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Vienna Lager Revvy's Vienna Lager

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Revvy

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Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
Saflager s-23 or favorite
Yeast Starter
n/a for dry
Batch Size (Gallons)
5
Original Gravity
1.051
Final Gravity
1.010
Boiling Time (Minutes)
60
IBU
23.5
Color
12.7
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
30 @ 55F
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
30 @ 35F
Tasting Notes
Tastes great.
This Vienna netted me an honorable mention in the Bjcp sponsored Michigan Renaissance Festival's "Beer Baron's Brew Brawl, 2009."

Grain

Amount Item Type % or IBU
8 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 84.21 %
1 lbs Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 10.53 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.26 %

Hops
38.30 gm Hallertauer [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 23.5 IBU

Yeast
1 Pkgs SafLager West European Lager (DCL Yeast #S-23) Yeast-Lager
(Or use your favorite lager yeast)

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 9.50 lb

Mash @ 154.0 F/60 minutes (Add 11.88 qt of water at 165.9.)

Sparge [email protected] 168 (4.42 gal)

Primary Fermentation: 30 Days @ 55F
(D-rest 72 hours before switching to secondary and lagering)
Secondary Fermentation: 30 Days @ 35F

(But lager how you normally prefer)


Info


Measured Original Gravity: 1.051 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.37 %
Bitterness: 23.5 IBU
Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 12.7 SRM

:mug:
 

ohiobrewtus

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Looks nice! What's the ferment temp and how long did you lager it (and at what temperature)?
 
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Revvy

Revvy

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Looks nice! What's the ferment temp and how long did you lager it (and at what temperature)?
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 30 Days @ 55F
(D-rest 72 hours before switching to secondary and lagering)
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 30 Days @ 35F

(But lager how you normally prefer)

Thanks, It's pretty tasty. I'm going to be brewing a 10 gallon batch with a buddy in the next couple weeks, we were both given sacks of vienna at "Teach a Friend to Homebrew Day." So it seemed perfect to dig this up.

The recipe was created while listening to this Basic Brewing episode;

December 29, 2005 - Vienna Lagers
We talk to Chris Colby of Brew Your Own magazine about Vienna Lagers, a style favored south of the border. Chris takes us through the style and how to make great Vienna lagers at home.

Click to listen-MP3
There's also some good articles as well.

http://***********/component/resource/article/1935-vienna-lager-tips-from-the-pros

http://***********/component/resource/article/1597-vienna-lager-in-exile
 

Pappers_

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Hey friend. Do you have a temp controlled fermentation chiller or how do you control the temps for fermentation? Thanks,
 

Pappers_

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No, I just "ghetto lagered" this. I fermented it in the storage cupboard of my loft's garage, then lagered it at a friends for a month.
Yeah, I've not done lagers because my temp control is similar - based on the basement, garage or swamp cooler. Hmmm the garage might be ok, but at this time of year it might be dropping down to the lower range of the lager yeast . . . . will need to explore this.

Thanks!
 
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Revvy

Revvy

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Yeah, I've not done lagers because my temp control is similar - based on the basement, garage or swamp cooler. Hmmm the garage might be ok, but at this time of year it might be dropping down to the lower range of the lager yeast . . . . will need to explore this.

Thanks!
I just sort of discovered last winter that my garage storage area was actually pretty cool to downright cold as the winter progressed, So I actually did a bunch of lagers after this where I didn't bother taking it to a friend's fridge to lager. I just racked them to secondary and put them back in there, it wasn't in the 30's but more like 40's, dipping deeper at night. And they all turned out great.

There is a good thread about that here' https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/lagering-outside-134652/
 

ohiobrewtus

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Ya know, I skimmed the recipe twice and still didn't see the lager temps so I asked. Right there in front of me the whole time. DOH!
 
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Revvy

Revvy

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Ya know, I skimmed the recipe twice and still didn't see the lager temps so I asked. Right there in front of me the whole time. DOH!
It's been awhile since I added a recipe to the database, and it seems to me the fields have changed in the last couple years. So I wasn't sure I typed it in to begin with.:mug:
 

skyzo

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Hey Revvy, I've been dying to make a lager, but haven't had the chance for the last few months, so this coming weekend I'll finally have some time to brew something and this looks awesome. But the only thing, I'm not set up for AG just quite yet (soon), and wanted to brew this. So I threw together an extract recipe based on some ingredients I already have, and I think it looks alright, but what do you think?

5lb Extra Light DME
.5lb caravienne
.5lb crystal 60l
1.3oz Tettanger (60 min)
and some S-23.

Also, did you just pitch one packet of the dry yeast in the cooled wort?
Thanks
 

hopdawg

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Hey Revvy,
I'm cookin up your Vienna Lager as we speak. I only had a Nottinghams yeast so it will be a suedo lager. I'll ferment at the low end and live with the less than ideal results (par for the course when you live in the boonies).
I listened to the pod cast by Chris Colby, a good listen for sure. Can you shed some light on a comment he made about racking off of the primary yeast at the precise time. Up to now I've parked my lagers in my cold box at 50ishF for 30 days then lagered. How do I judge/measure this precise time he spoke of?
 

teach

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According to my calculations, a beer that starts at 1.051 and ends at 1.010 ought to be 167 calories per 12 fl. ounces, or 222 calories per (16-ounce) pint.
 

