Vienna Lager Revvy's Vienna Lager

[Akavango]

Thanks Revvy, knew that it wasn't a second fermentation but wasn't sure if i should rake in a secondary bucket.

60 days is a long time.

 

[Revvy]

Thanks Revvy, knew that it wasn't a second fermentation but wasn't sure if i should rake in a secondary bucket.

60 days is a long time.

Not for perfection. Many beers are lagered or even secondaried for much longer.

 

[BucksPA]

This beer is a homerun 2 weeks in the keg. Bottles aren't carbed yet so other recipients will just have to wait. The safale always ferments through in 10 days or so, so it was shorter than anticipated. I did cold crash and rack to secondary for lagering at 30 days though. Came out very clear. Im impressed and can't wait to brew it again. Gratitude!

 

[dutchcanuck]

Revvy,

I'm following in your footsteps and I currently have a bock 'lagering' in my shed. I have it wrapped in a sleeping bag in order to prevent it from freezing. I plan on kegging it this spring and I have you to thank for inspiring me to do this.

Cheers,
Ken

 

[Akavango]

I was hoping to ghetto lager it but we never got the low temp as we did the last few winter in Ireland. Last year was so cold that water froze in the pipes and the toilet bowl.

So I will have to lager it in my fridge. The problem is that I have 3 beers in fermentation, 1 ale and 2 lagers, that have to be finished by lagering them. The second problem is that I only have a small fridge at home ( big enough for a 33l bucket but not much more when bucket is in the fridge).

So my question is what is the minimum amount of time you can lager it to make it descent? I was thinking 10 days each because I actually need my fridge for food stuff and such.
Should I go longer? or write them off and hope for the best?

 

[Revvy]

I was hoping to ghetto lager it but we never got the low temp as we did the last few winter in Ireland. Last year was so cold that water froze in the pipes and the toilet bowl.

So I will have to lager it in my fridge. The problem is that I have 3 beers in fermentation, 1 ale and 2 lagers, that have to be finished by lagering them. The second problem is that I only have a small fridge at home ( big enough for a 33l bucket but not much more when bucket is in the fridge).

So my question is what is the minimum amount of time you can lager it to make it descent? I was thinking 10 days each because I actually need my fridge for food stuff and such.
Should I go longer? or write them off and hope for the best?

I don't know, it really all depends on if there's "crap" from fermentation that needs to be lagered out of it. It's really one of those things that you do until it's "done."

One thing you might consider. I read MR Wizard's collumn in BYO just about a year ago this month where he was advocating not racking to a secondary and bulk lagering, instead he recommended bottling it and lagering in the bottle.

I am making a classic style Pilsner and was wondering how long I can lager the beer in the secondary fermenter and in the bottles? Is two months in the secondary too long? Should I condition it longer in the secondary or in the bottles?
Dave Wood

I think this question probably will generate two very different answers depending upon who you ask. In this case you asked me and will get my take on it. Let’s back up . . . why lager beer at all? The most common reasons cited for lagering, or aging before serving, are diacetyl reduction, acetaldehyde reduction, clarification and carbonation.

Some folks talk about flavor maturation, flavor mellowing and beer stabilization when they talk about lagering, but these are all different terms for the four objectives I cited. The only thing that should be performed before bottling is clarification, and this only needs to be done partially since yeast is needed for bottle conditioning and the bottle bottom serves reasonably well to keep yeast sediment out of the beer, provided that some care is exercised when moving bottles around and when the beer is poured.

I suggest fermenting your lager until the final gravity is stabilized and then allowing it to sit at the fermentation temperature for a few days to give the diacetyl and acetaldehyde reduction steps a solid head start, if not more than enough time to be complete. Move the beer to a cold place, such as a refrigerator or snow bank for about a week. The cold temperature will knock a lot of the yeast out of solution and make racking easier prior to bottling. I then would rack, prime and bottle.

If you want to hold your Pilsner for a couple of months prior to drinking I would suggest the hold step after bottling because the bottle has everything you need for lagering; yeast, beer, fermentable sugars and a mechanism to hold the carbon dioxide in the container (the bottle cap). This is of course not traditional for lagers. Most lagers brewed in the old days, which is what brewers often reference when discussing “traditional” methods, were aged in large tanks or barrels and then moved into smaller barrels where they would be transported to the tavern for serving.

Can you bottle and fit them all in your fridge or something?

It's funny you posted this question about this particular beer. I'm in the process of trying to build an uber-ghetto lagering box to lager this particular beer.

 

[Akavango]

It would amount of the same 54 pints size bottles or a 33L sized bucket. I haven't racked it in a secondary. I think I will just leave them 10 days in the fridge then bottle. Just wanted to try a lager or 2. No biggies if they are not perfect.
Thanks Revvy.

