Robobrew/Brewzilla Discussion
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Dr P
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I have a Brewzilla 65L Gen 3.1.1, love the unit. Curious if anyone has experience on how long/or how many brews before the unit starts to wear out? Reason I ask, is the cost of this version is extremely reasonable, and after about 125 brews, I am starting to wonder if pump and heating elements are fading. I know pump is probably replaceable for <$100, but I would buy this exact unit again as it does everything I need it to without the admittedly very nice Gen 4 features.
Panderson1
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I have been wondering this too. I am probably around the same (125) brew days. But it's still riding strong.
DuncB
Well-Known Member
My guten similar touch wood at over 50 batches.
We have been selling the BrewZilla breweries for about 5 years now and sell 10's of thousands of units per annum. In the past 5 years we have seen less than 20 pump failures and less than 10 elemement failures.
So yes it's possible that the elements or pumps can fail but it's rare. Part of the low failure rate is because we have spend quite a bit of time to upgrade components.
PUMP
For the pump head some of our competitors use glass reinforced PP but since the beginning of when the BrewZilla breweries have been manufactured we upgraded the material to Syndiotactic Polystyrene which is really a much better resin so this is why the failure rate of the pumps is close to zero. Almost all warrantly claim that we see are simply caused by blocked pumps and this can be rectified by cleaning the pump out. We have seen a few cases where blockage is caused by some machined stainless swarf or mould that has started to grow in the pump but this is easily rectified by taking apart and cleaning.
ELEMENTS
As you would know the BrewZilla brewery has lower watt density than our competitors such as the Guten or Grandfathers which is great for doing lighter colored beers as you dont caramelize the malt. The secondary benefit is that lower watt density elements last way longer and this is also one reason why we have close to zero failures on the elements. Even if you boil the elements dry several times they are quite difficult to cause a failure as the thermal cut out switch prevents this type of failure.
OTHER FAILURES
Beyond the two failure modes above the only other type of failure mode that we see is caused by liquid ingress into the controller during wash down. With that said it's quite rare and even with aggressive wash down it's difficult for this to cause a failure. Sometimes if customers are a bit aggressive with washing it down we see some condensation on the inside of the screen lens that that generally rectifies itself over time as it dries out. The circuit boards can be quite easily replaced if this was to happen too.
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I’m sorry but this is 35 pages so I have to ask what’s probably been asked already.
I brewed a grand total of 1 time (today) with my Brewzilla Gen 3.1.1.
The pump became hopelessly clogged. I tried using my hose to backwash through the intake (as suggested in numerous search hits). I heard a loud pop. Removed the bottom to get at the pump and saw that I’d busted the short hose connecting the pump to the intake on the floor of the unit. I removed everything, opened the pump, cleaned it, cleaned the outtake arm, etc. but obviously I need to replace this short tube before I can reassemble and test the pump.
Does anyone know where I can get this part so I am not just fitting it with a random length of 1/2” (I’m assuming) tubing?
I brewed a grand total of 1 time (today) with my Brewzilla Gen 3.1.1.
The pump became hopelessly clogged. I tried using my hose to backwash through the intake (as suggested in numerous search hits). I heard a loud pop. Removed the bottom to get at the pump and saw that I’d busted the short hose connecting the pump to the intake on the floor of the unit. I removed everything, opened the pump, cleaned it, cleaned the outtake arm, etc. but obviously I need to replace this short tube before I can reassemble and test the pump.
Does anyone know where I can get this part so I am not just fitting it with a random length of 1/2” (I’m assuming) tubing?
IDK for v3.1.1, but for v4 I cut a length of 1/2" ID silicone tubing and it's worked fine. I re-used the old clamps. (I was modifying the connections.)
@KegLand may have an official dia and length spec? But IMO just start a little long and trim down.
Did you blow on it, or use compressed air or something? Odd that you could burst the tube with just your weak human diaphragm. (edit: You are human? No gamma rays?)
I used my garden hose. I guess too much pressure. I just hope I didn’t burn out the pump my damned first time using it.
DuncB
Well-Known Member
Beware the unit will suck grain back up the tube when pump is turned off. Keep it on top plate or out of the wort.
You might find that a short length of the recirculate tube would do the job to replace the burst part.
Ah. Don't worry, I think these pumps are pretty sturdy. @KegLand said of the returns they've seen is Australia, they've almost all been gunked up pump heads with perfectly functioning motors.
As DuncB said, don't turn the pump off if the recirc tube is below the mash level. If Gen 3 has % pump setting, this toggles the pump and can cause the same issue.
I believe the recirc tubing is more like 3/8" ID, so not a fit.
DuncB
Well-Known Member
While since I've seen a 3.x
My bigger AIO has half inch tube on the recirculation.
I found the replacement online at Williams Brewing. Ordered two of them.
What’s the most grain you’ve all mashed in a 35L Gen 3?
