reallllly on the fence !!!!

[DSorenson]

Well gents, I believe we have made a solid case for temperature control of some form. Charliehorse is really annoyed by encouraging someone to construct/buy a proper fermentation chamber, but that's not really our concern.

I would be really remiss, however, if I didn't mention that finding a way to control fermentation temperature was the single best investment I made in the hobby. I would rather have that then a 10 gallon boil kettle and propane burner.

Just as a little side note: I have friends who brew together and make otherwise great beers that very consistently get creamed with high and fluctuating temps and the beer suffers. They are building a chamber tomorrow! My point being that eventually everyone (except maybe Charliehorse) comes around to it.

 

[charliehorse]

It's not that temperature control isn't a valid step in brewing, it's just exactly that, a step. It gets tiresome to see somebody ask a legitimate question about, say, which grain mill to buy and within 10 posts the temperature control Nazis come swooping in like a pterodactyl, hijacking the thread to preach that if a brewer doesn't control his temperatures, his beer will taste like mud, but if you do use temperature control, unicorn riding gnomes arrive on your brew to handle the clean up and your wife turns into some sort of porn star (or Disney Princess, depending on the post).

In the case of this thread, the OP was questioning if he should move to all grain or start kegging first. By post number 9, the Nazis started invading Poland. If somebody asks a "How can I make my beer better?" question, point the toward LOOKING at fermentation temps. If the person lives in Alaska, that's probably not needed. Also, if they ask about where the best place to buy bulk grain online, it's probably not needed there. If somebody asks about buying a larger brewing kettle, you probably don't need to talk about temperatures. Likewise with building a msh tun or converting a sanke keg.

The point it, stay on topic. Admittedly, there are a lot of things that can improve beer and temperature control is only one of them. Pitching enough yeast makes a big difference too, but in the "Beginners Beer Brewing Forum", I'm not going to advocate complicating the process for somebody who just bought his first recipe kit or has 2 or 3 batches under his belt or is brewing his first all grain batch this weekend.

I'm sure that the 20-something new brewer doesn't have the funds to slap down his credit card and buy $10,000 in brewing hardware to start out a hobby that he knows nothing about. He might have the money to drop $100 on an equipment kit and $40 for a recipe kit and gradually move up from there.

 

[NathPowe]

It's not that temperature control isn't a valid step in brewing, it's just exactly that, a step. It gets tiresome to see somebody ask a legitimate question about, say, which grain mill to buy and within 10 posts the temperature control Nazis come swooping in like a pterodactyl, hijacking the thread to preach that if a brewer doesn't control his temperatures, his beer will taste like mud, but if you do use temperature control, unicorn riding gnomes arrive on your brew to handle the clean up and your wife turns into some sort of porn star (or Disney Princess, depending on the post).

In the case of this thread, the OP was questioning if he should move to all grain or start kegging first. By post number 9, the Nazis started invading Poland. If somebody asks a "How can I make my beer better?" question, point the toward LOOKING at fermentation temps. If the person lives in Alaska, that's probably not needed. Also, if they ask about where the best place to buy bulk grain online, it's probably not needed there. If somebody asks about buying a larger brewing kettle, you probably don't need to talk about temperatures. Likewise with building a msh tun or converting a sanke keg.

The point it, stay on topic. Admittedly, there are a lot of things that can improve beer and temperature control is only one of them. Pitching enough yeast makes a big difference too, but in the "Beginners Beer Brewing Forum", I'm not going to advocate complicating the process for somebody who just bought his first recipe kit or has 2 or 3 batches under his belt or is brewing his first all grain batch this weekend.

I'm sure that the 20-something new brewer doesn't have the funds to slap down his credit card and buy $10,000 in brewing hardware to start out a hobby that he knows nothing about. He might have the money to drop $100 on an equipment kit and $40 for a recipe kit and gradually move up from there.

Fair enough man. I get the idea of wanting to stay on-topic. But I also think that most of the time when people mention temp control, they're doing so in an effort to help someone brew beer that tastes better as opposed to getting all 'Nazi' on them. To me, that seems like a pretty friendly thing to do. Off-topic? Quite possibly. An offense worthy of being called a ********? Not likely.

Cheers and enjoy the brew.

 

[charliehorse]

******** = bringing the same topic up on every single thread on the forum.

 

[firerat]

The point it, stay on topic.

Fair enough.

You should probably follow your own advice BTW. You have yet to offer anything of any use in this thread. (sadly I don't think I did either)

I don't recall the OP asking what your opinion (or mine for that matter) is regarding the patterns of advice given on this forum. Temperature control may be repetitive advice but at least it is useful. Out of place, perhaps, but useful.

I won't participate in derailing this thread anymore, and contrary to my signature, I will apologize to the OP for my part in flipping the train off it's tracks.

 

[boydster]

******** = bringing the same topic up on every single thread on the forum.

The OP started a thread very recently asking about ways to control temps. If he is looking for a way to make his beer better, and has a few bucks to spend (as this thread would seem to indicate), then controlling temps will do worlds more good than going AG or kegging, su it seems like helpful advice as far as I can tell. RDWHAHB.

I choose to redefine your term. ******** = Well intentioned and helpful bunch of fellas that unintentionally irritate one thin-skinned member on an internet forum while trying to help another member of said forum.

 

[charliehorse]

******** = Well intentioned and helpful bunch of fellas that unintentionally irritate one thin-skinned member on an internet forum while trying to help another member of said forum.

Naw... mine's more accurate.

 

[DSorenson]

Sorry OP, I hope you got the main ideas from this thread before it dissolved into quarreling.

The OP was asking for opinions between two very specific options. If (as Charliehorse says) any other suggestion is off topic, then I rescind my previous posts.

If the OP is set on one or the other, get the kegging system. If bottling beer is running the risk of ruining your love of the hobby, keg it!

 

[william_shakes_beer]

I vote for the 15 gallon brew pot, so you can do 10 gallon batches. I like to be able to occasionally double up on a batch to refill a sagging pipeline. Of course I'm one of those rare birds that doesn't loath bottling. Its kinda like zen to me. Pull the handle, fill a bottle, cap it, box it, repeat. I've formulated more than one new recipie while capping a case. When I stepped up from my 7.5 gallon turkey fryer I looked at the 10 gllon and thought "that's not a lot bigger than what I'm using now"

 

[ram5ey]

After reading through all this I think you should now be in the market for 1bbl nano brewery.

 

[henchman24]

I'd go all-grain first if I had to do it over again (still only did 2 full extract batches). There is just more control over what you are doing and it doesn't have to be expensive. BIAB and a single converted cooler batch sparge system are both cheap and easy ways to get into all grain. All grain just takes a little bit more understanding of water chemistry to produce good beers, but that is nothing some reading and sending your water out for a test won't cover.

Though the people saying controlling fermentation temperature first are right... that is the single easiest way to improve your beer. It doesn't have to be an elaborate fermentation chamber to start out with... just a simple rope bucket with some water (and ice or aquarium heater if needed) can do a decent job at controlling temperatures. It isn't as good as a closed chamber, but it still works.