 

[beeboy]

I brewed this as my superbowl beer this year. Yeah, I've been 'sampling' it. Wow Revvy, this is fantastic! The maltiness of this brew just amazes me! It is one of the best that I have done!

 

[Carrion]

I started 10 gallons of this on Thursday 2/9. I'll know how good it is in about 3 months. I have a fridge for lagering.

 

[Revvy]

Wow guys. I'm honored.

 

[trevorsteen]

Brewed this today. Used southern germany lager yeast (WL838 ). Probably my smoothest brew day to date. Will post results in 60 days.

 

[autobaun70]

Just curious, have you ever lowered the mash temp to dry it out a bit?

 

[Nuggethead]

Great recipe. Brewed this around the first of November and after 60+ days of lagering, it,s great. The only change I made from the original was to drop the mash temp to 151f. Very smooth and well balanced. Will definitely brew again. Great job Revvy!!!

 

[BucksPA]

Also, to make a note again. This is an excellent bottle brew. Some bottles, like hefes require a glass for consumption. This is one of those brews you drink right from the bottle after a day or yardwork, etc

 

[Revvy]

While I've been gathering parts for my keezer, I've started designing little graphics for my tap handles. I've designed just a simple little handle idea with a lamnated graphic for each beer. I'm fiddling with a way just to slip the little laminated graphics into the handles so I can easily change them. But I've made a little Icon that is 2.25" wide x 3" long.

Right now I'm doing the ones for the beers that are going to be regular house beers. This one is obviously one of them.

Here's the one for this beer.

 

[haeffnkr]

Hello,
I picked sixes up of negra modelo and amber dos equis recently and really like that style of beer.
Dos equis seems to have a bit more balanced taste with some adjunts added maybe?
Modelo might have more crystal malts added to it and it is a bit darker.

Anyway - can anyone tell me how close in taste this recipe is to either of those mexican beers?

Thanks Kevin

 

[Revvy]

Hello,
I picked sixes up of negra modelo and amber dos equis recently and really like that style of beer.
Dos equis seems to have a bit more balanced taste with some adjunts added maybe?
Modelo might have more crystal malts added to it and it is a bit darker.

Anyway - can anyone tell me how close in taste this recipe is to either of those mexican beers?

Thanks Kevin

I haven't tasted either of them in years. But I would say this is probably closest to Negra Modelo, but with a bit more flavor.

 

[tommygunn]

Thanks for the great recipe Revvy!

I brewed this back in April, with minor modifications. My LHBS only had caramunich I, which is 39L rather than the 56L caramunich listed in your recipe. I also decided to substitute a bit of munich dark (9L) for some of the vienna malt, to add another level of flavor complexity; it ended up being about 9-10% of the recipe, so mine was about 75% vienna malt.

Overall this is a very nice, drinkable beer that's quite interesting on the palate. I do find it rather heavy compared to most mexican-style vienna lagers on the market, so please don't expect it to be light and easy-drinking like Dos Equis Amber (which I really like too). It's a good fall beer....a bit too heavy for the hot North Carolina summer we're having this year!

If I make this again I think I'll decrease the amount of caramel malt and see how that changes the result. The caramunich of ~10.5% plus crystal 60L of ~5.25% is quite a bit of caramel malt for me....I think it adds a bit too much body and some cloying syrupy sort of notes, at least with the 152-4 mash temp I used. These have mellowed some with 6-8 weeks of lagering, but it's still a bit much for me. Still, it's a great beer!

I'll probably enjoy this beer much more when October comes around, which is kinda the point of a Vienna lager/Oktoberfest style of beer I guess! Most likely I'll keep much of it lagering in the garage fridge/kegerator for the next few months.

Haeffnkr, if you want to make something more like Dos Equis amber I'd aim to decrease the SRM and alcohol by cutting down the caramel malt amount and decreasing the mash temp a bit. A 4% or so ABV beer made with mostly vienna and with a touch of crystal for color/body is likely closer to what you're looking for.

 

[Mrtickel]

Has anyone done a 5 gallon partial mash with this recipe if yes could you please post the recipe for me.
thanks

 

[Brewskier]

Has anyone done a 5 gallon partial mash with this recipe if yes could you please post the recipe for me.
thanks

I'd be interested in hearing about this too.

 

[Duffman870727]

I'm thinking of brewing this soon, question about the hops: How does the aroma profile come out since you are only adding them at the start of the boil? I am an IPA fan, so while I do enjoy a nice lager I prefer it to have a little hop character showing. Would adding another 16gm (0.5oz) at flameout give me the tweak I'm looking for?

 

[Revvy]

I'm thinking of brewing this soon, question about the hops: How does the aroma profile come out since you are only adding them at the start of the boil? I am an IPA fan, so while I do enjoy a nice lager I prefer it to have a little hop character showing. Would adding another 16gm (0.5oz) at flameout give me the tweak I'm looking for?

