Have you tried doing a protein rest before mashing?
Raw Ale / No Boil
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It certainly does chop proteins into pieces. You just have to hit the right temperature for the right amount of time before hitting the final mashing temperature.
PocketWater
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Great article on raw ale in BYO this month.
I read that text and also made three batch raw ale beer. I was convinced that DMS, pasteurization, bitterness and aroma of hops are not a problem. The problem are the only proteins in terms of clarity (I did not use any fining so it is possible that this is not a problem) and slightly different taste. I realized that using simple sugar helps to improve the taste (it dryness beer and proteins are less noticeable), and I think some form of protein rest will help reduce proteins effect.
But, beer is very good and this little difference is not bad.
Two batch is already drinked.
But, beer is very good and this little difference is not bad.
Two batch is already drinked.
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I recycle a fairly old post, but I would add that I only use hot water for sanitation and I did not have an infection. In addition, I made several batch of canned beer kit and added cold top water directly from the tap water supply and I did not have an infection.
I think it was a problem with that your batch that you used cold water to sparge, as yourself concluded. Additionally, I think it's really good practice to heat the full wort volume at 75 ° C in the end. I pour a hot wort into the fermenter, close it well and let it cool.
You are a more experienced homebrewer than me and it's not mine to teach you, but I want to write how I do it and not have problems with the infection. Yeast health is also so important that I do not want to wash yeast but always use a dry yeast bag. His price was too low for torture with yeast washing and possible mutations and infections.
I bottled my last batch of Ordinary Bitter (No Boil/No Chill).
I put gelatin two days ago. I think the effect is seen on 3/4 volumes. After that, it began to pull away remains, but I think it will still be clearer. We'll see it after two to three weeks.
It is good for drink and has a pleasant bitterness right now. There are no unpleasant odors or smells. US-05 proved to be good at higher fermentation temperatures.
Recipe for 24L is very simple:
3kg Pale Ale Belgium Malt
100g Crystal 120L Malt
600g table sugar
18g Magnum hop pellets stepped in 2L water 35min and poured 20min before end of mash
Yeast is US-05 fermented 21-26'C.
Lost 3L in trub. OG=1.044 / FG=1.008 (ABV=4.8% with priming sugar).
I put gelatin two days ago. I think the effect is seen on 3/4 volumes. After that, it began to pull away remains, but I think it will still be clearer. We'll see it after two to three weeks.
It is good for drink and has a pleasant bitterness right now. There are no unpleasant odors or smells. US-05 proved to be good at higher fermentation temperatures.
Recipe for 24L is very simple:
3kg Pale Ale Belgium Malt
100g Crystal 120L Malt
600g table sugar
18g Magnum hop pellets stepped in 2L water 35min and poured 20min before end of mash
Yeast is US-05 fermented 21-26'C.
Lost 3L in trub. OG=1.044 / FG=1.008 (ABV=4.8% with priming sugar).
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
Obviously you're the head brewer and brew to your taste, but from a British perspective that's way too strong for an Ordinary Bitter - in fact it's stronger than 98% of the cask beers in British pubs. Call it "beer" but not Ordinary Bitter, as that implies something <4%.
I'd use a bit less the sugar, and use a British yeast rather than US-05, at <4% you don't want to dry it out too much.
You're right. This is not the British Ordinary Beer. I called him so because it was simple and usually without some special features. Maybe I can call him a bit less bitterness American Pale Ale.
troglodytes
Well-Known Member
Quick update on the no boil mixed fermentation I started about 3 months ago.
A gravity reading today and taste test show that is down to 1.006 and somewhere between tart and sour, with a great blend of tartness and funk. The best part about it is that there is still more body to it than any other beer I've had at that gravity. Can't say for sure whether its the microbe mix or the no boil providing more unfermentables, but its a very pleasant mouthfeel and sweetness I did not expect after taking that gravity reading. Now if it just drops 2 more points I think it will be perfect. I think I've found my new process for brewing quick sours.
A gravity reading today and taste test show that is down to 1.006 and somewhere between tart and sour, with a great blend of tartness and funk. The best part about it is that there is still more body to it than any other beer I've had at that gravity. Can't say for sure whether its the microbe mix or the no boil providing more unfermentables, but its a very pleasant mouthfeel and sweetness I did not expect after taking that gravity reading. Now if it just drops 2 more points I think it will be perfect. I think I've found my new process for brewing quick sours.
If you make Mash Out you can target you final gravity (I use BrewMate and it is very accurate) without sour taste.