Hotspur

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Well I just cut and pasted my recipe from beersmith. Honestly I don't know....
Beersmith sets the default measured OG to 1.010 and FG to 1.005, and it calculates the caloric content from measured values, not expected. It drove me nuts for a while until I figured it out, so I just fix that by hand when I'm done with the grain bill, and update it after each measurement. It'd be nice if it defaulted to the expected, but having it be different reminds you to fill it in, I suppose.
 

CaliBrewin

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how are you getting an OG of 1.051? brewers friend says that with that grain bill you need to be getting 85% or better efficiency.
 

waldoar15

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Sounds interesting. Did you only pitch one packet of yeast @55 degrees?
 

BrewThruYou

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Took 2nd place in Amber Lager with this at a local homebrew comp. Thanks Revvy.
 

BucksPA

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i think im going to brew this as a decoction this weekend. it will be my first decoction attempt.
 
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Revvy

Revvy

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Let me know how it goes with the decoction.... I was thinking about brewing it tomorrow at "Teach a friend" but I'm not ready for ghetto lagering yet this season.
 

Airborneguy

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Hey Revvy, have you ever made this without the caramel malt? I'm looking to change my recipe (look at the name btw in my sig, its a tribute to you) to an all- or at least close to all-Vienna version and I'm not sure if I'd like the caramel in there.

As a matter of fact, I wonder how this would be with only vienna and a good decoction mash.
 
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Revvy

Revvy

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Hey Revvy, have you ever made this without the caramel malt? I'm looking to change my recipe (look at the name btw in my sig, its a tribute to you) to an all- or at least close to all-Vienna version and I'm not sure if I'd like the caramel in there.

As a matter of fact, I wonder how this would be with only vienna and a good decoction mash.
No, I've based this on Chris Colby's research in the bYO and Basic Brewing pieces, and he says a tiny bit of caramel in the recipe is ok....

The only sub I've ever done was doing a 10 gallon batch where we were short like 2 pounds of vienna in our grainbill and we had cleaned out 2 stores...so we just went with two pounds of two row. It was still a good beer.
 

Airborneguy

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How you seen Jamil's recipe? I don't think it even comes close after having brewed it. It's a mix of munich, vienna and pilsner. Yours is much closer than that. I'm thinking yours without the caramel and a single or double decoction for my next attempt.
 

BucksPA

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Let me know how it goes with the decoction.... I was thinking about brewing it tomorrow at "Teach a friend" but I'm not ready for ghetto lagering yet this season.
That "detroitish" area isn't cold enough yet for some ghetto lagering? In southeast PA we aren't ready yet, luckily for me I have a Johnson Control in my chest freezer as well as a heater. The only thing that is hurting me is that I will have to observe the weather and switch between heat and cool manually. This weekend is chilly and next weekend is warm. My garage fluctuates a lot at this time of year.
 

BucksPA

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so i brewed it up single infusion...was planning on d-coc but had to invest in a 5 gallon kettle and didnt feel like rushing that purchase. anyway, held 154 for the mash, ended up putting too much runnings into the boil kettle, so i boiled away for a few minutes longer before starting my 60 minute hop addition and ended up at 1.055 and 11.25 gallons into fermenters instead of 1.052 and 11.5 gallons in the fermenter. i'll consider it a success.

My question though, being that I've never used S-23, is this. Is 30 days in the primary a bit too long? It's been 26 hours in the primary at 53 degrees in my chest freezer and already at high krausen, bubbling away. I think on the short side this will ferment out in 1-2 weeks, 3 on the low side. I was planning on doing a Diacetyl rest to be safe, but am told to do that when fermentation is >75% finished. So if it's at 1.020 in a week, pull it out for 48 hours, rack to secondary and lager????? What are your thoughts about a short primary ferment and then maintaining a 30 day period of lagering versus holding to 30 days in the primary and then lagering, both ways after a 2 day diacetyl rest?

danke
 

Akavango

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Revvy,

Quick question, I brewed this recipe this week end. You recommend to ferment at a temp and then do a second fermentation at a second temp.

I remember having a discussion with you about second fermentation. You stated that it wasn't necessary to change bucket and that you could have a better result while keeping it in the same bucket until bottling..

Is the second fermentation just about the change of temperature or should i consider changing bucket too?

Thanks
if this one is as good as the leffe, i can't wait to taste it.
 
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Revvy

Revvy

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That's not a real seconday fermentation, that's just how Beersmith lists the lagering step. Your letting the beer mellow in the cold to clean up. I still leave my beer in primary for a month, then do a d-rest, rack it to a secondary and then let it lager in the cold for a few weeks.
 

