Recipe help needed

[shellybaybrewer]

Hi guys, I want to take by brewing to the next step from pre hopped extract kits to extract recipes doing my own hops etc. I found the zombie dust clone on here which is:

Here is the extract/PM conversion:

Batch Size: 5g
Boil Volume: 3g

6.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 70.6 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 11.8 %
0.50 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.9 %
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (60 min) Hops 25.1 IBU
0.75 oz Citra [12.40%] (First Wort Hop) Hops 12.5 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (15 min) Hops 12.4 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (10 min) Hops 9.1 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (1 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
3.00 oz Citra [12.40%] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
SafAle English Ale (S-04)
or
Wyeast 1968

This is assuming a 3g boil, so if you can do a full boil remove the extra oz of hops at 60minutes.

Ferment at 65F for 7-10 days

I understand the hop additions but I'm wondering is this recipe steeping the grains or is this a partial mash recipe? I've doing some research and found out about each process, but how do I know if the recipe is partial mash or steeping? Are partial mash recipes labeled specifically, are all extract recipes all steeping? How do I tell? If the question is super silly sorry guys just couldent find an exact answer. Thanks

 

[neverfadeaway86]

thats alot of DME for it to be a partial mash, I am no expert but I would say is more torwards steeping grains

 

[RM-MN]

It's probably designed as an extract with steeping grains but the pound of Munich could be mashed. If you "steep" the specialty grains in the range of 148 to 158 any base malts will convert as that temperature range is where the enzymes that do the conversion are active. With that in mind, always try to steep your grains in that temperature range and if they contain a base malt that can convert, it will. If it doesn't contain any base malt the grain's flavors will still be extracted.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

+1^ As RM-MN said, the Munich will convert itself and the other grains but you might want to bump it up to 2 lbs to be sure it will convert everything. You can mash (steep) it at 152F for 45 min in 6 qts or so and you'll have a true mini-mash. Then proceed with the rest of the recipe.

 

[chickypad]

Agree with the posts above, probably designed as steeping but IMO it should be done as a partial mash. In general how you would tell is based on the types of grains. There are grains that really should be mashed to get decent contribution from them, for example flaked and other unmalted grains, definitely base malts which I would include Munich in. I don't use melanoidin much but I was under the impression it should be mashed as well. The problem is some recipes don't seem to follow the rules (for example I've seen instructions to steep flaked grains with no base malt to convert, which makes no sense to me). You could sub out a half lb of DME for a lb of 2 -row to help with conversion, that should make a nice little mini mash.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

The difference between steeping grains in an "extract with specialty grains" recipe is that the steeping extracts some color and flavor from the grains (usually Crystal and other dark grains). It does not, however, extract fermentable sugars. When doing a true mash you need to have base grains (2-row, munich, vienna) that have diastatic power to actually convert starches in the grains to fermentable sugar. With mashing you get the flavor extraction AND fermentable sugars. Mashing also requires specific temp control for conversion - typically in the range of 148F - 156F.

All grain brews get all their fermentability (i.e. sugar) from mash conversion. Partial mash (or mini-mash) gives you some sugar from mash conversion and then makes up the rest from adding extract.

 

[shellybaybrewer]

Ok guys thanks for that, so if I've read what you guys are saying is I can tell from the types of grain used whether the recipe is partial mash or simply steeping, also the amount of malt specified will give an indication. RM-MN's advice makes sense I will just steep between 148-158 and let the grains do their thing. If I get extra sugars from the steeping process coming through from steeping a munic malt my OG will be obviously higher will that negatively effect the beer? I dont have a mash tun at this point so steeping is where I'm at, but aspiring to get to partial/ all grain eventually. Thanks again for the help!

 

[RM-MN]

Ok guys thanks for that, so if I've read what you guys are saying is I can tell from the types of grain used whether the recipe is partial mash or simply steeping, also the amount of malt specified will give an indication. RM-MN's advice makes sense I will just steep between 148-158 and let the grains do their thing. If I get extra sugars from the steeping process coming through from steeping a munic malt my OG will be obviously higher will that negatively effect the beer? I dont have a mash tun at this point so steeping is where I'm at, but aspiring to get to partial/ all grain eventually. Thanks again for the help!

