Request: Bud Light Clone Recipe

[LBussy]

I think making jokes about the beer is perfectly acceptable - so long as you are skilled enough to make it. How's that for a rule?

 

[tootal]

I have no problems with joking. Hell, I ask my bartender at my local micro for a Bud Light Lime and everybody looks at me like I'm crazy for asking but when he hands me some ice water with a lime everybody laughs! I mean most people call Bud Clydesdale piss. I just don't like it when they actually say falsehoods as facts. Of all the things they've done over the years that I disagreed with the one thing they've always had was their quality. It really is their most important objective.

As someone who maintained the equipment I know they even tested gasket materials to make sure they had no impact on taste or odor. When a beer is that light anything can give you an off flavor.

 

[LBussy]

So this blending water. It's carbonated? Would it be treated with some sort of base like gypsum or whatever to balance the pH?

 

[tamac38]

2.25 lbs.6 row
3.6 lbs. Pilsner
3.15 lbs. Rice - I used long grain
.25 Oz's. Hallertau 60 min. Boil
.15 ozs Willamette 10 min. Boil

Mash 60 min. @ 148 degrees
Boil 60 min.
5 gal. Total

Turned out pretty close to BL, but was much more flavorful.

Good luck !

 

[GrogNerd]

2.25 lbs.6 row
3.6 lbs. Pilsner
3.15 lbs. Rice - I used long grain
.25 Oz's. Hallertau 60 min. Boil
.15 ozs Willamette 10 min. Boil

Mash 60 min. @ 148 degrees
Boil 60 min.
5 gal. Total

Turned out pretty close to BL, but was much more flavorful.

Good luck !

flavor is a flaw in a BL clone

like I said, pilsner is too much flavor for a clone

 

[tootal]

So this blending water. It's carbonated? Would it be treated with some sort of base like gypsum or whatever to balance the pH?

I don't know the ph. They used to use city water run through carbon filters but now they have an RO system. St. Louis city water is excellent for brewing but St. Louis beer was hard to duplicate elsewhere so they put RO systems in all the breweries and then add what they need to get the water they want. Helps Bud taste the same everywhere.
I do know they use sulfuric acid to adjust the alkalinity. A little dab will do ya!

You might try testing the ph of the beer and making it the same.

 

[mike_57401]

2.25 lbs.6 row
3.6 lbs. Pilsner
3.15 lbs. Rice - I used long grain
.25 Oz's. Hallertau 60 min. Boil
.15 ozs Willamette 10 min. Boil

Mash 60 min. @ 148 degrees
Boil 60 min.
5 gal. Total

Turned out pretty close to BL, but was much more flavorful.

Good luck !

By the way, BL is filtered. I suspect some of the "flavor" absent in BL is due to filtration

 

[estricklin]

It almost seems like cheating to be honest, but then again if we are trying to replicate a flavor, then if they cheat, so must we ;P I have to wait a little longer before I can try my clone, it was too sour and not lagered enough, but the aftertaste was spot on.... so I have high hopes. If this indeed is how to do it to get that more subdued flavor, then I would need to ramp the recipe down to 2.5 gallon, then just top up with treated water.

On a side note, let's keep this thread civil guys, to my knowledge this is the most informative and serious thread for actual talk on this type of beer without it having devolved into jokes about how terrible the beer itself is. Let's keep it that way for anyone BMC and see if we can finally come up with a match for what I am finding to be the hardest brew I have ever done thus far. Ain't no hiding flavors with extra hops in this brew -_-;;

Thank you. I actually take this pretty serious myself, as I've brewed this clone, literally dozens of times, and was dumb enough to brew 25 gallons of it at one time. It's a challenge, but I actually LIKE the beer style too. It's the most popular beer style in the world, and yet homebrewers largely ignore it. No one should have to defend themselves on this forum, for posting about BREWING BEER, no matter the style.