Then it won't be THIS beer. Most lagers have little if any hop character . This especially is a malt driven lager. There's not SUPPOSED to be any hop flavor or aroma. This isn't a black iPa. It's a specific style of beer, and its brewed true to style.

I can't really speak on extra hops in this recipe since there's not supposed to be any for this style of beer. Some beer styles, and some beer recipes can be played with, my Belgian Blonde for example, some folks use it as a base beer with fruit. Or may change the yeast or hops. That's fine, I think with Belgian Blondes there's some space for exrpession.

But I don't think this one is like this. Viennas are sort of a lost style, there's very few commercial examples out there, and there's very few folks who brew this style. This recipe was create by me through the research cited above. If you're looking to brew a true Vienna lager, then this, I think is, the recipe to brew...As is. Except for perhaps changing to another lager yeast which might lend a different character, but still stay within the style.

But to add different hop additions, because you like hoppier beer, i can't really help you with, because this is not supposed to be a hoppier beer. You might want to look at a cascadian dark ale, if you want something like that.

If you did want to experiment with this, I would day, brew this AS IS the first time.....Then perhaps play with it. But you might find, that this recipe is pretty damn good just as it is.

Have you ever actually had a vienna lager? Why don't you try some commercial examples before you decide to change this one....Not every beer you brew has to be the same, does it?

 

[zeg]

I put together a PM version of this. It's my first lager, and the yeast choice is driven because I am going to do some bocks, so this was something of a "giant starter" for those.

My recipe was:

5 lb vienna malt
1 lb caramunich
0.5 lb crystal 60L
mashed at 154°F then sparged to yield about a 3.5 gallon starting boil

24 IBU worth of german spalt select at 60 min.

3.5 lb light DME 15 minutes before the end of the boil

[*]

Topped up to about 5.75 gallons (including probably half a gallon of trub and hops debris) and fermented with a decanted 3L WLP833 German Bock Yeast starter, using two vials. This hit the OG right on the nose, but you will probably need to tweak numbers based on your process efficiency a little bit. These numbers work for about 60% efficiency.

I used spalt select because I have it lying around. By no means do I suggest that this is a good idea, but it's what I did. As I said, I've not done any lagers before. This one is nearing the end of primary and will go to lager this weekend. The sample today, at about 1.012 SG, was very encouraging flavor-wise.

[*] I am a bit frightened to admit this, but in a gametime decision, I added another ounce of spalt select at 10 minutes. Obviously, for the reasons Revvy expressed above, that blows the style on this one. In this case, I opted to in order to get a better feel for the character of this variety of hops. If you're aiming to do a PM version of this, definitely stick to the original hops schedule. From what I've tasted so far, I will definitely be doing this recipe again, and I think next time I will stick to Revvy's hops recipe.

 

[Revvy]

Sounds good Zeg let me know how it turns out. I can't wait to hear when you do it with my original hops. You might have come up with the pm version of this beer.

 

[m_stodd]

What a coincidence, just today I decided I would try my first lager, then was hoping someone on this thread would post a PM.

Going to give zeg's recipe a shot with Hallertauer hops. I'll try to report back in a few months.

 

[sonex]

revvy, your recipe looks nice. I usually don't like to alter lager recipes but I have all the ingredients for this vienna except the haller, what do you think of subing in tettnanger? I have 3/4 pound of this and since its a good german hop being utilized at 60 min as a bittering addition thought it would work. your thoughts.

 

[Revvy]

revvy, your recipe looks nice. I usually don't like to alter lager recipes but I have all the ingredients for this vienna except the haller, what do you think of subing in tettnanger? I have 3/4 pound of this and since its a good german hop being utilized at 60 min as a bittering addition thought it would work. your thoughts.

It should work fine. It's a noble hop. And it's only enough hopping on beers like this to bitter. Not necessarily to flavor it too much. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[sonex]

It should work fine. It's a noble hop. And it's only enough hopping on beers like this to bitter. Not necessarily to flavor it too much. Let us know how it turns out.

good you agree, I sure will report back.

 

[Duffman870727]

So I had to search around and really the only commercial vienna available to me is from king brewery. I tried it and liked it so I brewed a 3 Gal batch of your recipe as is. I didn't realize style would be so limiting to experimentation, need to educate myself some more I guess. Im just about a week into primary with this, darker than I anticipated, what do you think? My first lager brew so im looking forward to opening the first bottle!

 

[atri]

Had a great time brewing this on my front porch. Had to do it because of rain. As it turns out the porch is a great place to brew!

Thanks for the recipe Revvy! I scaled it to 23L and used 50g of Saaz as I was short on the hallertau.

SG was higher than expected: 1060.

Made a 2l starter with wyeast Munich lager.