RIMS for Dummies

[humann_brewing]

So what are the optimal numbers for maintaining mash temps and doing a mashout?

I mean, I have seen 1 1/2 x 6, 2x6, 2x8, 2x10 etc for the nipple pipe. I have seen some using 240 elements, some 120 with varied wattage.

What is the advantage of using a 240 element, say 5500w at 120V. Something to do with being able to control the power more?


Anyways, remember I am no Pol here

 

[Sawdustguy]

Thanks Sawdustguy...

You inspired me...

My dual 9000W RIMS tube in the middle... Inspired by this thread.

The pleasure is mine (as I wipe the drool off of my face when looking at the picture of your setup). It just makes me smile when I see systems like yours come to life.

 

[The Pol]

The pleasure is mine (as I wipe the drool off of my face when looking at the picture of your setup). It just makes me smile when I see systems like yours come to life.

This place is a wealth of knowlege... when I started here in '07 I was learning how to convert a cooler. Now... look at what this community can cumulatively build. We just keep building on one anothers ideas... it is INSANE!!

Hope to wire my BCS up this coming week and heat some water at least.

 

[kryolla]

So what are the optimal numbers for maintaining mash temps and doing a mashout?

I mean, I have seen 1 1/2 x 6, 2x6, 2x8, 2x10 etc for the nipple pipe. I have seen some using 240 elements, some 120 with varied wattage.

What is the advantage of using a 240 element, say 5500w at 120V. Something to do with being able to control the power more?

Anyways, remember I am no Pol here

I used this thread parts list which is 2x10. Some people us 240 so they can reach boiling point within a reasonable amount of time. I have propane so I just use 120v just to maintain mash temps. My typical brew day is heat up strike water on my electric stove, mash with RIMS to maintain mash temps (5g cooler with FB), heat sparge water on my stove, use propane to boil wort. So 120v RIMS heater works for my application

 

[Sawdustguy]

So what are the optimal numbers for maintaining mash temps and doing a mashout?

I mean, I have seen 1 1/2 x 6, 2x6, 2x8, 2x10 etc for the nipple pipe. I have seen some using 240 elements, some 120 with varied wattage.

What is the advantage of using a 240 element, say 5500w at 120V. Something to do with being able to control the power more?


Anyways, remember I am no Pol here

The advantage of using a 220 vac 5500 watt element at 120 VAC is that you will be turning the 5500 watt high density element at 220 VAC into an 1125 watt low density element at 120 vac. Because the 220 VAC 5500 watt element is physically longer you are spreading the 1125 watts over a larger surface area, therefor lowering the watt density and preventing scortching.

 

[CodeRage]

...therefor lowering the watt density and preventing scortching.

Allegedly

 

[humann_brewing]

The advantage of using a 220 vac 5500 watt element at 120 VAC is that you will be turning the 5500 watt high density element at 220 VAC into an 1125 watt low density element at 120 vac. Because the 220 VAC 5500 watt element is physically longer you are spreading the 1125 watts over a larger surface area, therefor lowering the watt density and preventing scortching.

Ahh that is what I was looking for that is nice. So does it just depend on how you wire it to the pid?

 

[CodeRage]

Ahh that is what I was looking for that is nice. So does it just depend on how you wire it to the pid?

No, it maters how you wire the element. You wire one side to one of the legs, and the other side to the neutral. You will use an SSR to open and close the circuit. The PID tells the SSR to turn on which turns on the element. If you add a second SSR and replaced the Neutral with the other 240v leg the element will now run at 240.

I think the electrical primer goes over this.

 

[Sawdustguy]

Allegedly

Only time will tell.....

 

[kryolla]

The advantage of using a 220 vac 5500 watt element at 120 VAC is that you will be turning the 5500 watt high density element at 220 VAC into an 1125 watt low density element at 120 vac. Because the 220 VAC 5500 watt element is physically longer you are spreading the 1125 watts over a larger surface area, therefor lowering the watt density and preventing scortching.

if you dont plan on using 220 then why not just get a 120v element for RIMS tube. I think a 220 heating element is for people that only use electric so they can get the wort up to boiling point.

 

[The Pol]

if you dont plan on using 220 then why not just get a 120v element for RIMS tube. I think a 220 heating element is for people that only use electric so they can get the wort up to boiling point.

Watt density

 

[kryolla]

Watt density

can't you get a 120v 1500 watt ld or uld

 

[Sawdustguy]

if you dont plan on using 220 then why not just get a 120v element for RIMS tube. I think a 220 heating element is for people that only use electric so they can get the wort up to boiling point.

If someone can not get their hands on a suitable 120 volt low density element, a higher wattage high density 220 volt element may be used at 120 volts. The 220 voltage element is much longer and when used at lower voltage the heat is spread over a larger area therefore lowering the watt density of the element. When using a 220 volt or 240 volt element at 120 volts the power is devided by 4. A suitable 120 volt low density element for your RIMS tube can be difficult to find sometimes.

 

[Sawdustguy]

can't you get a 120v 1500 watt ld or uld

120 volt LD can be found but often out of stock. 120 volt ULD's are damn near impossible to find. There are also some guys who are experimenting with using the RIMS tube as an on-demand hot water source for strike water using a 220 volt HD element at 220 volts and switching the element to 120 volts for maintaining mash temperature and recirculating. Do a member search on Sizz, he is experimenting on such a system using only two vessels.

 

[kryolla]

Thanks Sawdustguy

 

[jtrainer]

Depends on what sort of circuit it is on? 15A? 20A?

1500W is about 12.5A
March 809 is about 1.2A

So you can run it on a 15A, but you are getting up there, really up there.