It is full of body because is full of proteins that is not evaporated without boiling.
My previsions No Boil/No Chill batch is week in fridge and it taste great.
troglodytes
Well-Known Member
I was figuring that about the proteins, which is why I did this in the first place. I wanted there to be a lot for the bacteria and brett to eat after the wy3711 was finished to bump down my pH as fast as possible. It seems to have worked for sure. When I purposefully want a sour beer, I'm going to keep on with this method based on these results.
That sounds actually quite nice. I also think that the body is so nice because of the proteins still in solution. I am looking forward to seeing how this beer ages!
I brew new batch of red beer, and according to this http://brulosophy.com/2016/04/18/fe...ager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/ try W-34/70 (dry lager yeast) on 27'C (current temperature on my apartment).
Do any try this yeast on this high fermentation temperature?
Do any try this yeast on this high fermentation temperature?
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/warm-fermented-lager-thread.592169/page-11#post-8293199
Long story short, yes, might throw some clove but in general it works.
My personal warm fermented lager champ is mangrove Jack California lager. Flocks waaaaaaaay better than 3470 and is really really clean at room temperature.
I read this post, and also https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/the-lazy-german-raw-warm-fermented-pilsener.638088/ and I know that you have experience with that so I asked.
It is currently the third day and the airlock is still very active, and the smell is not very pleasant. The previous batch worked with US-05 at about 23'C and was not so hot, nor was the smell so intense.
As I like to experiment I wanted to make a lager, but at high temperature because I do not have a lagering chamber.
This beer should be similar to your No Boil / No Chill pilsner fermented at high temperature.
I've tried my first bottle of mine Ordinary Bitter (Ale) after half of day in fridge.
First, gelatin did a good job without cold crash. Beer is very clear. But, I put twice as little priming in sugar bottles, fearing for overcarbonization, which was a problem so far. Beer have poor foam. And, is not enough bitter. Like commercial lagers.
It is a fairly refreshing and pure taste with very weak fruity scent.
I am very pleased with the effect of gelatin on clarity and pure taste. However, it also definitely affects foam reduction in natural carbonization in bottles. In the future, it should increase the priming sugar and the hops for twice.
I try yet another warm, not from fridge. It have enough foam and color is different (chill haze), but is very good.
No Boil / No Chill is very good method!
First, gelatin did a good job without cold crash. Beer is very clear. But, I put twice as little priming in sugar bottles, fearing for overcarbonization, which was a problem so far. Beer have poor foam. And, is not enough bitter. Like commercial lagers.
It is a fairly refreshing and pure taste with very weak fruity scent.
I am very pleased with the effect of gelatin on clarity and pure taste. However, it also definitely affects foam reduction in natural carbonization in bottles. In the future, it should increase the priming sugar and the hops for twice.
I try yet another warm, not from fridge. It have enough foam and color is different (chill haze), but is very good.
No Boil / No Chill is very good method!
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applescrap
Be the ball!
I don't want to go too much more off topic, but it is this comment and the research following that has me overwhelmingly interested in Bitters. A flavorful low alcohol beer sounds wonderful. I don't know why Bud Light became so popular. Seems like a lightly hopped quality Cask ale would fit the bill and would be lower in calories, wouldn't it. I don't know why I don't think I've drink many examples of this beer. Seems like a perfect thing to keep around. Anyways thanks for pointing this out.
Back on topic I was discussing no boil with someone and it occurred to me that I think one of the biggest reasons to make this beer is for its flavor not just for the speed. I made it because I was interested in making a Thanksgiving beer and had no time. But I think the real joy in making this is for its flavor
applescrap
Be the ball!
That is awesome. Where there is a will, theres a way. And with extract you could essentially just mix it. Extract is boiled to a powder so it is ready. And I'm tempted to brew a lot of beer this way just to get a massive pipeline going, every week in week out Brewing it's just easier for my setup right now.
Edit. Rereading your work ninoid i am impressed. Your work is adding significantly to this discussion for me and your reasons for this method are cool, strong, and leading the way for others. I am thinking rather than try and work around the protein issue, embrace it. I can't help but think Saison is a good candidate for this kind of beer. It's no coincidence that I think this style of beer making is used for Saison in norway. Although protein would add plenty of life to a lager. New England IPA, bitters, and red ale, i enjoy what you brew. Cant wait to see more of your findings with this beer style, especially as related to stability and the proteins. I really want to save some time in my brews.
