Raw Ale / No Boil

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ghohn said:
What temp is everyone doing their pasteurization rests at? I do 75c but haven't been brave enough to go any lower.




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I shoot for 165F (74C), I would not go much below that..maybe as much as 2 deg C. I feel that 165 is pretty ideal for a hop stand, while staying well below DMS formation temp. It's above the temp used in pasteurization of milk. I would not call it a "rest", as I do not attempt to maintain that temp, I allow it to slow cool from that point.


H.W.
 
This one just popped up on my twitter (if you're really into old farmhouse style brewing, or very traditional raw ale style brewing, look up Lars Garshol. He writes in English.). Thought it was interesting and maybe others would wanna see what the traditional farmhouse way of brewing looked like in Norway. These guys specifically brew raw ale (in a place called Hornindal), but not all the farmhouse brewers do that, but they all pretty much brew with a copper pot, the juniper branches, and some form of kveik (the yeast strains that have just been passed down from generation to generation on these farms).

[ame]https://vimeo.com/156659003/a5b9e9f5ac[/ame]
 
Yea, 165F is the magic temp for bacteria. Hence why it is the target cooking temperature for poultry
 
squaremile said:
Wow I love that video! Thanks for sharing! I wonder how that tastes?
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I tried it at a Norwegian Best of Show competition (it's basically the second biggest homebrewer's competition in Norway, but not officially the year's champion in homebrewing. The beers aren't actually graded by judges, it's voted on by the public). It was very fresh at that time. It was incredibly unclear. It honestly had a mouthfeel that was a bit grainy, and it had a bit of residual sweetness to it that I didn't really like. My wife thoroughly enjoyed it, and used one of her three votes on it.
 
Ok. So I bottled my raw ale today and....it doesn't taste that good. No infection for sure and pretty good clarity, but it has a very garlicky/ onion flavor. Now, I used a heavy amount of Summit hops, which can give a garlicky flavor, but I've never had them do this before and I've used them a few times in the past and got great grapefruit results.

So, can anybody chime in here on this flavor? Is this a product of the no boil or is this a product of Summit hops?

EDIT: I did some research online and it appears that Summit is the culprit here. Oskar Blues Gubna has been said to have this flavor, so I guess I'll need to locate one and compare.
 
That is def the Summit hops. Gubna was the most garlicy beer I've ever had. I like that flavor in small doses though.
 
squaremile said:
That is def the Summit hops. Gubna was the most garlicy beer I've ever had. I like that flavor in small doses though.
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Ok, thanks. I'm glad my first attempt at no boil went well. I shall do this more often. Without the Summit, of course.
 
I posted this over on the MTF page, but thought I'd post it as well here, since this is such a good thread. Here is my first probiotic soured, no-boil beer - Gose before Hoes.

8385_10208800334984469_6031308261981109121_n.jpg

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Grain bill is 50/50 2-row/wheat with 1/2 lb. of acidulated added for a 6 gallon batch.

Mashed and sparged as usual, collected runnings to kettle and heated to 180F.

Added whirlfloc, 28g ground coriander, and 21g sea salt at flame out, and then chilled down to 95F.

Drained to fermenter and pitched 6 Swanson's L Plantarum capsules and allowed it to sour for 48 hours. During that time it dropped from 95F to 78F and went from a pH of 5.44 to 3.25.

Then I dropped the temp to 58F and pitched a 2L starter of WLP029 Kölsch yeast. Fermented at 58 for 5 days, then ramped to 68 for 2 more days. OG was 1.049 and it finished at 1.010.

Dropped the temp to 65F and dry-hoped with 60g each of Nelson and Kohatu along with 28g each of lime and orange zest.

Cold crashed for a couple of days and then kegged it with 4 oz each of Lime and Orange juice.

Nice and tart, the citrus really shines though, and there's just enough salt to make you immediately come back for another sip.
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Very excited to have these techniques in my wheelhouse now, and I'm really looking forward to my next attempt in a few weeks - a golden sour co-pitched with L. Plantarum and Conan yeast, dry-hopped with Mosaic and Citra.
 
I highly doubt I'd like a Gose, but that name is fantastic!

I'm curious enough to want to try a no boil beer soon. I have some experiments in 1 gallon batches I'd like to do and this would be a good way to combine some things and save time.

I'm also curious if anyone has tried Gelatin to fine the beer after fermentation? I can't see where it would hurt and it might speed up the clarifying process.
 
Homercidal said:
I highly doubt I'd like a Gose, but that name is fantastic!

I'm also curious if anyone has tried Gelatin to fine the beer after fermentation? I can't see where it would hurt and it might speed up the clarifying process.
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Thanks! I think you have to have a mis-pronounced pun-inspired name if you brew a Gose. That's the rule.

Regarding gelatin, I use it on all my beers, this one included, and it definitely has an impact. This one was pretty cloudy before the cold crash/gelatin phase.
 
drgonzo2k2 said:
Thanks! I think you have to have a mis-pronounced pun-inspired name if you brew a Gose. That's the rule.

