REX-C100 PID (cheapest PID on ebay)

[v12nut]

Thanks Betadave, I will check it out.
cheers

 

[v12nut]

Hi,
OK, I powered the pid up and found a switched 14v supply to the relay, no 5v that I could find.
Removed the relay and jumped the supply to the terminals, I now have 14v to the SSR which is within range so I think I am good to go!
cheers

 

[ferari12]

I would like to use the Thermoworks Pro-Series Needle Probe with the Rex c-100 PID. The manual says that the device uses a thermistor. Does anybody know the settings for the PID that will make it work with this probe?
thanks!

 

[augiedoggy]

I would like to use the Thermoworks Pro-Series Needle Probe with the Rex c-100 PID. The manual says that the device uses a thermistor. Does anybody know the settings for the PID that will make it work with this probe?
thanks!

Unfortunately that doesnt really narrow anything down to tell us what type of probe it is... You could put the probe in some ice water and try different probe type settings till it reads right.

 

[mattd2]

Unfortunately that doesnt really narrow anything down to tell us what type of probe it is... You could put the probe in some ice water and try different probe type settings till it reads right.

If it is a thermistor probe it will not work - from the REX manual the only probe input types are thermocouples or RTD.

 

[robberbaron]

For all you people that are hooking up SSRs to mechanical relay inputs, beware you are likely to burn your house down if you do not lower the cycle time to below a second. Mechanical relays are driven in long intervals to reduce mechanical wear from switching back and forth. SSRs like quick switching, but long intervals can cause expansion and contraction that can cause the parts to fail or even decouple from heat sinks or from the heat dissipating casing. This could cause a meltdown:

 

[robberbaron]

also, speaking of fire hazards, this guys does a teardown and analysis of those 25 amp SSRs they sell super cheap and makes a pretty good argument that they are probably no good over 10 amps:

 

[augiedoggy]

also, speaking of fire hazards, this guys does a teardown and analysis of those 25 amp SSRs they sell super cheap and makes a pretty good argument that they are probably no good over 10 amps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxEhxjvifyY

Yeah this is true and its has been covered in a few threads including one recently started by alphaomega... Only its 12 amps from what Ive seen. these are only the fotek knockoffs and possibly other brands that use the same generic manufacturer like POSSIBLY the mypin and inkbird as well as the white ones ebrew supply used to sell but appears to be discontinuing. there are many other brands and designs of SSRs that do not have these issues. These white ssrs are manufactuered for about one dollar... bottom of the barrel when it comes to an SSR relay.

If the ssr came bundled with the rex pid like mine did theres a very good chance its one of these 12A models though.


As far as long cycle times being a fire hazard?

I have been servicing equipment that uses SSR's to cycle heating elements for fairly long periods of time to maintain constant temps and I have never seen an issue from it in the 20 years Ive been doing it.

 

[morzh]

Been a while since that thread had opened...

Wanted to share: on eBay there sometimes are the real ones, not counterfeits being sold.
About a month ago while dealing with a real one at work bought directly from RKC Instruments (for cooling prj) I decided to see if they are sold (used obviously) for reasonable money on the Bay.
They are too!

I bought a heating (reversed action) CB100 used in excellent shape (without the mounting bracket) for the best offer of $22 plus $3 shipping = $25.
I played with it....well, real thing feels good! For starters it is in full agreement with the manual and its list of parameters. Which is more than one needs

Considering the rigmarole I went through with the previous one.....so, look for a real used PID, haggle a bit....they are out there.

Cheers!

Mike.

 

[augiedoggy]

Been a while since that thread had opened...

Wanted to share: on eBay there sometimes are the real ones, not counterfeits being sold.
About a month ago while dealing with a real one at work bought directly from RKC Instruments (for cooling prj) I decided to see if they are sold (used obviously) for reasonable money on the Bay.
They are too!

I bought a heating (reversed action) CB100 used in excellent shape (without the mounting bracket) for the best offer of $22 plus $3 shipping = $25.
I played with it....well, real thing feels good! For starters it is in full agreement with the manual and its list of parameters. Which is more than one needs

Considering the rigmarole I went through with the previous one.....so, look for a real used PID, haggle a bit....they are out there.

Cheers!

Mike.

I guess Im missing the point but for $22 you can get the non counterfeit mypin ta4 New which is vastly superior in function and for about $25 you can get the T4d which has the manual pwm mode for controlling the boil as well as fuzzy logic so why buy a limited Celsius only pid which has limited probe connectivity used for the same money?