I actually had an opportunity to brew another clone since I posted earlier in this thread, it is lagering now. I used S-23 because I didn't have any 34/70 available, so I don't think it will be as good as it could be. I did do a nice protein rest, and basically followed the recipe/advice I gave earlier, I would be happy to update you with the results when it comes time to taste.

As for the blending mentioned, I still don't think it's necessary, but my attempt was inconclusive. This most recent batch had a tad bit higher OG than I was shooting for, so I may blend it. The pH of the water to be used won't matter much if your using distilled water, since there aren't minerals present to buffer the pH, though if you want to adjust the minerals for taste that is another matter.

I have several things I've been working on for this clone, I really need to find out exactly how AB handles the rice. I'm sure they are doing some decoctions but I have not been able to find out any more of the process.

I have been contemplating doing some beechwood testing. I would like to boil some beechwood with and without a light caustic, in water, and see if I can taste any flavor impact. AB claims there is no flavor impact, but I'm not in the habit of taking things at face value. Would also be willing to try using other objects instead of the beechwood to accomplish the task, anything that floats seems as if it would work. Styrofoam?

 

[nmfree]

the off flavor will make it taste like home brew

ipe:

Ce n'est pas une bière maison.

 

[tootal]

Thank you. I actually take this pretty serious myself, as I've brewed this clone, literally dozens of times, and was dumb enough to brew 25 gallons of it at one time. It's a challenge, but I actually LIKE the beer style too. It's the most popular beer style in the world, and yet homebrewers largely ignore it. No one should have to defend themselves on this forum, for posting about BREWING BEER, no matter the style.

I actually had an opportunity to brew another clone since I posted earlier in this thread, it is lagering now. I used S-23 because I didn't have any 34/70 available, so I don't think it will be as good as it could be. I did do a nice protein rest, and basically followed the recipe/advice I gave earlier, I would be happy to update you with the results when it comes time to taste.

As for the blending mentioned, I still don't think it's necessary, but my attempt was inconclusive. This most recent batch had a tad bit higher OG than I was shooting for, so I may blend it. The pH of the water to be used won't matter much if your using distilled water, since there aren't minerals present to buffer the pH, though if you want to adjust the minerals for taste that is another matter.

I have several things I've been working on for this clone, I really need to find out exactly how AB handles the rice. I'm sure they are doing some decoctions but I have not been able to find out any more of the process.

I have been contemplating doing some beechwood testing. I would like to boil some beechwood with and without a light caustic, in water, and see if I can taste any flavor impact. AB claims there is no flavor impact, but I'm not in the habit of taking things at face value. Would also be willing to try using other objects instead of the beechwood to accomplish the task, anything that floats seems as if it would work. Styrofoam?

I'm glad to see you've had some success in brewing this style, I know it's not easy. As far as the rice, it is milled but I don't know how fine. As a home brewer I use an old blender in the chop mode. Fill it a forth of the way full and chop for ten seconds or so. I don't want powder, just uniform pieces the same length as diameter. Too much powder can stick your mash unless you're brewing in a bag.

They do what's called a cereal mash. You take roughly half as much 6 row as you have rice. Mash it with the rice at 144 degrees for 15 minutes. Raise to 158 for 15 minutes. Raise to 176 for 10 minutes. Bring it to a boil for 15 minutes. You must constantly stir and use just enough heat to maintain a boil or you will scorch it. The water will get soaked up so if it gets too thick just add some more. I make a pretty thin mash in the beginning because of this.

Now I have a brewing partner so if you have a friend that likes to help, now is their time. While somebody is stirring the cereal mash, somebody needs to be setting the rest of the malt at a protein rest. I like using 131 degrees which is high for a typical "protein rest" but with today's malts it works well.

Once your protein rest has been 20 minutes long then add the cereal mash to it. You may not need it all to raise the temps to 149 so don't just dump it in. Add some and stir an take a temp reading. Anything left over just let cool to 149 and then add it back in.