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In current lager, that ferment, I try Biersol (fining like Whirfloc). I hope he can help with excessive protein problems. The gelatine (on warm temperature) definitely helps to clear yeast and stabilizes the beer, but it reduces the amount of foam and bitterness, so I try to correct whit hop extract and more sugar in priming.
My goal is to make a good beer for friends and yourself with minimal equipment and as simple and fast as possible. But I think they No Boil / no Chill will soon be able to compete in some homebrew competition.
My goal is to make a good beer for friends and yourself with minimal equipment and as simple and fast as possible. But I think they No Boil / no Chill will soon be able to compete in some homebrew competition.
I read this:
http://brulosophy.com/2018/02/05/kettle-hop-vs-hop-stand-exbeeriment-results/
In this experiment hop stand with all hops add same amount of IBU (and almost the same flavor and aroma) as boiling schedule.
Next is No Chill hop addition chart. According to this chart, hop added in natural chilling container produce same bitterness as 20 minute of boiling and fast chill. This is for wort with 100'C. If I use mash out in Raw/No Boil Ale (heat wort up to 77'C) I have 75% of utilization on 100'C.
So if I hit a hop right after mash out I can count on getting bitterness as if I boiling it for 15 minutes.
I think that is useful for hoping methods for No Boil beer.
http://brulosophy.com/2018/02/05/kettle-hop-vs-hop-stand-exbeeriment-results/
In this experiment hop stand with all hops add same amount of IBU (and almost the same flavor and aroma) as boiling schedule.
Next is No Chill hop addition chart. According to this chart, hop added in natural chilling container produce same bitterness as 20 minute of boiling and fast chill. This is for wort with 100'C. If I use mash out in Raw/No Boil Ale (heat wort up to 77'C) I have 75% of utilization on 100'C.
So if I hit a hop right after mash out I can count on getting bitterness as if I boiling it for 15 minutes.
I think that is useful for hoping methods for No Boil beer.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
??? As far as bittering goes, what matters is the time spent over 80C. If you're only going up to 77C then you won't isomerise and alpha acids, which is the main contributor to bitterness. You will get some bitterness from other chemicals in the hops, but not much.
Although it's commonly said that no-chill effectively adds 20 minutes to the hop timings it's not always true - my estimate for a recent beer I had was that no-chill had added ~8 minutes to the timings, not 20.
@applescrap those Norwegian beers aren't saisons - different yeast, different process, but still within the wider tradition of European farmhouse brewing. This article from Lars Garshol gives a good overview and is worth a read by anyone interested in raw beers : https://byo.com/article/raw-ale/
I can confirm what you are saying regarding the bittering impact of no chill flame out hops. I did some small scale experiments with flame out only, to see how much would be needed to reach the desired bitterness. When assuming that 20 minutes boiling would equal this no chill flame out addition, I ended up with less bitterness than calculated. I wanted to shoot for about 25 ibus but the result was more in the range of 15 ibus or even a bit lower.
I would use 12 min boiling time as the calculator input when trying to calculate no chill flame out additions, based on my own experience. It's more based on personal experiences than being scientifically proven, so it might change in the future. For now it looks like it would work.
applescrap
Be the ball!
I have posted about no chill bittering quite a bit. I remain certain 20 minutes etc is not the whole story. Infact there are some charts that say one should add first wort hops to offset no chill. Think about that, fwh? I am not talking no boil now, but no chill. With no boil I think a separate tea should be made and there wont be too much isomerization in the cooler wort as mentioned. But for a boiled beer that is no chilled. Depending on ambient temps etc, the beer will remain above 177 lets say, for well over an hour. However long the beer remains over 177 as it chills should be used as the time in a hop calculator. Playing with said calculator reveals a point, a time, where no more bitterness can be extracted. It also shows the difference between one hour and two hours. I think this is how long no chill hops should be added.
I brew No Boil IPA today and use this Cube First Wort Hoping No Chill method. After removing BIAB bag with grains, heat wort up to 77'C, pitch all hops in fermenter and pour hot wort then seal fermenter for No Chill.
In one previous batch (No Boil and No Chill) I use mash hoping only and got pretty bitter beer. With this experience and what I have read, I think that this method (Cube FWH) should get much more bitterness.
Tomorrow I'll taste it when I'm a yeast pitch.
Edited: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...pa-hop-schedule-critique.266755/#post-3229223
Same hopping method.
In one previous batch (No Boil and No Chill) I use mash hoping only and got pretty bitter beer. With this experience and what I have read, I think that this method (Cube FWH) should get much more bitterness.
