using my 3v Keggle Single tier running on propane for 21 years. I'm looking at migrating to a 35L v4 running on 220v.
Since I've now pre-ordered the 35L Brewzilla v4... I have a few questions for the experienced Robobrew crowd...

How many extra gallons can I expect to keg if I add the boil extender occasionally? (call it an 8, 9, or 10 gal batch assuming the grain bill fits within the malt pipe)
How much time can I expect to save? (Granted I do a mixture of 5 and 10 Gal batches already)
What's the minimum grain bill for a 5G batch that reasonably works? ( I developed my Jiller lite and boy it's tuff on my keggle that is tweaked to allow for the 10.2 Lbs of grain on an 11 G batch. (I can't even mash a 5 G batch today.

 

[DuncB]

@jtrainer
Q1 No idea re this.
Q2 How much time do you spend at the moment? How do you use it?
Q3 Make a brut IPA and you need hardly any grain at all. Make an LA beer and again probably less grain again.
Q4 See Q3

 

[GoodTruble]

Kegland says you can fill the liquid volume above the extender transition. But I stay cautious and keep the liquid volume below the extender (which means about 8.5 gallons) and just use the extender to protect against boil over (-being able to step away from the boil without worrying about it is worth more to me than more beer). If you fill the liquid volume into the extender, it adds 3 more gallons of space (but beware boil overs, leaks, and longer ramp up times).

 

[GoodTruble]

How much times does it save? Depends on a lot of things. If everything is set up and water is preheated, I am done with the boil in about 2 hours and on to cooling. It takes me 20-30 minutes to clean up the Brewzilla (-and I sometimes transfer hot wort into a different kettle so I can clean the brewzilla while the wort cools).

I think the biggest time difference is that the Brewzilla may take longer to heat water than other systems (but 220v may be much faster than my 110v). But you can programs it to preheat the water in advance. Otherwise, the timing is pretty similar to BIAB, just tidier and simpler.

 

[jtrainer]

Kegland says you can fill the liquid volume above the extender transition. But I stay cautious and keep the liquid volume below the extender (which means about 8.5 gallons) and just use the extender to protect against boil over (-being able to step away from the boil without worrying about it is worth more to me than more beer). If you fill the liquid volume into the extender, it adds 3 more gallons of space (but beware boil overs, leaks, and longer ramp up times).

So it sounds like I could potentially fill maybe 2 kegs with maybe 4ish Gal each... Real-world testing would certainly be in order for my lightest of ales.

I'm just trying to figure out if I should cancel and make it the 65L unit, but I really expect to trim back to 5G average batches.

 

[jtrainer]

How much times does it save? Depends on a lot of things. If everything is set up and water is preheated, I am done with the boil in about 2 hours and on to cooling. It takes me 20-30 minutes to clean up the Brewzilla (-and I sometimes transfer hot wort into a different kettle so I can clean the brewzilla while the wort cools).

I think the biggest time difference is that the Brewzilla may take longer to heat water than other systems (but 220v may be much faster than my 110v). But you can programs it to preheat the water in advance. Otherwise, the timing is pretty similar to BIAB, just tidier and simpler.

So assuming I have the mash water ready and pre-heated... Are you suggesting your brew day is maybe 3ish hours cooled and cleaned up?

I have both an immersion and counterflow chiller already... If that is accurate, wow, what a time saver. I'll have time on brew day to still pump out 20-30 miles in the hills on my bikes.

My system today takes a long while to heat up, lots of cleaning, takes a ton of space, is heavy, etc...

Thanks

 

[Henbrew]

So assuming I have the mash water ready and pre-heated... Are you suggesting your brew day is maybe 3ish hours cooled and cleaned up?

I have both an immersion and counterflow chiller already... If that is accurate, wow, what a time saver. I'll have time on brew day to still pump out 20-30 miles in the hills on my bikes.

My system today takes a long while to heat up, lots of cleaning, takes a ton of space, is heavy, etc...

Thanks

Takes me about 3-4 hours most brews on mine including clean up. It's great to finish my brew days 11AM or earlier.

 

[DuncB]

So it sounds like I could potentially fill maybe 2 kegs with maybe 4ish Gal each... Real-world testing would certainly be in order for my lightest of ales.

I'm just trying to figure out if I should cancel and make it the 65L unit, but I really expect to trim back to 5G average batches.