If you're by yourself then when the boil of the cereal mash is done turn off your heat and stir for another minute so you don't scorch it. Then set up the rest of the mash. With the cereal mash cooling during the protein rest you may get to use the whole thing at once but don't take my word for it, I would still add and check so you don't overshoot 149.

Now I get comments like I'm an idiot for doing all that work when you can just add rice flakes but I'm convinced anytime you boil part of the mash the results are worth it.

Now as far as Beechwood? Don't waste your time. It really doesn't add any flavor. I've seen how they prepare it and nothing is going to live through that!

 

[GrogNerd]

No one should have to defend themselves on this forum, for posting about BREWING BEER, no matter the style.

agreed

 

[bigdaddybrew]

I heard a recent show on the Brewing Network. The guy on the show, (don't remember his name) used to work at a Budweiser brewery. He said in the 1980s that the younger son took over and disliked hop aroma so they actually installed a process to remove any remaining hop aroma. He was talking about Budweiser but I guess Budlight has a similar process? So a bit of hops for 60 minute to reach 8 IBU is fine. I have never perceived any hop flavor or aroma in Bud light. With beer so light with so few ingredients, with rice added to lighten the flavor and so little hops that it seems like the most important flavor component would be yeast type and fermentation tempetature and perhaps getting the water right.

 

[nmfree]

I heard a recent show on the Brewing Network. The guy on the show, (don't remember his name) used to work at a Budweiser brewery. He said in the 1980s that the younger son took over and disliked hop aroma so they actually installed a process to remove any remaining hop aroma. He was talking about Budweiser but I guess Budlight has a similar process? So a bit of hops for 60 minute to reach 8 IBU is fine. I have never perceived any hop flavor or aroma in Bud light. With beer so light with so few ingredients, with rice added to lighten the flavor and so little hops that it seems like the most important flavor component would be yeast type and fermentation tempetature and perhaps getting the water right.

From Bitter Brew: The Rise and Fall of Anheuser-Busch and America's Kings of Beer:

Along with the entire A-B hierarchy, August [Busch III] thought Miller Lite tasted thin and watery, so [Andrew] Steinhubl’s recipe for Budweiser Light increased the amount of hops in the mix to give it more flavor... At the time, most European beers had an IBU between 20 and 45. Budweiser had an IBU of 15. For Budweiser Light, Steinhubl bumped the IBU to 17, which was potentially problematic because August didn’t like bitter. In fact, he claimed that whenever he tasted Budweiser that contained a slightly elevated level of hops, he experienced a throbbing sensation in his forehead that he called “head feel.”*
Veterans of tasting sessions with August had seen head feel. It registered on his face as he squinted his eyes, furrowed his brow, and began rubbing his forehead with his forefinger and thumb. But only one other person, Denny Long, ever felt the sensation. “Maybe it was because he trained me to taste,” said Long, who described the feeling as “the onset of a sinus headache right above the eyebrows.” Still, Long said he only experienced head feel once or twice. And most of August’s fellow tasters thought head feel was a figment of his imagination. They’d roll their eyes and exchange looks whenever he brought it up, and joke behind his back: “Yeah, I’ve had head feel, boss. It’s called a hangover.”

* August would eventually decide it wasn’t hops that caused his head feel. Rather it was a certain grade of rice that included broken kernels.

The whole book is interesting reading, especially the part detailing the internal "war" over the IBUs in Bud Lite.

edit: it would help if I finished my

 

[estricklin]

I'm glad to see you've had some success in brewing this style, I know it's not easy. As far as the rice, it is milled but I don't know how fine. As a home brewer I use an old blender in the chop mode. Fill it a forth of the way full and chop for ten seconds or so. I don't want powder, just uniform pieces the same length as diameter. Too much powder can stick your mash unless you're brewing in a bag.