 

[morzh]

Uhm.....cheap chinese PID some of which (non-counterfeit too) behave as dexcribed here (DOA)

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...tructions-and-general-pid-ssr-info-by-request

VS Not so cheap Japanese for the same price?
I have not seen the TA4 manual, so what kind of superiority are we talking about?

As for C- only, who told you that? C/K in Rex CB100 (And I think in C100) is programmable. Parameter SL2.

Anyway, the topic is about REX and this is why I wrote it: my message was simply "if you are buying counterfeit one, consider finding real thing for a price that is not much higher".

I did not intend to engage in a dispute.

 

[priest77]

Did anybody find out the way how to calibrate REX C100?

 

[augiedoggy]

Uhm.....cheap chinese PID some of which (non-counterfeit too) behave as dexcribed here (DOA)

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...tructions-and-general-pid-ssr-info-by-request

VS Not so cheap Japanese for the same price?
I have not seen the TA4 manual, so what kind of superiority are we talking about?

As for C- only, who told you that? C/K in Rex CB100 (And I think in C100) is programmable. Parameter SL2.

Anyway, the topic is about REX and this is why I wrote it: my message was simply "if you are buying counterfeit one, consider finding real thing for a price that is not much higher".

I did not intend to engage in a dispute.

The mypin controllers do work well and all the reports of malfunctioning Ive seen with them seem to be from lack of understanding of how to wire them up or how to operate them..( yes people wire them wrong and burn them out and many just write it off to be a cheap pid and that was the reason.. when they spend more for a replacement they usually spend a bit more time and making sure they wire it up correctly.) Ive seen many people admit they attempted to wire the mypins up using the pinout diagram made by pj for the auber pids.. they just dont understand what does what and by the time they figure it out it could be too late.

As far as one being cheaper than the other I dont know... I have what I believe to be real RKC instruments rex c100 that came in an RKC box with instructions saying as much too and it shipped from china so...from the research I did and the videos of the rex clones internals mine does appear to be the real deal. Even the aubrins instruments pid are made in china... The aubrines and rkc pids use the exact same plastic cases and I wouldnt doubt they come from the same manufacturer in china.
My Rex c100 ssr output pid works fine but its very limited in versatility and functionality.. for one I work in Fahrenheit and the RKC pid doesnt do that... it does work fine with the RTD probes unlike some of the clones Ive read about.

If your using the pid to control a boil kettle its a no brainer the RKC pid bad choice and inferior to a mypin t4d in this respect. It lacks the manual PWM control mode found on the mypin or auber units that we use to achieve a controlled steady boil without just having the element stay on at 100% power which can have bad side effects depending on the setup.

Now if your saying there are RKC c100 pids out there that do display in Fahrenheit and do have the manual pwm control as well as fuzzy logic pid control for around the same price as the mypins then yeah I would probably agree they would be a good choice other wise IMO I dont see the benefit of using a unit with limited inferior function just because the brand name on it is based out of japan.

The fact is I have never heard one person on this forum who has used both the rex and mypin units say they prefer the rex...Granted like the fotek ssrs most are clones it seems but they are nothing special even when they work as they should.

 

[Glot]

I use a thermocouple type sensor on my REX. I run a recirculating system. I have the sensor in the pipework. When I put another thermometer in the same pipework, I find the REX is out quite a bit. I have tried adjusting the offset and it seems okay for a while. Then next time I go to use it it can be out a few degrees. The controller hold the temp at the indicated temp but the indicated temp is out. Has anyone done a comparison on performance when using the REX with a thermocouple or a thermister sensor?

 

[morzh]

It's not necessarily the PID, could be your T-couple.

 

[priest77]

@Glot
How are you adjusting the offset?

 

[Glot]

Go in to menu and change SC to offset any inaccuracy of the sensor.
Also, if I change to a thermister, I can have a higher resolution. The display may show 67 deg but is it 67 or 67.9? I have just been delaying experimenting as it would mean modifying my plumbing.

 

[priest77]

I have an old mercury thermometer with decimals which was used for laboratories and I am using it for calibrate my c100. Thanks for SC settings @Glot.


Now I have other problem, I've ordered from ebay another c100 but this one is "Berne REX-C100" and the menu differs from my old "RKC REX-C100".
Problem is that I need it to show me decimals of °C because I am using it in my egg incubator. I have PT100 (thermocouple) and I want to use it instead of the K type thermocouple that came with C100.

When I power it on in shows me:

C04

and then

K
999



Then when I enter in settings menu I have this (all with only 3 digits values):

AL1 (050)
SoH (999) this one is locked
ATU (000) this one is locked
P (030
I (240)
d (060)
Ar (025)
T (020)
SC (000)
LCK (000)

When I change LCK to (100) I get:
SL1 (000)
SL2 (000)
SL3 (000)
SL4 (001)
and here everthing is locked except SL4. I think that if I could unlock SL1 that I can change the thermocouple type, but how?

