Really Grape-y IPA - Nelson/Belma

[Gus_13]

So I've brewed with Nelson Sauvin hops and loved it. Haven't done a single hop brew with them....yet. But I was thinking about doing a brew with Belma and Nelson Sauvin hops to get a really grape-y type brew. Has anyone ever done this? If so, what did you think. If not, will this work? Or will Nelson over power Belma too much to even notice it's there? I have a pound of Belma an it really gives off a strawberry, red grape-ish aroma to me. I have a El Dorado/Belma pale ale planned but I'm constantly tinkering in my free time.

 

[JakeSparrow]

I haven't had experience with either one, but I've heard NS is very assertive while Belma is very low key. One would assume you would need like a 2:1 ratio or maybe even 2.5:1. But it sounds like an interesting combo if both come through in the taste/aroma.

 

[foltster]

I get a lot of "Grape" flavor from S-05 fermented cold (around 62F).

 

[Banjorium]

I don't have much to add, other than that I agree NS will be overpowering if not balanced with the Belma. This is a really interesting idea you have, and if you come up with a recipe please share it. I'd love to try something like that.

 

[BeerGrylls]

Yes please post. I've been listening to ideas for Belma, since I'm sitting on a bunch. The southern hemisphere had their harvest not long ago, so NS should be relatively fresh this time of year. (But the belma, maybe not so much?)

 

[Gus_13]

Working on the recipe now. I'll post something I come up with. It will be a basic grain bill to try to showcase the hops. 2 Row, some Crystal and Cara-Pils for head retention. I thought about going all Golden Promise with it but I'm not sure about the sweetness playing with these hops.

I'll definitely take into count the US-05 fermented low around 62 to add in there as well.

 

[Ryfi]

I realize this isn't much help at the moment but if you can get your hands on some calypso hops they tend to have a grape aroma

 

[Gus_13]

Here's what I have so far. Something simple in the grains with a pretty much 2:1 Belma to Nelson ratio for most hop additions. I may need to back off of the Nelson in the dry hops to a 2:1 ratio as well.


Recipe: The Grape Ape IPA
Brewer: Gus
Asst Brewer:
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 8.97 gal
Post Boil Volume: 7.28 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.076 SG
Estimated Color: 7.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 107.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 83.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
14 lbs Pale Ale Malt 2-Row (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 1 82.4 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 5.9 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.9 %
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 90. Hop 4 37.4 IBUs
1 lbs Corn Sugar (Dextrose) [Boil for 90 min]( Sugar 5 5.9 %
2.00 oz Belma [9.80 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 24.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 14.9 IBUs
2.00 oz Belma [9.80 %] - Boil 2.0 min Hop 8 4.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 2.0 min Hop 9 2.5 IBUs
2.00 oz Belma [9.80 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 30.0 m Hop 10 18.8 IBUs
0.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpoo Hop 11 5.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 12 -
2.00 oz Belma [9.80 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Da Hop 14 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 17 lbs
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 23.20 qt of water at 161.3 F 148.0 F 75 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun , 5.90gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
------



Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Gus_13]

I realize this isn't much help at the moment but if you can get your hands on some calypso hops they tend to have a grape aroma

I looked at this one at first too. I think Belma is listed as a replacement hop for this one so I'm along those lines now. But nothing to say I can't have a brew with 3 hops if these don't work out as planned!

 

[bobbrews]

90 Minute Boil

11 lbs 2-Row
3 lbs White Wheat Malt
1 lb Carapils
1 lb Crystal 20L
Grape Concentrate + Grape Must combination, Primary, as needed
Grape Flavoring Drops, Secondary, as needed

1.50 oz Horizon - Boil 60 min
1.00 oz Horizon - Boil 30 min
1.50 oz Belma - Boil 10 min
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin - Boil 5 min
2.00 oz Belma - Whirlpool 45 min
1.50 oz Nelson Sauvin - Whirlpool 45 min
1.0 pkg Safale US-05
1.50 oz Belma - Dryhop Primary, 6 Days
1.50 oz Nelson Sauvin - Dryhop Primary, 6 Days
1.50 oz Belma - Dryhop Secondary, 6 Days
1.00 oz. Nelson Sauvin - Dryhop Secondary, 6 Days

Some El Dorado can replace some of the Belma and Nelson later on... It has a juicy, watermelon-berry flavor which would work well here.

 

[Smellyglove]

I get a lot of "Grape" flavor from S-05 fermented cold (around 62F).

Do you perhaps mean peach?

I've fermented s-05 as low as 53-54, and that definitely gives a peach-flavour/aroma. Maybe its a gradual thing down to lower limit-temp?

 

[Gus_13]

90 Minute Boil

11 lbs 2-Row
3 lbs White Wheat Malt
1 lb Carapils
1 lb Crystal 20L
Grape Concentrate + Grape Must combination, Primary, as needed
Grape Flavoring Drops, Secondary, as needed

1.50 oz Horizon - Boil 60 min
1.00 oz Horizon - Boil 30 min
1.50 oz Belma - Boil 10 min
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin - Boil 5 min
2.00 oz Belma - Whirlpool 45 min
1.50 oz Nelson Sauvin - Whirlpool 45 min
1.0 pkg Safale US-05
1.50 oz Belma - Dryhop Primary, 6 Days
1.50 oz Nelson Sauvin - Dryhop Primary, 6 Days
1.50 oz Belma - Dryhop Secondary, 6 Days
1.00 oz. Nelson Sauvin - Dryhop Secondary, 6 Days

Some El Dorado can replace some of the Belma and Nelson later on... It has a juicy, watermelon-berry flavor which would work well here.

I like this. I'm going to hold off on the artificial flavoring for the first brew probably. Just to see what the hops are capable of on their own.

 

[masonsjax]

IME Belma is useless as a dry hop addition. Better make it 10:1 if you want any aroma from it.

 

[bobbrews]

IME Belma is useless as a dry hop addition

Actually, this is kind of true. It's one of my least favorite hops. I found myself bittering with what I had left after the first two IPAs I brewed with it left me disappointed.

OP, it really sounds like you want something like Dogfish Head Sixty-One, but with more alcohol and more hops. FYI, they use Syrah grape must in the primary for that beer.

 

[Gus_13]

Actually, this is kind of true. It's one of my least favorite hops. I found myself bittering with what I had left after the first two IPAs I brewed with it left me disappointed.



OP, it really sounds like you want something like Dogfish Head Sixty-One, but with more alcohol and more hops. FYI, they use Syrah grape must in the primary for that beer.

Thanks guys! I'm honestly not wanting anything like 61 as it was not a favorite. I'm looking for a grape almost candy like flavor and aroma. As I've been reading a Nelson/El Dorado may be the way to go. I want to keep the beer hop driven but not the citrus type double IPAs I've done lately. More fruity and melon maybe grape like. I have an idea in my head and in trying to make it come out lol.


Santé!

Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[bobbrews]

I'm looking for a grape almost candy like flavor and aroma. As I've been reading a Nelson/El Dorado may be the way to go.

Then yep, that would be a great combo. Focus on late additions and dryhops and go heavier on the El Dorado. Other really fruity hops include Citra and Amarillo when mixed together.

Use a fruity ale yeast like Wyeast 1968 and ferment warmer than usual.

 

[foltster]

I have on more than one occasion felt like i could taste "grape" (purple) jolly rancher from my S-05 fermented cold (60-62). Might just be my taste buds.

 

[masonsjax]

I have gotten strong grape flavors from S-04, especially older generations. So grape-like in fact that the smell and taste reminded me of wine.