RIMS for Dummies

[HDIr0n]

Man my butt hurts just from looking at your bike, I have a Street Glide for touring I had to trade in my Nightster though
Nice brew setup BTW, can you get closer pics of your pumps? When I build my stand I am going to have to actually mount my pumps to my stand and was just curious if you used street elbows with camlocks on them.

Thanks,
-G

 

[rossi46]

The rides really not bad. The saddle is mounted to an adjustable air shock, so it has some give to it.
Any way the pumps have street elbows and the hoses have street elbows to complete the 180.

 

[davidr7283]

I hope this hasn't already been answered, but when wiring everything together, what kind of wire is used for everything?

I have the Auber SYL-2362 controller, 120v 1500w heating element, 25A SSR, March pump, and switches to turn everything on/off. I have designed it much like the OP. I am just not sure of the wire? Specifically what gauge. Is it all the same or is it different, ie, controller to SSR vs SSR to heating element.

I have done some electrical work, but it has been mainly with wiring outlets in a house during a remodel, using 12-2 or 14-2 Romex wire.

Thanks.

 

[rossi46]

I used 10 gauge and 16 gauge inside my control panel. 10 is overkill but I already had some. For the element I used 12-3 so cord.

 

[ScottSingleton]

hey Rossi how far in your Mash Tun does that temp probe go?

I've been running two temp probes as well, one in the tail of the RIMS tube, which is convention, and one in the base of the sight-glass. I use it to monitor the delta between what the RIMS is maintaining and the actual tun temp just in case there is a variance.

I had been noticing about a 2 degree difference but then during a mash on Sunday stuck my thermo pen down inside the grain bed and realized that the bed was holding the rims temp and only losing about 1/2 a degree. I realized that my temp probe just isn't getting into the center of the tun enough to get a reading on the actual grain bed and the variance is probably caused by the fact that it's so close to the edge of the kettle.

how far in does yours go and what type of variances are you seeing if any?

 

[rossi46]

hey Rossi how far in your Mash Tun does that temp probe go?

I've been running two temp probes as well, one in the tail of the RIMS tube, which is convention, and one in the base of the sight-glass. I use it to monitor the delta between what the RIMS is maintaining and the actual tun temp just in case there is a variance.

I had been noticing about a 2 degree difference but then during a mash on Sunday stuck my thermo pen down inside the grain bed and realized that the bed was holding the rims temp and only losing about 1/2 a degree. I realized that my temp probe just isn't getting into the center of the tun enough to get a reading on the actual grain bed and the variance is probably caused by the fact that it's so close to the edge of the kettle.

how far in does yours go and what type of variances are you seeing if any?

I got a six inch probe. I haven't brewed with it yet. I planning the maiden voyage on Saturday.

 

[ScottSingleton]

I got a six inch probe. I haven't brewed with it yet. I planning the maiden voyage on Saturday.

Awesome man!!! let us know how she works. It's definitely beautiful!

 

[rossi46]

Thanks man.

 

[billysparrows]

Electrical moron here....any detailed info/pics on control panel wiring for just the RIMS element? I'm building one to be used with NG fired boil kettle.

Don't worry, my electrical engineer brother is going to double check it for me prior to testing, but he's too busy to build it for me...kids will do that I guess.

Thanks in advance. Sorry if it is earlier in the thread, I read 30 some pages and gave up looking.

 

[P-J]

Electrical moron here....any detailed info/pics on control panel wiring for just the RIMS element? I'm building one to be used with NG fired boil kettle.

Don't worry, my electrical engineer brother is going to double check it for me prior to testing, but he's too busy to build it for me...kids will do that I guess.

Thanks in advance. Sorry if it is earlier in the thread, I read 30 some pages and gave up looking.

Here you go:
(Please note that the RIMS is interlocked with the pump so that the RIMS cannot fire unless the pump is switched on.)

As always - click on the image to see a full scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")



Hope this helps you.

P-J

(EDIT: Wow. I just posted # 1000 in this thread.)

 

[billysparrows]

Thanks a ton and congrats!

 

[billysparrows]

Do you have a more detailed parts list? Like I said, moron.....

 

[phoenixs4r]

I'm sorry if this had been brought up before....