Thanks for the reply... My house was wired with aluminum wiring (Yuk) I have replaced some of the wire and run a 30A circuit to the garage that I split to a 20 and 15 ( I never max them out at the same time, 15 A for music and light, 20 A for tools.) Note other than the march pump, I won't use the aluminum wire for the heating elements.

Without running a 220V circuit what's the best heater element I can expect to use if I wanted to boil my beer without gas?

 

[The Pol]

Thanks for the reply... My house was wired with aluminum wiring (Yuk) I have replaced some of the wire and run a 30A circuit to the garage that I split to a 20 and 15 ( I never max them out at the same time, 15 A for music and light, 20 A for tools.) Note other than the march pump, I won't use the aluminum wire for the heating elements.

Without running a 220V circuit what's the best heater element I can expect to use if I wanted to boil my beer without gas?

If you are going to boil a 5 gallon batch, you would need two elements at 120VAC. Either (2) 1500W elements or (2) 2000W elements, at a minimum.

If you are doing smaller batches, you can get away with less.

 

[JayInJersey]

I am currently trying to kick the gas and use two "heatsticks" and some LP to boil my wort. (5G batches so 7G 90m boils)

I've never tried to ONLY use the sticks to get the sparge to boiling, but when I use the two 1500w sticks and some LP I can get to boiling in about 5m (10m during a snow storm)...and can hold it with the 2 1500w's.

The boil was very very slow [but boiling] during that snow storm though and I had to put it back on the gas to get my wort to 5.5G...my BK has no insulation though.

FWIW I plan to do a 2000w heatstick for my next batch and see if the boil is a bit more rolling. Barring another snowstorm I think 3500w (200w and 1500w sticks) should be able to keep it nice and rolling.

 

[jtrainer]

If you are going to boil a 5 gallon batch, you would need two elements at 120VAC. Either (2) 1500W elements or (2) 2000W elements, at a minimum.

If you are doing smaller batches, you can get away with less.

And for 10 Gal batches, can the dual 2K elements handle that too or is that just pushing it?

 

[The Pol]

And for 10 Gal batches, can the dual 2K elements handle that too or is that just pushing it?

4000W will do it... but that is as low as I would go. It will take a little but to reach a boil. I used 3700W to maintain a boil in 5 gallon batches that start at 7.5 gallons.

10 gallons from 165F to BOIL is 18 minutes.

So if you start with 13g it will take 24 minutes.

 

[jtrainer]

Pol, Thanks that was very helpful. I think propane is my fuel for now and the RIMs tube for maintaining my mash temps.

 

[humann_brewing]

Is there much difference besides size between the 2 PIDs mentioned?

http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=106

http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=102

 

[CodeRage]

Is there much difference besides size between the 2 PIDs mentioned?

http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=106

http://auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=102

the 1/4 is two times the size of the 1/16th.

the manuals have the physical dimensions

 

[humann_brewing]

the 1/4 is two times the size of the 1/16th.

the manuals have the physical dimensions

So that it's though, no mechanical differences or advantages to one over the other. Besides the size of course.

 

[CodeRage]

A quick look at the specs, the larger one comes with a relay and an out put for an SSR. The relay contacts are rate for 7 amps versus 3 Amps on the smaller. Other than that I don't see a major difference. Never used one of the bigger ones so I cant be 100%. You would have to compare the manuals item for item to know for sure.

 

[humann_brewing]

A quick look at the specs, the larger one comes with a relay and an out put for an SSR. The relay contacts are rate for 7 amps versus 3 Amps on the smaller. Other than that I don't see a major difference. Never used one of the bigger ones so I cant be 100%. You would have to compare the manuals item for item to know for sure.

Ok thanks, now one more question since I am in a Dummies thread. I want to hook a march pump to this so it turns it on/off accordingly when the heat is on. Is that what the output you are talking about is for.

Oops I see you said it was for an SSR, now I am confused, why would you want one without an output for an SSR and can I hook my march pump up to these to turn on and off with the heather?

 

[ScubaSteve]

4000W will do it... but that is as low as I would go. It will take a little but to reach a boil. I used 3700W to maintain a boil in 5 gallon batches that start at 7.5 gallons.

10 gallons from 165F to BOIL is 18 minutes.

So if you start with 13g it will take 24 minutes.

So how would you best supply power to the 2 elements if you were going to use exclusively 120VAC? Would you have to plug them in at different parts of the house? I have 220 in my house, but I like the idea of being able to use 120VAC as it can be found anywhere.

 

[The Pol]

So how would you best supply power to the 2 elements if you were going to use exclusively 120VAC? Would you have to plug them in at different parts of the house? I have 220 in my house, but I like the idea of being able to use 120VAC as it can be found anywhere.

I mean, the outlets could be right next to one another, but they have to be on separate circuits.

 

[CodeRage]

Ok thanks, now one more question since I am in a Dummies thread. I want to hook a march pump to this so it turns it on/off accordingly when the heat is on. Is that what the output you are talking about is for.

Oops I see you said it was for an SSR, now I am confused, why would you want one without an output for an SSR and can I hook my march pump up to these to turn on and off with the heather?

It has two outputs, I think. You may want to double check. But, what I thought I read was one relay contact and one SSR driver. So you can switch the pump with the relay contact and use an ssr for the element

 

[humann_brewing]

Ok, got the first order done Thanks for the help

Qty. Item Name Total
1 x 40 A SSR $19.00
1 x 1/4 DIN PID Temperature Controller * Output Configuration: Relay Contactor $59.50
1 x Liquid tight RTD sensor, 2” probe, 1/4 NPT Thread $29.95