Tomorrow I'll taste it when I'm a yeast pitch.
Edited: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...pa-hop-schedule-critique.266755/#post-3229223
Same hopping method.
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applescrap
Be the ball!
That makes good sense. When I wrote that post above I had forgotten about the brulosophy experiments and some known facts of today's beer production. It's my understanding that a lot of the beers that I like to drink don't even have hops in the boil anymore. It's all whirlpool and dryhop if I'm correct. In that brulosophy xbmt or one like it didn't they send the results into the lab and find that ibus were created in the whirlpool. Can't remember what temperature the ibus were created at. Anyways for an IPA sure that makes sense to me, put enough Hops in 170 degree water and let it steep until it cools. Biterness aside sounds like a great way to make an ipa. I find this all so interesting
I pitch yeast and taste wort. It feels very mild bitterness.
Next trial for two weeks.
Update: Since summer has already started in me, US-05 fermented to 29 ° C. Strong fermentation did not last for two days. But, good foam and no unpleasant smells.
Next trial for two weeks.
Update: Since summer has already started in me, US-05 fermented to 29 ° C. Strong fermentation did not last for two days. But, good foam and no unpleasant smells.
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I think that in the following batch I try this method of hoping:
http://brulosophy.com/2018/02/05/kettle-hop-vs-hop-stand-exbeeriment-results/
The only problem is that it would have to heat the wort to 100'C so I do not know if it would trigger the creation of a DMS that, as it would not boiling, would not evaporate?
http://brulosophy.com/2018/02/05/kettle-hop-vs-hop-stand-exbeeriment-results/
The only problem is that it would have to heat the wort to 100'C so I do not know if it would trigger the creation of a DMS that, as it would not boiling, would not evaporate?
My Dark Lager (I expected it to be red, but rosted barley was twice as dark as expected), No Boil / No Chill fermented with lager yeast W-34/70 at twice the recommended temperature (26'C), with gelatin fining (on warm) got pretty good. I do not think it would be better if it was boiling.
I used hop tea in 2L water with 20g Magnum which was added to the grain at the end of mash and, combined with a mild roasty character, gives a pleasant and pure bitterness.
I used hop tea in 2L water with 20g Magnum which was added to the grain at the end of mash and, combined with a mild roasty character, gives a pleasant and pure bitterness.
Bottling day for my No Boil / No Chill IPA with Cube FWH of 80g Magnum and US-05 that ferment above at 28'C and above. This is very tasting, as is young.
But (always this BUT), problem with hop remains and plugging bottle filer.
I think this method of adding hop has already proven to be successful, but I have to figure out how to remove hop remains.
Do hop remains can increase FG?
But (always this BUT), problem with hop remains and plugging bottle filer.
I think this method of adding hop has already proven to be successful, but I have to figure out how to remove hop remains.
Do hop remains can increase FG?
applescrap
Be the ball!
^^ you can put the Hops in the bag next time or you can also wrap the racking cane with a bag which is what I usually do. Research strongly suggests that there is no difference between putting the Hops in a bag or just throwing them in.
Do bag material influence beer two weeks in fermenter? Do bag drop to bottom of fermenter?
applescrap
Be the ball!
I dont think so, i have never done it but its my understanding it works well
Hi, doing a 5 gal batch today, it 'was' going to be a pale ale but I grabbed a bag of about 8.5oz Simcoe and just thought stuff it, so dumped it all in at the start of the mash, let's see how we go lol I do love hoppy beers so I'm sure it will be good...
So I added a whirfloc just before I upped the temp to mash out (mash 66c mash out 75c for ten minutes). The wort is very clear, despite my crush being a bit too fine today. I added hops at the start of the mash and was really expecting it to be less clear. I also decided to no chill today just for ease of brewing. I have a counter flow chiller but not using it was super easy. Will let you guys know how this one goes 
Drink among the last bottle No Boil beer standing for just over a month in the fridge. It looks a bit cleaner, tastes the same as before, but got some bad smell.
Making few batches of No Boil Beer I have found that this is the greatest disadvantage of this method. It's not stable and it's fast changing to worse.
As far as I can tell, it's best to drink it within 20 days. The flavor and the taste change afterwards.
Making few batches of No Boil Beer I have found that this is the greatest disadvantage of this method. It's not stable and it's fast changing to worse.
As far as I can tell, it's best to drink it within 20 days. The flavor and the taste change afterwards.