What water to grain ratio do you guys run? I have yet to incorporate a rims system, however using the typical 10 gallon cooler/false bottom set up, I can't get my mash to recirculate or transfer to the BK without getting stuck, unless the valve is just slightly cracked. I'm talking flow so slow I might as well be fly sparging.

I'd imagine it's either the fact I run 1.25 quarts per pounds, or maybe crush? I run my gap pretty tight (.38) but I condition my grains, and my water/grain ratio is set in stone since we do 10 gallon batches in a 10 gallon cooler.

Really don't want to set up a rims until i figure out my flow issues.

 

[rossi46]

Well, I ran my new rims system for the first time today. The mash was perfect, hit my pre-boil exactly.
Many thanks to everyone in this thread for all of the info here.

 

[gregkabob]

I've put together the RIMS system and I'm having a heck of a time with the Auberin SYL-4352 PID.

I got the system wired up and running fine. Per the suggestions on this thread I I set my temp to 150, adjusted the flow to what I would use during the mash and heated the water up to 140 and at that point I put it in Auto Tune. The SV flashed and the temp was rising to 150 and then kept going. 45 min later it was over 167 and still doing it's Auto Tune.

How long is the Auto Tune usually take?

I then set it to manual and the temp went to 155 and kept climbing.

What am I doing wrong? Any and all help would be appriciated.

As for the rest of the setting on the PID I left them in the defaults.

Thanks Much,

Greg

 

[P-J]

First: When you do an "auto tune" you need to set the temp differencial at 10° below your set point. If you bring the temp to your set temp when you start auto, a lot can go wrong in a hurry.

 

[Spring_Chicken]

You have the PID at 100%. Try turning it down. It is so powerful that it overshoots because it is on all the time. My setup runs best at 20%, which means it is only 'on' 20% of the time. Try changing the setting to 20 under the OUTH setting. Then you will probably need to adjust it up as it most likely won't be able to meet the temperature needs. Try moving it up 10% and running autotune each time.

I just did the same thing last week.

http://auberins.com/images/Manual/Manual version 3.4.pdf

 

[gregkabob]

Thanks for the replies.

P-J, when you say set the temp differential 10 Deg below my set point are you saying if I want a final temp of 150 I need to set the temp to 140? Pardon my ignorance but if I got it wrong please let me know.

Spring Chicken, I do have the manual and have been going through it all afternoon. I give your suggestion a go tomorrow and let you know how it does.

I think there should be a "setting up the PID for Dummies"

Again, thanks for the help and I'll let you know how I get along.

Oh, How long should the auto tune take?

Greg

 

[P-J]

What I'm trying to say is that you should have your water temp about 10° below your target temp when you start auto tune. i.e. You want to tune it for 155°. Start your auto tune with the water temp at abour 145°.

 

[gregkabob]

P-J thanks, That's what I did originally and it just kept climbing. I'll try it again in the morning.

 

[gregkabob]

Today I tried to get the controller working correctly without luck.

I set the OUTH to 30 and preheated the water to 140 as the controller was set to 150. At 140 I started the auto tune. It seemed like it was working and holding the temp at 150 and then it climbed to 167 after running for 1.5 hours. Shut it down.

I returned all the controller paramenters to factory and set it to manual. Again it hit the temp, held and then started climbing.

It's like the heater just keeps cycling on and off even after it goes past the set temp.

I'm totally stumped on why it's doing it and how to fix it. As for the output reading it's dead on but just is not shutting down heater to keep it at the set temp.

Any other ideas? I really do appreciate all the help.

Greg

 

[stlbeer]

Tell us a more about your setup. What type temp probe are you using? Is the PID configured correctly? Can you confirm that your SSR is working properly? What are the output lights doing on the PID and SSR?

A couple of issues that I've read about that resemble your issue is 1) the SSR is bad. Usually, when SSR's burn out, they do so in the closed position passing current regardless of what the control circuit is doing and 2) if your probe is a thermocouple and your PID is in an unvented control panel, the reference temperature circuit could be getting hot enough to cause the temp to continue to rise.

Something to think about.

 

[gregkabob]

Tell us a more about your setup. What type temp probe are you using? Is the PID configured correctly? Can you confirm that your SSR is working properly? What are the output lights doing on the PID and SSR?