DuncB
Well-Known Member
More grain is less efficient. As mash thicker. i found reiterated mash worked best for larger batch high gravity. Then moved to a 70 litre system.
I’m not so much concerned with the efficiency. I’m just wondering if I have to keep my old equipment for bigger OG beers or not. For example, my dopplebock has a 16.5lbs grain bill. I’m thinking that’s too much?
DuncB
Well-Known Member
you might well fit it in but it's going to be a very thick mash. So your batch is going to be small. Expect 50 % extract at best.
Good grain bill to partigyle a lighter beer from the second runnings.
(1) the one and only time my 3.1.1 clogged was my first brew day. And it was definitely due to grain getting sucked back up the recirc tube when i turned the pump off. If you don't use the top screen (I don't), then just remember to lift the tube slightly above wort when you turn off the pump.
(2) anything over 16 lbs. and I usually start looking for ways to split it up, such as reiterated mash, mashing half then half, replacing some grain with dme, or cold soaking some dark grains overnight instead. (I also don't use the malt pipe anymore, just biab, which I think gives 2-3 lbs of wiggle room for the grain. Using the malt pipe, I would try to keep it under 14 lbs). But I have made 22 lbs batches before by using some of the above methods.
(2) anything over 16 lbs. and I usually start looking for ways to split it up, such as reiterated mash, mashing half then half, replacing some grain with dme, or cold soaking some dark grains overnight instead. (I also don't use the malt pipe anymore, just biab, which I think gives 2-3 lbs of wiggle room for the grain. Using the malt pipe, I would try to keep it under 14 lbs). But I have made 22 lbs batches before by using some of the above methods.
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Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
Has anyone considered what effect the "dead space" in a Brewzilla has on the "thickness" of the mash?
The 35 liter Gen 4 has exactly 2.0 liters of "dead space" below the screen of the pipe. This doesn't really affect the thickness of the mash and can be considered as part of the sparge water calculations.
But what about the volume of water between the outside wall of the pipe and the wall of the Brewzilla? This is not an insignificant volume of water. I took measurements and calculated this volume as being 18% of the volume inside the pipe. Since the grain is contained within the pipe, theoretically it shouldn't affect the thickness of the grain, but if you are calculating the water to grain ratio, don't you need to increase that by an additional 18% to account for the water outside the pipe and keep the water to grain ratio inside the pipe as desired?
The 35 liter Gen 4 has exactly 2.0 liters of "dead space" below the screen of the pipe. This doesn't really affect the thickness of the mash and can be considered as part of the sparge water calculations.
But what about the volume of water between the outside wall of the pipe and the wall of the Brewzilla? This is not an insignificant volume of water. I took measurements and calculated this volume as being 18% of the volume inside the pipe. Since the grain is contained within the pipe, theoretically it shouldn't affect the thickness of the grain, but if you are calculating the water to grain ratio, don't you need to increase that by an additional 18% to account for the water outside the pipe and keep the water to grain ratio inside the pipe as desired?
Sidman
Well-Known Member
Curious if anyone has modded their malt pipe for gen 3 version to have filter holes along the sides at the bottom like the gen 4 malt pipe? I have a ton of batches in on my 65l v3 and it recirculates beautifully for a 5 gallon batch but really struggles with a decent og 10 gallon batch. I have ditched the overflow pipe and plugged the screen and use biab bag around the malt pipe and I'm typically lucky to get the pump flowing more than a quarter turn without overflowing on the sides. Would appreciate any help!
Cheers!
Cheers!
DuncB
Well-Known Member
I'm using a 70 Litre Guten so basically the same as yours. Bigger grain bills don't flow as well, I do use glucanase in my recipes which helps make the mash less gummy. Flow hasn't been too bad but majority of my mashes I'm aiming for a 25 litre batch and gravity up to 1.070.
Sorry for the long wait. We have got orders in the system for www.williamsbrewing.com and also www.morebeer.com so if you check with these guys they can give you a more accurate arrival time.
If this is the case I would probably resort to stirring as you heat up. In the order Gen 3 I used to just stir more especially in the first 30min of mash time. You can also try heating up the strike water slightly more.
Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
@KegLand do you have an answer to this question? Thanks.
Sidman
Well-Known Member
Appreciate it and you Kegland! I have one of the extensions for the 65l and I see that you have a taller malt pipe for the extension. Does it have the same type of screen at the bottom?
hungupdown
Well-Known Member
Depends what you consider as "dead. space". It's really the amount of liquid left behind once your mash tun is drained, but brew software assumes all liquid under the false bottom is not returned to the kettle. That isn't always the case. The BZ, having a domed base with drain at bottom, maybe leaves just 0.5l behind.
Mash deadspace, is the unused water that's between outside of unperforated maltpipe & the BZ wall. This 4l, never normally gets circulated, except by thermal eddy's or diffusion, and only gets mixed in when the malt pipe is lifted.