Homercidal

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I was planning on making this for my first decoction, but sadly I am out of Vienna.

I'll double check, but I think I used it all up and almost out of munich as well.
 

Akavango

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Thanks Revvy, knew that it wasn't a second fermentation but wasn't sure if i should rake in a secondary bucket.

60 days is a long time.
 

BucksPA

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This beer is a homerun 2 weeks in the keg. Bottles aren't carbed yet so other recipients will just have to wait. The safale always ferments through in 10 days or so, so it was shorter than anticipated. I did cold crash and rack to secondary for lagering at 30 days though. Came out very clear. Im impressed and can't wait to brew it again. Gratitude!
 

dutchcanuck

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Revvy,

I'm following in your footsteps and I currently have a bock 'lagering' in my shed. I have it wrapped in a sleeping bag in order to prevent it from freezing. I plan on kegging it this spring and I have you to thank for inspiring me to do this.

Cheers,
Ken
 

Akavango

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I was hoping to ghetto lager it but we never got the low temp as we did the last few winter in Ireland. Last year was so cold that water froze in the pipes and the toilet bowl.

So I will have to lager it in my fridge. The problem is that I have 3 beers in fermentation, 1 ale and 2 lagers, that have to be finished by lagering them. The second problem is that I only have a small fridge at home ( big enough for a 33l bucket but not much more when bucket is in the fridge).

So my question is what is the minimum amount of time you can lager it to make it descent? I was thinking 10 days each because I actually need my fridge for food stuff and such.
Should I go longer? or write them off and hope for the best?
 
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Revvy

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I was hoping to ghetto lager it but we never got the low temp as we did the last few winter in Ireland. Last year was so cold that water froze in the pipes and the toilet bowl.

So I will have to lager it in my fridge. The problem is that I have 3 beers in fermentation, 1 ale and 2 lagers, that have to be finished by lagering them. The second problem is that I only have a small fridge at home ( big enough for a 33l bucket but not much more when bucket is in the fridge).

So my question is what is the minimum amount of time you can lager it to make it descent? I was thinking 10 days each because I actually need my fridge for food stuff and such.
Should I go longer? or write them off and hope for the best?
I don't know, it really all depends on if there's "crap" from fermentation that needs to be lagered out of it. It's really one of those things that you do until it's "done."

One thing you might consider. I read MR Wizard's collumn in BYO just about a year ago this month where he was advocating not racking to a secondary and bulk lagering, instead he recommended bottling it and lagering in the bottle.

Mr Wizard March/April 2011 said:
I am making a classic style Pilsner and was wondering how long I can lager the beer in the secondary fermenter and in the bottles? Is two months in the secondary too long? Should I condition it longer in the secondary or in the bottles?
Dave Wood


I think this question probably will generate two very different answers depending upon who you ask. In this case you asked me and will get my take on it. Let’s back up . . . why lager beer at all? The most common reasons cited for lagering, or aging before serving, are diacetyl reduction, acetaldehyde reduction, clarification and carbonation.

Some folks talk about flavor maturation, flavor mellowing and beer stabilization when they talk about lagering, but these are all different terms for the four objectives I cited. The only thing that should be performed before bottling is clarification, and this only needs to be done partially since yeast is needed for bottle conditioning and the bottle bottom serves reasonably well to keep yeast sediment out of the beer, provided that some care is exercised when moving bottles around and when the beer is poured.

I suggest fermenting your lager until the final gravity is stabilized and then allowing it to sit at the fermentation temperature for a few days to give the diacetyl and acetaldehyde reduction steps a solid head start, if not more than enough time to be complete. Move the beer to a cold place, such as a refrigerator or snow bank for about a week. The cold temperature will knock a lot of the yeast out of solution and make racking easier prior to bottling. I then would rack, prime and bottle.

If you want to hold your Pilsner for a couple of months prior to drinking I would suggest the hold step after bottling because the bottle has everything you need for lagering; yeast, beer, fermentable sugars and a mechanism to hold the carbon dioxide in the container (the bottle cap). This is of course not traditional for lagers. Most lagers brewed in the old days, which is what brewers often reference when discussing “traditional” methods, were aged in large tanks or barrels and then moved into smaller barrels where they would be transported to the tavern for serving.
Can you bottle and fit them all in your fridge or something?

It's funny you posted this question about this particular beer. I'm in the process of trying to build an uber-ghetto lagering box to lager this particular beer.
 

Akavango

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It would amount of the same 54 pints size bottles or a 33L sized bucket. I haven't racked it in a secondary. I think I will just leave them 10 days in the fridge then bottle. Just wanted to try a lager or 2. No biggies if they are not perfect.
Thanks Revvy.
 

beeboy

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I brewed this as my superbowl beer this year. Yeah, I've been 'sampling' it. Wow Revvy, this is fantastic! The maltiness of this brew just amazes me! It is one of the best that I have done!
 

Carrion

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I started 10 gallons of this on Thursday 2/9. I'll know how good it is in about 3 months. I have a fridge for lagering.
 
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