A couple of issues that I've read about that resemble your issue is 1) the SSR is bad. Usually, when SSR's burn out, they do so in the closed position passing current regardless of what the control circuit is doing and 2) if your probe is a thermocouple and your PID is in an unvented control panel, the reference temperature circuit could be getting hot enough to cause the temp to continue to rise.

Something to think about.

Stlbeer. I'm using an Omega thermocouple. The lights on the PID and SSR are both blinking on and off and I measured the voltage at the heating coil and it goes on in unison with the lights coming on. I have it in a box and put vent holes in it. In fact while having the problems I removed the cover to check the SSR and left it ajar while it was working.

I've confermed that it is heating and cycling but doesn't stop when it hits the set temp. It's not that it's blasting to the set temp but just steadily keeps going. I let it go over an hour and a half on auto tune and the temp rose 17 deg past the set temp. On manual it did the same thing.

I really appreciate any and all help and suggestions.

Greg

 

[klyph]

First, set OutH=100, (the default), it should be left that way unless you have a massively overpowered heating element, then make sure manual mode is OFF. Then set At=2 which will engage the Auto Tune. When Auto Tune is over, it will display At=3. Don't turn it off until it turns to At=3, it will overshoot, it will undershoot, that's how it learns the systems heat input capability and the rate at which it cools. I think mine took 3 hours, but I might have gotten distracted during the process.

 

[gregkabob]

klyph, that's the answer I've been looking for as far as how long the auto tune might take. I read in the manual that setting the OUTH to anything less than 100 cuts the output of the heater. So I returned it to 100.

Are there any setting that should be set to a different value (besides temp) than the factory settings? Right now everything is back to factory settings.

I read that some set the P to one.

So tonight when I get out of the office I will:

Bring the water to within ten degrees of the set temp of 150
Put the PID in auto tune and let it run for as long as takes

I'll report back my results.

Thanks much for the help.

Greg

 

[gregkabob]

Success!! I called Auberins today and talked to a guy there about what was going on. He suggested that I turn all the settings back to factory and set the temp to 160 and see if it would hold.

I thought I had all the settings to factory but when I went through the menus I had the A-M set to 0 (manual) instead of 2, the factory setting.

I heated the water with propane until it reached 159 and then turned on the RIMS. It ran great and kept the temp at 160.

I then turned off the heat and let the temp drop to 158 then turned heat back on and turned on the Auto Tune.

Auto tune was completed in less than 10 min and the temp stayed rock solid at 160.

Thanks everyone for you help and support. I'm glad that it's up and running correctly. Now I'm ready to try it out on a brew. It will be a couple of weeks until I'll be able to brew as I have to be out of town next week.

Greg

 

[Stevo2569]

Success!! I called Auberins today and talked to a guy there about what was going on. He suggested that I turn all the settings back to factory and set the temp to 160 and see if it would hold.

I thought I had all the settings to factory but when I went through the menus I had the A-M set to 0 (manual) instead of 2, the factory setting.

I heated the water with propane until it reached 159 and then turned on the RIMS. It ran great and kept the temp at 160.

I then turned off the heat and let the temp drop to 158 then turned heat back on and turned on the Auto Tune.

Auto tune was completed in less than 10 min and the temp stayed rock solid at 160.

Thanks everyone for you help and support. I'm glad that it's up and running correctly. Now I'm ready to try it out on a brew. It will be a couple of weeks until I'll be able to brew as I have to be out of town next week.

Greg

Hell go ahead brew now. You already have your mash water heated up

 

[gregkabob]

Steveo, Thanks for the enchoragment!

I just figured out that not only do I now have a RIMS heater for my beer I also have a sous vide cooker. BONUS (so do all of you with a RIMS)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sous-vide

Greg

 

[stlbeer]

Congrats! Glad to hear you got it working. Now go brew or cook something!

Don't forget, you have to help others in need of ebrewing advice. That's how we keep this community of brewers thing going.

Paul

 

[klyph]

make sure manual mode is OFF

I thought I had all the settings to factory but when I went through the menus I had the A-M set to 0 (manual) instead of 2, the factory setting.