Sure it will negatively affect your beer. You'll have to drink beer with more alcohol in it. Of course that has never bothered me much.

Do you have a pot that will hold 5 gallons or more liquid? If so you can do a 2 1/2 gallon all grain batch by doing it BIAB. It only requires a bag like a paint strainer bag. I think mine cost $3.75 for a pair of them about 5 years ago. I'm on the second bag now.

 

[neverfadeaway86]

Do you have a pot that will hold 5 gallons or more liquid? If so you can do a 2 1/2 gallon all grain batch by doing it BIAB. It only requires a bag like a paint strainer bag. I think mine cost $3.75 for a pair of them about 5 years ago. I'm on the second bag now.[/QUOTE]

not the OP but I do partial Mash and just use a Muslin bag and sparge with a strainer over the pot,I have a 28 qt pot and it works very well for partial mash brewing

 

[RM-MN]

Do you have a pot that will hold 5 gallons or more liquid? If so you can do a 2 1/2 gallon all grain batch by doing it BIAB. It only requires a bag like a paint strainer bag. I think mine cost $3.75 for a pair of them about 5 years ago. I'm on the second bag now.

not the OP but I do partial Mash and just use a Muslin bag and sparge with a strainer over the pot,I have a 28 qt pot and it works very well for partial mash brewing[/QUOTE]

You may find that you get better efficiency if you use a nylon of polyester bag as it lets the water circulate better. The muslin bags I used to get would hold the grains tightly.

 

[shellybaybrewer]

Thanks a lot guys, I actually have a 7 gallon pot and a gas burner, I think BIAB will definatly be the go in the future as neverfadeaway86 said. I will do this recipe as a extract with steeping grains just to get the hang of boiling hop additions etc then I'll move to either BIAB or mashing in a mash tun, while on the subject is there an advantage to using a mash tun over BIAB or vice versa? Thanks a bunch guys I appreciate your help!

 

[neverfadeaway86]

[QUOTE You may find that you get better efficiency if you use mash brewing a nylon or polyester bag as it lets the water circulate better. The muslin bags I used to get would hold the grains tightly.[/QUOTE]

I will look into this, I agree the muslin does hold the grains tightly

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks a lot guys, I actually have a 7 gallon pot and a gas burner, I think BIAB will definatly be the go in the future as neverfadeaway86 said. I will do this recipe as a extract with steeping grains just to get the hang of boiling hop additions etc then I'll move to either BIAB or mashing in a mash tun, while on the subject is there an advantage to using a mash tun over BIAB or vice versa? Thanks a bunch guys I appreciate your help!

If that is a turkey fryer pot it probably is 7 1/2 gallons. With that you can easily do a 4 gallon batch and with sparging you can do a 5 gallon batch but not as easily. Watch for the foam to build up just before the wort gets to a boil and use a wire whisk to stir it down or you will experience a wicked boil over. One of the big advantages of BIAB is the ability to work with grains that are milled much finer than would be possible with a conventional tun. Take advantage of that if you can as it gets you better efficiency which means you can use less base malt and still get the proper OG. With less grain in the bag you won't be as close to over-topping the pot when you add the grains. Don't expect to make 5 gallons of barleywine with that, the water plus grains simply won't fit but with some care and sparging you can make an acceptable RIS.

 

[madscientist451]

Thanks a lot guys, I actually have a 7 gallon pot and a gas burner, I think BIAB will definatly be the go in the future . is there an advantage to using a mash tun over BIAB or vice versa?

My experience: With BIAB in a pot I had temperature swings and pulling the bag out always made a mess with spilled wort. I wasn't happy with the way the beer was coming out.
So I got a cheap 5 gallon round cooler at Walmart, added a spigot and
put the bag in that. No false bottom, just the BIAB bag.
No more temperature swings, no stuck mashes, I can do step mashes,
batch sparges or fly sparge. Its definitely more complicated using a mash tun, so it may or may not work for you.
The advantage of BIAB in the kettle is that its simple, you don't have to buy or clean anything extra.
With a 7 gallon pot and a burner, you're good to go for all grain, Just go for it. You can add a mash tun/cooler later if you want to.

 

[shellybaybrewer]

Thanks so much everyone for your contribution! Cleared up all my questions! Such a value forum!!