Raw Ale / No Boil

[squaremile]

Yeah that's what I do actually, I throw them in at 170, then stir every 10m until I decide to chill it down.

 

[ghohn]

I do the same as square mile does in the previous post. I've gone to a hop spider type device (just a finely woven laundry bag) to serve two functions; recover wort from the hop sponge + keep my keg poppers clear of the green stuff (keg ferment).


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[Owly055]

My hop decoction in both my no boil / no chill brews has worked out very well. Not only does it allow me to get good hop utilization, but allows the whirlfloc to do it's job. I was broadly attacked for calling it a decoction the first go around, but this time I scooped both wort and grain (about a quart) from my mash and boiled it with the hops....... It was easier, but I ended up with a thicker decoction than I wanted. I need to come up with a scoop that filters out most of the grain.
In this process it added zero time to do the 10 minute boil of one quart, and very little energy..... actually none, as the heat was used to help raise the mash to pasteurization temp. It's a side process that makes sense to me as there really is no penalty and significant benefit. It could be said that it is no longer a no boil process, but that would be pretty nit picky, as only about 10% of the wort is boiled.

H.W.

 

[Brewenstein]

My hop decoction in both my no boil / no chill brews has worked out very well. Not only does it allow me to get good hop utilization, but allows the whirlfloc to do it's job. I was broadly attacked for calling it a decoction the first go around, but this time I scooped both wort and grain (about a quart) from my mash and boiled it with the hops....... It was easier, but I ended up with a thicker decoction than I wanted. I need to come up with a scoop that filters out most of the grain.
In this process it added zero time to do the 10 minute boil of one quart, and very little energy..... actually none, as the heat was used to help raise the mash to pasteurization temp. It's a side process that makes sense to me as there really is no penalty and significant benefit. It could be said that it is no longer a no boil process, but that would be pretty nit picky, as only about 10% of the wort is boiled.

H.W.

Thanks for the update. I was following the other thread and was irritated when it got shut down.

I didn't think there was anything that bad about the bickering that got that thread locked, but whatever. I guess you in-and-of yourself are just too controversial for most.

 

[user 204491]

Regardless of what happened in other threads, let's really try to keep this one on topic as it is very informative, and I would like to keep contributing to it

 

[squaremile]

Just kegged/carbed my 10th and 11th no boil beers. Both totally clean, no off flavors, one is a touch on the bitter side for the gravity and style. I have now made 11 of these, 1 was infected with lacto I believe from a compromised better bottle that also damaged a boiled beer, all others have been clean. I thought one batch with pils malt had DMS, but I only got it in one bottle and may have really been oxidation. I haven't tasted any older than 2m, so not sure about long term stability. I have done both chill and no chill with positive results. Whirlfloc is a must especially for no chill, but one chilled beer without Whirlfloc was great but hazy. At this point I personally have enough info to accept doing just a mash and a pasteurization rest as a valid way to make clean ales that do not have a discernable "no boil" character.

 

[Owly055]

Regardless of what happened in other threads, let's really try to keep this one on topic as it is very informative, and I would like to keep contributing to it

Perhaps in the interest of keeping it going, I should refrain from posting ;-)


H.W.

 

[ghohn]

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[ghohn]

just a mash and a pasteurization rest

What temp is everyone doing their pasteurization rests at? I do 75c but haven't been brave enough to go any lower.


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[ghohn]

just a mash and a pasteurization rest

What temp is everyone doing their pasteurization rests at? I do 75c but haven't been brave enough to go any lower.




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[squaremile]

I'm always at 75-80c, which is also when I'm doing a hopstand

 

[Owly055]

What temp is everyone doing their pasteurization rests at? I do 75c but haven't been brave enough to go any lower.




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I shoot for 165F (74C), I would not go much below that..maybe as much as 2 deg C. I feel that 165 is pretty ideal for a hop stand, while staying well below DMS formation temp. It's above the temp used in pasteurization of milk. I would not call it a "rest", as I do not attempt to maintain that temp, I allow it to slow cool from that point.


H.W.

 

[joshesmusica]

This one just popped up on my twitter (if you're really into old farmhouse style brewing, or very traditional raw ale style brewing, look up Lars Garshol. He writes in English.). Thought it was interesting and maybe others would wanna see what the traditional farmhouse way of brewing looked like in Norway. These guys specifically brew raw ale (in a place called Hornindal), but not all the farmhouse brewers do that, but they all pretty much brew with a copper pot, the juniper branches, and some form of kveik (the yeast strains that have just been passed down from generation to generation on these farms).