They do what's called a cereal mash. You take roughly half as much 6 row as you have rice. Mash it with the rice at 144 degrees for 15 minutes. Raise to 158 for 15 minutes. Raise to 176 for 10 minutes. Bring it to a boil for 15 minutes. You must constantly stir and use just enough heat to maintain a boil or you will scorch it. The water will get soaked up so if it gets too thick just add some more. I make a pretty thin mash in the beginning because of this.

Now I have a brewing partner so if you have a friend that likes to help, now is their time. While somebody is stirring the cereal mash, somebody needs to be setting the rest of the malt at a protein rest. I like using 131 degrees which is high for a typical "protein rest" but with today's malts it works well.

Once your protein rest has been 20 minutes long then add the cereal mash to it. You may not need it all to raise the temps to 149 so don't just dump it in. Add some and stir an take a temp reading. Anything left over just let cool to 149 and then add it back in.

If you're by yourself then when the boil of the cereal mash is done turn off your heat and stir for another minute so you don't scorch it. Then set up the rest of the mash. With the cereal mash cooling during the protein rest you may get to use the whole thing at once but don't take my word for it, I would still add and check so you don't overshoot 149.

Now I get comments like I'm an idiot for doing all that work when you can just add rice flakes but I'm convinced anytime you boil part of the mash the results are worth it.

Now as far as Beechwood? Don't waste your time. It really doesn't add any flavor. I've seen how they prepare it and nothing is going to live through that!

The idea of grinding the rice into smaller pieces I like, I hadn't thought of it. I've done cereal mashes before, BUT I cooked the rice first after my first try. If the proteins in the rice aren't gelatinized I don't think mashing it would do much good. The main problem I see with this beer, is getting it dry enough, and that means particular attention to the mash conversion. Rice gelatinzies at a higher temperature than most other grains, somewhere around 170F if I remember correctly. Grinding it into smaller pieces may change the whole game, but something tells me it would still need to boil for a while to become fully gelantinized. If your using some form of pre-gelatinized rice then it would not be necessary. If have always wondered if a lower temperature mash is what's really needed, because slightly higher mash temps would favor the rice being converted more easily. Today's malt is highly modified as everyone will say, but as the adjunct percentage goes up the protein rest becomes important.

As you've stated above it can be quite precarious to get the mash temp adjusted properly when doing a cereal mash, I had to experiment but basically ended up with a process that's close to what you mentioned. When I have done a cereal mash, I usually dumped it all into the protein rest at once, and if the mash temp was a little high I left the lid off of my mash tun and stirred to get it down a few degrees, a person could even add some room temp water if need be.

What do they do to prepare the beechwood? If the beechwood itself doesn't contribute flavor, the process as it relates to the yeast might. At one time I believed it to be more of a tradition and marketing ploy, but I am not so sure now.

 

[bigdaddybrew]

I copied this from another forum...

ABInBevAMA,

I work for Anheuser Busch. I'm going to copy my answer to this question from another thread so I don't have to retype it all

The beechwood started use during a brewing era (1876, as the ad indicated) when the microbiology of yeast wasn't fully understood. Many brewers all over the country used wood chips as a process aid - it wasn't unique to Anheuser Busch in the nineteenth century like it is now. They were used to combat premature flocculation and dormant yeast, a condition which caused the beer to stall during fermentation and not "dry out". The wood strips are naturally curly and help hold the yeast in suspension like a bioreactor, counteracting yeast dormancy and allowing the yeast to finish metabolizing the barley sugars. When they say beechwood aging gives the beer a crisp clean flavor, they don't mean from the wood - they mean the beer is crisp because it's not overly sweet (because it was allowed to fully finish fermentation). The wood itself provides zero flavor to the beer - it is thoroughly boiled to remove all flavor before it's ever used in a lagering tank.

Now days the science of brewing has advanced to the point where we could brew without beechwood just fine. We understand what causes flocculation behavior in yeast. The use of beechwood is largely traditional but it still does provide value to the process by speeding up secondary fermentation. If you have any questions about it I could try and answer them.