Forcing circulation of this unused/deadspace water , by occasionally sticking the recirculation hose down one of the lift holes, will improve efficiency. As during mash, sugar concentration in the saturated grain, will gradually equalise with that in the wort, so a more dilute wort should extract more sugars.
Alternative is to keep recirculating through the grain, for a while, after the pipe is lifted, so the diluted wort can rinse off more sugars. But unless prolonged, it can't be as efficient.
Bottoms_Up
Well-Known Member
This is a bit complicated, and to my knowledge, has never been noticed or mentioned before, so maybe I haven't been clear enough.
There's no real terminology that I'm aware of for this "dead space", which is why I put quotes around it. Maybe it's better to call it "excess space", or even better, "unaccounted space", in the sense that it falls outside the calculation of a typical mash (grain + infusion). I'm referring to all of the liquid below the bottom screen of the malt pipe (2.0 liters in my system 35 liter Gen 4) as well as all of the liquid between the wall of the mash pipe and the wall of the Brewzilla, which itself, in my system, is 18% of the total volume of mash in the mash pipe.
In a closed mash tun, in order to calculate the amount of infusion water, you would first decide on a water to grain ratio, say 1.5 quarts per pound. The amount of water affects the thickness of the mash. But in the Brewzilla, you first have all the liquid under the mash pipe to consider (the 2.0 liters). Since it sits under the mash, it does not affect the thickness of the mash, but you still have to account for this volume when calculating the remaining amount of sparge water to use. This is later drained along with the wort that comes from the mash. This volume is not of much concern since it doesn't affect the mash thickness, and can readily be taken into consideration.
However, what IS of concern and does affect mash thickness is the amount of water/wort that exists above the bottom of the mash pipe and between the mash pipe and the outer wall of the Brewzilla. At first I thought that this amount would be negligible. But when I measured the space between, it amounted to 18% of the area within the mash pipe, which is indeed significant. Thus it would account for about 18% of the total volume of the mash (again within the mash pipe).
Now since the mash pipe contains the grain within it, the grain thickness is only dependent on the amount of water contained in the mash pipe. But if you were to calculate 1.5 quarts per pound of grain, 18% of that water would drain into the space between the malt pipe and the outer wall of the Brewzilla. This would therefore REDUCE the water to grain ratio inside the malt pipe by 18%, resulting in a much thicker mash than desired.
Thus I was wondering if anyone takes this into account when calculating the mash thickness? In other words, you would need to add 18% more infusion water to maintain the water to grain ratio at say, 1.5 quarts per pound of grain. I think that most home brewing software programs (e.g. BeerSmith) would not take that into account, so you would end up with a much thicker mash than desired.
Hope that makes better sense.
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I use Brewfather. Its equipment profiles have two terms relative to this:
1. Mash Tun Deadspace. It explains this as recoverable mash deadspace. Brewfather uses this mathematically like this... You define your desired mash thickness in qt/lb (in the Brewfather equipment profile), and it calculates a mash water volume. Then it adds this Mash Tun Deadspace value and this is the total volume of water Brewfather tells you to put in your "mash tun". In this case, that's just how much to add to your BrewZilla. I have 0.66 gallons in my profile for BrewZilla Gen4.
2. Mash Tun Loss. It calls this unrecoverable mash volume. This is wort left behind in your "mash tun" that doesn't make it into your "boil kettle". Mathematically, Brewfather takes your amount of Mash water added above, subtracts off the grain absorption (my profile has 0.479 qt/lb), then subtracts off this Mash Tun Loss to give you your pre-boil volume. Since BrewZilla mash tun = boil kettle, I have Mash Tun Loss set to 0.
Here's an example of my most recent brew:
1. Mash Tun Deadspace. It explains this as recoverable mash deadspace. Brewfather uses this mathematically like this... You define your desired mash thickness in qt/lb (in the Brewfather equipment profile), and it calculates a mash water volume. Then it adds this Mash Tun Deadspace value and this is the total volume of water Brewfather tells you to put in your "mash tun". In this case, that's just how much to add to your BrewZilla. I have 0.66 gallons in my profile for BrewZilla Gen4.
2. Mash Tun Loss. It calls this unrecoverable mash volume. This is wort left behind in your "mash tun" that doesn't make it into your "boil kettle". Mathematically, Brewfather takes your amount of Mash water added above, subtracts off the grain absorption (my profile has 0.479 qt/lb), then subtracts off this Mash Tun Loss to give you your pre-boil volume. Since BrewZilla mash tun = boil kettle, I have Mash Tun Loss set to 0.
Here's an example of my most recent brew:
- 3.8 Gal of mash water
- 10.3 lbs of malt
- Target 1.25 qt/lb mash thickness
- 3.6 Gal of sparge water
- Measured 6.76 Gal of pre-boil volume
- Measured pre-boil gravity of 1.049
- Measured 82.8% mash efficiency
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