 

[Glot]

Back towards the start of this thread is a link to a better set of instructions than that which came with yours.
To my knowledge, you can only move the decimal when using a thermister and not with a thermocouple but I have not tried this.

 

[Glot]

Try changing Lock to 000 and SL1 to 1000

 

[priest77]

Try changing Lock to 000 and SL1 to 1000

When lock is 000 then I don't have SL(x) at all.

 

[Glot]

Maybe you can't use a thermister with it. Do the instructions say you can or did the seller say you could?
Don't know why everyone is so hung up on a PID type temperature controller. I bought one because it was the cheapest but I do not need to control my rest temperature to within 0.1 deg.

 

[priest77]

Seller gave me the user manual for REX-C100 that is good for "RKC" label, but this "Berne" REX-C100 has different menu.
I already have one RKC and I am using it for chicken egg incubator and that's why I need that temperature precision.

I've made a mistake when I ordered it but next time I will know what to choose

 

[Glot]

Try this manual. The link was posted earlier by someone else. style.oversubstance.net/wp-content/uploads/.../ManualREX-C100.pdf

 

[Glot]

If the item was incorrectly described then just get a refund if you can't make it do the job.

 

[SpentBrains]

It's interesting that the discussion on the Berme REX-C100 continue on this and other threads. I've incorporated 2 in the build I just completed.

I'd started a thread complaining (apparently with a whiney tone) about the actions and representations of an eBay vendor several months ago selling these "knockoff" components. The discussion that ensued, wound up a long time forum member pretty badly. He thought I should just accept a wheelbarrow full of ineffective parts, along with insistence to "do it his way". He told me not to "spout off again". Next he demeaned my character for expecting something I'd bought to work. It went downhill from there. Kinda got under my skin enough to persist and make what I thought were two inferior products, that I initially thought were grossly misrepresented by the seller....WORK.

Well guess what? Finally completed the build. I had a whole host of little idiosyncrasies with the construction and calibration of the two cheapest PIDs in the world, but all the bugs are now worked out. The system is so much better than guess work mashing in a cooler, that it was well worth both the effort and the few bucks I saved. It also got my head into how to install and operate something I previously knew nothing about. For very little cash outlay I have infinitely improved my brew process.

First I had problems with the thermocouples. So to trouble shoot, rather than connecting them directly to the PID, I removed the crimp connectors and soldered up extension wires (an old set of stereo jacks). Good solid connections and aircraft quality heat shrink insulation covered connections. Then I ran the leads through female RCA jacks I'd epoxied through my control box wall. Finally, inside the box and onto the PIDs. Still didn't work right. I swapped TCs back and forth between units and as a last resort, switched polarity on one of the PIDs and bingo... both magically started to read ambient temp. Once I ran a test session, I found that they were within 0.5 degrees in the general vicinity of temps I expected to mash at so I didn't bother with any further calibration.

While brewing Friday, I just laid the boil PID's thermocouple on the brew stand. Didn't see the need to have it read the water temp. Boiling is boiling right? Blew right threw 100 degrees and boiled over. So I cleaned up the mess and finished the boil with propane like I'd always done. Once again buying into the prevalent theory that you really want to be able to manually control your system and the REX just isn't good enough.

This afternoon however, I ran two test in the boil kettle. I now believe that relying on manual mode may be a crutch some folks use rather than designing a good system and LETTING THE PID WORK like it is designed to work. That is, allow it to sense the rate of change while the wort is heating up (learn your system) and make adjustments to pinpoint temperature without excess energy input that can lead to scorched wort and boil overs.

I found this fella's video (below) and will be posting a video reply to his presentation. He argues favorably for NOT NEEDING MANUAL MODE. My concern like I mentioned is scotched wort, but I ran my tests; 1) with a very small and 2) with a very large amount of water in the boil kettle. I found that with better thermal conductivity than I'd previously had (via a new thermal well in my boil kettle) that either way, nearly full or just enough water to cover the element, the REX would would adapt, approach and maintain the boil rate like mudflap72 describes in his video:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeEi1dZAovM[/ame]

 

[SpentBrains]

Here's my response:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohNIBxmeEyE&feature=youtu.be[/ame]

 

[gbittencourt]

Hi
Please try the "complete manual" at: https://www.rkcinst.co.jp/english/pdf_manual/imnzc22e1.pdf
You will find instructions for bias adjustment @ 7.7 PV bias (Pb)

 

[Glot]

I am happy with mine. I use a PT100 so I can see fractions of a degree. With a NTC, if it shows 66 deg, is it 66.1 or 66.9? If you have one with an electromechanical relay, just use that as a master relay to drive a higher current slave relay if you need it. No big deal. The actual model designation tells you exactly what the controller does. You can find plenty of you tubes decoding the number. Check those, work out what you want then make sure the seller is supply that exact model. If you are plugging your heating system in, then the controls should be switching all current carrying conductors feeding the elements and use segregation between the LV and ELV cables and terminals. Pointless having a great brew system if you're dead.