 

[tootal]

The idea of grinding the rice into smaller pieces I like, I hadn't thought of it. I've done cereal mashes before, BUT I cooked the rice first after my first try. If the proteins in the rice aren't gelatinized I don't think mashing it would do much good. The main problem I see with this beer, is getting it dry enough, and that means particular attention to the mash conversion. Rice gelatinzies at a higher temperature than most other grains, somewhere around 170F if I remember correctly. Grinding it into smaller pieces may change the whole game, but something tells me it would still need to boil for a while to become fully gelantinized. If your using some form of pre-gelatinized rice then it would not be necessary. If have always wondered if a lower temperature mash is what's really needed, because slightly higher mash temps would favor the rice being converted more easily. Today's malt is highly modified as everyone will say, but as the adjunct percentage goes up the protein rest becomes important.

As you've stated above it can be quite precarious to get the mash temp adjusted properly when doing a cereal mash, I had to experiment but basically ended up with a process that's close to what you mentioned. When I have done a cereal mash, I usually dumped it all into the protein rest at once, and if the mash temp was a little high I left the lid off of my mash tun and stirred to get it down a few degrees, a person could even add some room temp water if need be.

What do they do to prepare the beechwood? If the beechwood itself doesn't contribute flavor, the process as it relates to the yeast might. At one time I believed it to be more of a tradition and marketing ploy, but I am not so sure now.

The cereal mash temps are for the 6 row malt to convert at the lower temps. At 176 - 180 the rice gelatinizes and then the boil. I don't understand all the chemistry in the procedure but do it because that's what one of the brew masters said they do. All I know is it works! Our efficiency is always really good.

 

[BobOki]

Ok, small update. I think the beer has lagered enough. So I tasted it side-by-side with a BL and this is pretty close. The BL seems to have a little more crispness to it up-front when you first sip it. My brew has more of a noticeable grain flavor aftertaste than the BL which seems to have nearly zero aftertaste. Now after the aftertaste is gone, that lingering flavor both taste exactly the same.

I am thinking that perhaps I am missing something to make it a little more crisp... and like everyone else said probably need to dilute it after brewing to remove some of that grain aftertaste. As it stands, next to a BL this a very drinkable beer and I think my GFs dad will love it. We will see

 

[kal]

Ok, small update. I think the beer has lagered enough. So I tasted it side-by-side with a BL and this is pretty close. The BL seems to have a little more crispness to it up-front when you first sip it. My brew has more of a noticeable grain flavor aftertaste than the BL which seems to have nearly zero aftertaste. Now after the aftertaste is gone, that lingering flavor both taste exactly the same.

I am thinking that perhaps I am missing something to make it a little more crisp... and like everyone else said probably need to dilute it after brewing to remove some of that grain aftertaste. As it stands, next to a BL this a very drinkable beer and I think my GFs dad will love it. We will see

Water chemistry (IMHO) plays a big part in getting this beer right, ensuring the flavour's as low as possible.

I poked around in the earlier posts in this thread but don't remember seeing where you posted the full recipe/process you ended up doing, including water adjustments. What did you end up doing in the end?

Kal

 

[BobOki]

Water chemistry (IMHO) plays a big part in getting this beer right, ensuring the flavour's as low as possible.

I poked around in the earlier posts in this thread but don't remember seeing where you posted the full recipe/process you ended up doing, including water adjustments. What did you end up doing in the end?

Kal

I used the water profile that was posted at the beginning of the thread by @Gavin C which is the Munich Boiled, and just made needed adjustments from my tap water to meet it. Mash PH was 5.4. The recipe I used is available in the link in my signature. Keep in mind I use Grainfather for my brewing, so my process is a tad..... easier than standard AG brewing

 

[sfish]

Is there an update and feedback from GF Dad?