Regarding gelatin, I use it on all my beers, this one included, and it definitely has an impact. This one was pretty cloudy before the cold crash/gelatin phase.
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Heh...I've been calling mine Gose the Destructor.

That looks awesome. Got me itching to brew a fresh batch.
 
burninator said:
Heh...I've been calling mine Gose the Destructor.

That looks awesome. Got me itching to brew a fresh batch.
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Hah, that's a great name too!

I really recommend giving the no-boil, fermenter-soured technique a try. The whole thing was a lot of fun, going against pretty much all practical homebrewing advice, and in the end resulted in a darn fine beer!
 
drgonzo2k2 said:
Hah, that's a great name too!

I really recommend giving the no-boil, fermenter-soured technique a try. The whole thing was a lot of fun, going against pretty much all practical homebrewing advice, and in the end resulted in a darn fine beer!
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That's my approach. Bring it up to first bubble and shut off the heat. Throw in salt and coriander to steep.

I pitch a wild sour culture for the first few days, then assess whether I need additional yeast or not.
 
burninator said:
That's my approach. Bring it up to first bubble and shut off the heat. Throw in salt and coriander to steep.

I pitch a wild sour culture for the first few days, then assess whether I need additional yeast or not.
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Interesting. So you're pitching "everything" in one shot? Do you try to hold temp at any level or just let it go to ambient?

Are you using a commercial culture or something you've created yourself from bottle dregs?
 
drgonzo2k2 said:
Interesting. So you're pitching "everything" in one shot? Do you try to hold temp at any level or just let it go to ambient?

Are you using a commercial culture or something you've created yourself from bottle dregs?
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I'm getting a culture from, let's say, unconventional sources (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=517948). Sometimes that culture may require me to augment after a few days with some commercial yeast. I monitor the fermentation and make a judgement. It's all in together, though, at ambient temp.
 
I brewed my first Raw Ale today and thought I'd post it here just in case somebody actually cares!
I only made a 4.5 litre batch as it's an experiment and that's what my demijohn holds. The grain bill was decided because I had malt to use up.

Whitehorn's Red Raw Ale
The recipe:
600g Pilsner Malt
100g Munich Malt
20g Roasted Barley
20g Phoenix Hops
10g Fuggles Hops
Nottingham Yeast

5.5 litres of Asda Eden Falls Water
1.4g Epsom Salt
1.4g Calcium Chloride
15g Acid Malt

I put the acid malt in at 30c with the salts. Then added the hops at 50c. I did this so that the hops didn't affect beersmith's strike water prediction.

I then added everything else and kept to 67c for 20 minutes, then let it stand, covered, for a further 30 minutes. After that, I heated to 75c.

(I brew in an open muslin cloth) Once it hit 75c, I closed, then pulled out the muslin cloth, allowing the wort to run out.

I didn't sparge. I let it drop to 20c then poured into my demijohn and pitched the yeast.

It isn't as red as I'd hoped, but it's not far off. It smelled and tasted like normal wort! I'm going to let it sit for two weeks then bottle (assuming final gravity is reached). I might dry hop in the bottling bucket with 20g Pilgrim Hops.

I got 80% efficiency and an OG of 1.039.

I'll post up the results...
 
I need your help guys. My wife asked me to buy a case of Budweiser Select 55...the low calorie beer that tastes like water. I told her that I'm not spending $18 on a case of that stuff. I decided to make a slightly heavier, raw ale version of it.

I've never done it before, but will use hops and yeast that I have a surplus of and/or dislike. If it's bad, I won't be too upset because I won't invest much time or money into making it. Can you guys look it over and give me some input?

Galena Raw Ale
Method: All Grain
Style: Blonde Ale
Boil Time: 0 min
Batch Size: 10 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 10.63 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.026 (recipe based estimate)
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)
Original Gravity: 1.028 Final Gravity: 1.008 ABV (standard): 2.61% IBU (tinseth): 18.34 SRM (morey): 3.61

Fermentables
Amount Fermentable PPG °L Bill %
9 lb American - Pale 2-Row 37 1.8 90%
1 lb American - Caramel / Crystal 20L 35 20 10%
10 lb Total

Hops
Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
3 oz Galena Pellet 13 Mash 18.34

Hops Summary
Amount Variety Type AA
3 oz Galena Pellet 13

Yeast
Muntons Ale Yeast
Attenuation (avg):
72%
Flocculation:
High
Optimum Temp:
64 - 70 °F
Starter:
No
 
thadeus_d3 said:
I need your help guys. My wife asked me to buy a case of Budweiser Select 55...the low calorie beer that tastes like water. I told her that I'm not spending $18 on a case of that stuff. I decided to make a slightly heavier, raw ale version of it. [...]
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I agree, buying Bud sounds like a waste. For roughly the same cost, you can brew 5 gallons of something way tastier. But $18 for a case is actually a bargain compared to what most craft beer goes for. It's easy to spend $12-18 on a single 6-pack of a not-all-that-special craft beer.