I had 35 litre robobrew and used to run it to the brim to get 25 or a little more per batch. Constant boil over worries.
Upgraded to a guten 70 litre which basically same as the kegland 65.
Now no stress on 25 litre batches can easily do double batches or big grain bill strong beers.
I'd have gone straight to the bigger one if I'd realised but was coming into all grain for first time and had only been extract brewing 25 years before.

My unit is 240v, time saving can be achieved with preparation the day before, overnight mash, shorter boil. I am confident now to leave the unit alone when masting and when up to boil. I wouldn't have dared do that when using the other unit to the brim.

 

[Wayne1]

I have the 65L Brewzilla 3.1. I brew mostly 5 gallon batches, no sparge. Very simple, no extra pumps or hoses. I typically fill the Brewzilla with 8.5 gallons of water for a 15-16 lb grain bill for IPAs. I normally do not pre-heat the water. I pre-boil the day before and re-heat the day of the brew. I mill while the water is heating.

I usually do a 75 minute mash with a 10 minute mash out at 170. I raise up the mash pipe and let it drain while heating to a boil. Draining is done right around the time it hits a boil. I boil for 90 minutes. I usually whirlpool hop for 20 minutes and then knockout through my counterflow heat exchanger.

With all of those steps and times, I have never run over 5 hours from heat up to fully cleaned up. You can reduce that time if you program the Brewzilla to be at strike temp when you start and reduce your mash and boil times.

 

[Maalea]

@ryanj
You don't need loads of sparge water if you use a runny mash and an electric kettle will make 2 litres and is easy to pour from.

Realise they are a bit of a rarity in USA, but rest of the world has been using them for years.

When I was brewing on my HERMS I’d average 5.75 gallons of mash water and about 4 gallons of sparge water.

I haven’t found an electric kettle of that volume yet.

During the mash, I start heating my "Half Gallon" Electric kettle (They are everywhere over here. I've been using them for 25 years. French Press coffee) then dump the hot water into my plastic primary in the summer or into my old cooler mash tun in the winter. By the time I'm ready to sparge I have the correct amount of sparge water near the perfect temp. No extra cleaning needed and with the plastic primary it's an extra level of sanitation.

 

[ryanj]

During the mash, I start heating my "Half Gallon" Electric kettle (They are everywhere over here. I've been using them for 25 years. French Press coffee) then dump the hot water into my plastic primary in the summer or into my old cooler mash tun in the winter. By the time I'm ready to sparge I have the correct amount of sparge water near the perfect temp. No extra cleaning needed and with the plastic primary it's an extra level of sanitation.

Yeah, I have a 1.5L electric kettle I use for coffee. Are you saying you use that to heat your sparge water a half gallon at a time?

That certainly sounds interesting and pretty easy for me to do.

 

[GoodTruble]

If you're already going 220v any way, then going 65L is an easier argument.

Also, YES, smaller footprint is a huge advantage to an all in one system.

And yes, if I preheat water and have everything ready (grains crushed, fermenters ready, etc), I can brew and be cleaned up in 3 hours. But I do psuedo-partigyle to make two beers and usually don't have everything ready. So my brew days are usually 4-5 hours.

 

[GoodTruble]

Whoa, Kegland just finally listed their 100L Brewzilla.....

https://www.kegland.com.au/brewzilla-100l-gen-4.html

 

[DuncB]

Yeah, I have a 1.5L electric kettle I use for coffee. Are you saying you use that to heat your sparge water a half gallon at a time?

That certainly sounds interesting and pretty easy for me to do.

My sparge is often not much more than 6 litres so you could just boil the kettle or stick your thermometer in it and use water when it gets to the right temp. Boiling water is a bit to hot, it won't take long to get to 80 celsius. That would be a good way to start.

 

[Sammy86]

Whoa, Kegland just finally listed their 100L Brewzilla.....

https://www.kegland.com.au/brewzilla-100l-gen-4.html

That thing is a BEAST!

 

[Maalea]

Yeah, I have a 1.5L electric kettle I use for coffee. Are you saying you use that to heat your sparge water a half gallon at a time?

That certainly sounds interesting and pretty easy for me to do.

Yes, that is what I do. While I'm waiting for the mash, I start boiling water for the sparge, Also I can adjust sparge water temp with hot or cold water. I have used a small pump to do the sparge itself but sometimes I just use the pour over method