 

[augiedoggy]

It's interesting that the discussion on the Berme REX-C100 continue on this and other threads. I've incorporated 2 in the build I just completed.

I'd started a thread complaining (apparently with a whiney tone) about the actions and representations of an eBay vendor several months ago selling these "knockoff" components. The discussion that ensued, wound up a long time forum member pretty badly. He thought I should just accept a wheelbarrow full of ineffective parts, along with insistence to "do it his way". He told me not to "spout off again". Next he demeaned my character for expecting something I'd bought to work. It went downhill from there. Kinda got under my skin enough to persist and make what I thought were two inferior products, that I initially thought were grossly misrepresented by the seller....WORK.

Well guess what? Finally completed the build. I had a whole host of little idiosyncrasies with the construction and calibration of the two cheapest PIDs in the world, but all the bugs are now worked out. The system is so much better than guess work mashing in a cooler, that it was well worth both the effort and the few bucks I saved. It also got my head into how to install and operate something I previously knew nothing about. For very little cash outlay I have infinitely improved my brew process.

First I had problems with the thermocouples. So to trouble shoot, rather than connecting them directly to the PID, I removed the crimp connectors and soldered up extension wires (an old set of stereo jacks). Good solid connections and aircraft quality heat shrink insulation covered connections. Then I ran the leads through female RCA jacks I'd epoxied through my control box wall. Finally, inside the box and onto the PIDs. Still didn't work right. I swapped TCs back and forth between units and as a last resort, switched polarity on one of the PIDs and bingo... both magically started to read ambient temp. Once I ran a test session, I found that they were within 0.5 degrees in the general vicinity of temps I expected to mash at so I didn't bother with any further calibration.

While brewing Friday, I just laid the boil PID's thermocouple on the brew stand. Didn't see the need to have it read the water temp. Boiling is boiling right? Blew right threw 100 degrees and boiled over. So I cleaned up the mess and finished the boil with propane like I'd always done. Once again buying into the prevalent theory that you really want to be able to manually control your system and the REX just isn't good enough.

This afternoon however, I ran two test in the boil kettle. I now believe that relying on manual mode may be a crutch some folks use rather than designing a good system and LETTING THE PID WORK like it is designed to work. That is, allow it to sense the rate of change while the wort is heating up (learn your system) and make adjustments to pinpoint temperature without excess energy input that can lead to scorched wort and boil overs.

I found this fella's video (below) and will be posting a video reply to his presentation. He argues favorably for NOT NEEDING MANUAL MODE. My concern like I mentioned is scotched wort, but I ran my tests; 1) with a very small and 2) with a very large amount of water in the boil kettle. I found that with better thermal conductivity than I'd previously had (via a new thermal well in my boil kettle) that either way, nearly full or just enough water to cover the element, the REX would would adapt, approach and maintain the boil rate like mudflap72 describes in his video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeEi1dZAovM

I think what got people fired up in the other thread was that you were upset that the cheap fake knock off of another product didn't function exactly the same as a real japanese Rex brand ones that cost a lot more and as soon as you Google "Rex C100" you would find they are like st1000 units and clones being that even though they have the same case they are not all equal.
It would be like me buying a $5 knockoff Gucci purse for my girlfriend but then going on a forum and complaining the Gucci purse isn't holding up like I expected. And the street vender should be accountable for selling me a $5 clone that didn't hold up like the original $300 purse would. It's a fake sold for much less than a real one.. common sense would say I shouldnt assume it will do everything the original would do and just as well.

If the intentions of the manufacturer or the seller were really to sell a quality product regardless of price, it wouldn't have someone else's name and model number on it to deceive the buyer.. you can get a good that's better by leaps and bounds than the Rex knock off for the same price range of a few bucks more with something like a mypin(which are not clones or knock offs) and that why these are not popular here.

There are knock offs that function exactly the same as name brand pids like the auberins knock offs but those ironically are sold as another brand with a different model number and while they are cheap they still cost more than these bare bones units.