This blonde beer won't be ready for a few weeks. And it's really not comparable to a Bud (or any other American Light Lager). Is your wife OK with that and the wait? Maybe she wanted something today, or this weekend... At least my wife won't buy Bud. We may get Yuengling instead, though. Or one of our other "indulgences."

I can't say that much about your recipe. Malt looks fine, not sure about the yeast, never used that. The 3 oz of Galena in the mash sounds like a waste of good hops. Why the Raw Ale approach? Even a half hour boil with half an ounce should get you those IBUs. And probably a clearer beer in the end.
 
Maybe go with a kolsh yeast if you can't lager.
Mash low
And don't forget the beechwood :p
 
I made my girlfriend a lager because she drinks Fosters :-( She appreciated it and I reaped the rewards ;-)
The raw ale approach might not be ideal, but it's your gig! I couldn't offer any advice on the recipe as I've not finished my raw ale yet so I have no experience with the taste difference. Give it a shot anyway, and let us know the results. I'll appreciate it even if she doesn't...
 
That looks fine but I'd definitely add Whirlfloc to clear it up and do a pasteurization rest where you add the hops. I'd also say lager yeast too, but might not matter too much if she likes a beer like Bud Select :)
 
IslandLizard said:
I agree, buying Bud sounds like a waste. For roughly the same cost, you can brew 5 gallons of something way tastier. But $18 for a case is actually a bargain compared to what most craft beer goes for. It's easy to spend $12-18 on a single 6-pack of a not-all-that-special craft beer.

This blonde beer won't be ready for a few weeks. And it's really not comparable to a Bud (or any other American Light Lager). Is your wife OK with that and the wait? Maybe she wanted something today, or this weekend... At least my wife won't buy Bud. We may get Yuengling instead, though. Or one of our other "indulgences."

I can't say that much about your recipe. Malt looks fine, not sure about the yeast, never used that. The 3 oz of Galena in the mash sounds like a waste of good hops. Why the Raw Ale approach? Even a half hour boil with half an ounce should get you those IBUs. And probably a clearer beer in the end.
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It's only $18 because it's 2.4%abv and supposedly 55 calories per 12oz serving (which I don't believe). We have an upcoming vacation and she wants to get her beach body ready. She's not having an easy time with the delicious Pale Ales that I've been making lately. Yeah, she's fine if it doesn't taste like Bud bc she just wants something lower in calories. At 90 calories per 12 oz serving, I don't see how I can get it much lower without making it < 2% abv.

I wanted to take the raw ale approach just because it'll be a fun experiment. I have 2+ lbs of Galena hops that have been in my freezer for 2 years that I need to use. I also have 7 packs of muntons ale yeast that have been sitting for around a year. I made a pale ale with the yeast and it ended up way too fruity, so I never used it again. All in all, this will be a fun and cheap experiment. I'll be sure to report back with the results.
 
thadeus_d3 said:
A coworker and fellow homebrewer suggested that I just carbonate some water, add hop tea and food coloring. It probably wouldn't taste that much different than Bud select 55. Not a bad idea :)
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I would actually prefer Bud 55 over Iced Tea if I was in the mood for an alcoholic beverage. Some tea gives my heartburn.

Yeah, it's not very flavorful, but it's better than sugary soda. Way fewer calories too, and natural. Even diet soda has fake sugars in it.
 
I have to saw this is a really interesting thread. I have honestly never heard of no-boil beers before, but its intriguing to hear that so many people have had such success with them on here. I will definitely have to do some more research into them. I have been looking for some techniques that would allow me to brew more often and having a shortened brew day would help a lot.
 
I'm doing my first no boil sour beer right now, a 2row and white wheat base that I'll be adding peaches to later. 20m mash at 148, pasteurization rest at 170, throw in some hops and WF, then no chill. Prob 45m start to finish.
 
Cool, which Lacto strain? I just dry hopped my no boil golden sour today. I used Lacto Plantarum to do a fermenter sour. Used Conan yeast for my Sacc fermentation. Added 100g each of Citra and Mosaic to 6 gallons for the dry hop. Grain bill was basically 50/50 2-row and Maris Otter with about 1/2 pound each of acidulated and Carafoam. OG was 1.051, FG was 1.013, and the final pH was 3.2.
 
Same strain actually. 60% 2 row, 40% white wheat, lacto, then s-04, then rack onto the fruit, then light dry hop with Citra.
 
Another update. Poured a liter the other night. Still a little hazy, but it has cleared up somewhat as time as passed. Some slight maturation of the taste, but no real degradation of flavor. I would say it appears to be as stable as any boiled beer, at least up to this point.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1459856494.886949.jpg
 
Brewenstein said:
Another update. Poured a liter the other night. Still a little hazy, but it has cleared up somewhat as time as passed. Some slight maturation of the taste, but no real degradation of flavor. I would say it appears to be as stable as any boiled beer, at least up to this point.

View attachment 348978
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That looks good! Mine is nearly ready to bottle. It's going to be the brownest raw ale here! It was supposed to be a reddish colour...
 

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