 

[BobOki]

The first batch was pretty close, but because I started it before we decided we should water it down, it has a lot more rice flavour that standard BL. If I half the recipe ingredients, then water it down it should be spot on.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

So whats the final recipe and methods

 

[estricklin]

I bottled mine yesterday. So far it's really good, but as I may have mentioned in this thread I pitched S-23 instead of my preferred 34/70, so time will tell more. It has aged for months. It finished at 1.003.

 

[applescrap]

I enjoyed reading this straight through. Help, what is the current best recipe? What about precracking the grains and letting them sit awhile to reduce the fresh taste? Diluting and then filtering the beer with expensive fining agents/tools? Im struggling to brew ten gallons in 15 gallon kettle. Love the idea of brewing 5 and diluting to ten. Cant be too expensive in bulk too!

I came up with 4.9# 2 row/6 row
2.1# flaked rice and .4 oz hallertauer. Total $13.55 for 5g batch. Stupid question but are long grain and flaked rice weight interchangeable. I heard a brewer on podcast say he uses jasmine rice in all his beers cause he likes them dry, not bud light just his beers. I want to make light beer not just bud light so I like the idea of jasmine rice.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I read every post on this thread. It seems @tootal has the most credible info as he worked at AB. What I have gotten so far is BL should be 30% rice with a mix of 2 row and 6 row. I didn't see where the % between the two were listed. A few different yeast were mentioned. tootal mentions wyeast American lager yeast so I'm thinking that is 2035? 840 and 34/70 have been used.Multiple hop additions of either Willamette, Hallertau.Saaz at 60 ,20 FO with no times or which ones at specific times. Does anyone have any further insight?
Also its been mentioned a cereal mash is used at AB but I thought minute rice needs no cereal mash.

 

[ba-brewer]

I would guess AB uses raw rice and not minute rice(flaked rice), so they would need to do a cereal mash.

According to Mrmalty WLP840 is from budwiser, and they cross that to wyeast 2007.

I did a standard american lager that turned out well using WLP840 and 20% flaked rice, 20% 6row, 60% 2row.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I would guess AB uses raw rice and not minute rice(flaked rice), so they would need to do a cereal mash.

According to Mrmalty WLP840 is from budwiser, and they cross that to wyeast 2007.

I did a standard american lager that turned out well using WLP840 and 20% flaked rice, 20% 6row, 60% 2row.

I realize AB isn't using Minute rice LOL But it was mentioned here so I guess I'm wondering why if its the same thing everyone doesn't just use minute rice and skip the cereal mash.
I've been looking up wlp840 vs 34/70. It looks like the 840 is only recommended at 50-55 deg ferment temp while 34/70 goes to 70. Recently I've read 34/70 can be bumped to 65 for a fast fement with good results while I'd think the 840 would take much longer at the traditional way? I see the 840 is the Bud strain as mentioned, do you think there is much of a flavor difference? The fast ferment is enticing

 

[ba-brewer]

Flaked rice is going to be more expense to a commercial brewer, why pay someone else to cook and dry the product. For home brew I would use flaked rice for the ease of just adding it to the mash with the malt.

WLP840 says it has a slight fruitiness which is also called out in BJCP guideline for american light lager. Not sure how it would work outside of the recommended range, but if you want to ferment at ale temps then it seems like WLP029 might be a good choice as it is clean with a touch of fruitiness.

 

[schematix]

Anyone ever try to use corn starch in an american lager? Seems like it would be the cheapest and simplest way to go.

 

[RCCOLA]

Anyone ever try to use corn starch in an american lager? Seems like it would be the cheapest and simplest way to go.

I use it all the time. Like using flaked without the gloppy flakes. Mix it in with the dry grain to avoid it marshmallowing up when you dump it in.

And before the uninformed come in claiming haze and thickening--it's the same starch that's in grain and is converted to fermentables in the mash.