[ame]https://vimeo.com/156659003/a5b9e9f5ac[/ame]

 

[Jwin]

Yea, 165F is the magic temp for bacteria. Hence why it is the target cooking temperature for poultry

 

[squaremile]

Wow I love that video! Thanks for sharing! I wonder how that tastes?

 

[joshesmusica]

Wow I love that video! Thanks for sharing! I wonder how that tastes?

I tried it at a Norwegian Best of Show competition (it's basically the second biggest homebrewer's competition in Norway, but not officially the year's champion in homebrewing. The beers aren't actually graded by judges, it's voted on by the public). It was very fresh at that time. It was incredibly unclear. It honestly had a mouthfeel that was a bit grainy, and it had a bit of residual sweetness to it that I didn't really like. My wife thoroughly enjoyed it, and used one of her three votes on it.

 

[David_Trucks]

Ok. So I bottled my raw ale today and....it doesn't taste that good. No infection for sure and pretty good clarity, but it has a very garlicky/ onion flavor. Now, I used a heavy amount of Summit hops, which can give a garlicky flavor, but I've never had them do this before and I've used them a few times in the past and got great grapefruit results.

So, can anybody chime in here on this flavor? Is this a product of the no boil or is this a product of Summit hops?

EDIT: I did some research online and it appears that Summit is the culprit here. Oskar Blues Gubna has been said to have this flavor, so I guess I'll need to locate one and compare.

 

[squaremile]

That is def the Summit hops. Gubna was the most garlicy beer I've ever had. I like that flavor in small doses though.

 

[David_Trucks]

That is def the Summit hops. Gubna was the most garlicy beer I've ever had. I like that flavor in small doses though.

Ok, thanks. I'm glad my first attempt at no boil went well. I shall do this more often. Without the Summit, of course.

 

[user 204491]

I posted this over on the MTF page, but thought I'd post it as well here, since this is such a good thread. Here is my first probiotic soured, no-boil beer - Gose before Hoes.

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Grain bill is 50/50 2-row/wheat with 1/2 lb. of acidulated added for a 6 gallon batch.

Mashed and sparged as usual, collected runnings to kettle and heated to 180F.

Added whirlfloc, 28g ground coriander, and 21g sea salt at flame out, and then chilled down to 95F.

Drained to fermenter and pitched 6 Swanson's L Plantarum capsules and allowed it to sour for 48 hours. During that time it dropped from 95F to 78F and went from a pH of 5.44 to 3.25.

Then I dropped the temp to 58F and pitched a 2L starter of WLP029 Kölsch yeast. Fermented at 58 for 5 days, then ramped to 68 for 2 more days. OG was 1.049 and it finished at 1.010.

Dropped the temp to 65F and dry-hoped with 60g each of Nelson and Kohatu along with 28g each of lime and orange zest.

Cold crashed for a couple of days and then kegged it with 4 oz each of Lime and Orange juice.

Nice and tart, the citrus really shines though, and there's just enough salt to make you immediately come back for another sip.
----------

Very excited to have these techniques in my wheelhouse now, and I'm really looking forward to my next attempt in a few weeks - a golden sour co-pitched with L. Plantarum and Conan yeast, dry-hopped with Mosaic and Citra.

 

[Homercidal]

I highly doubt I'd like a Gose, but that name is fantastic!

I'm curious enough to want to try a no boil beer soon. I have some experiments in 1 gallon batches I'd like to do and this would be a good way to combine some things and save time.

I'm also curious if anyone has tried Gelatin to fine the beer after fermentation? I can't see where it would hurt and it might speed up the clarifying process.

 

[user 204491]

I highly doubt I'd like a Gose, but that name is fantastic!

I'm also curious if anyone has tried Gelatin to fine the beer after fermentation? I can't see where it would hurt and it might speed up the clarifying process.

Thanks! I think you have to have a mis-pronounced pun-inspired name if you brew a Gose. That's the rule.

Regarding gelatin, I use it on all my beers, this one included, and it definitely has an impact. This one was pretty cloudy before the cold crash/gelatin phase.

 

[burninator]

Thanks! I think you have to have a mis-pronounced pun-inspired name if you brew a Gose. That's the rule.

Regarding gelatin, I use it on all my beers, this one included, and it definitely has an impact. This one was pretty cloudy before the cold crash/gelatin phase.

Heh...I've been calling mine Gose the Destructor.

That looks awesome. Got me itching to brew a fresh batch.

 

[user 204491]

Heh...I've been calling mine Gose the Destructor.

That looks awesome. Got me itching to brew a fresh batch.

Hah, that's a great name too!

I really recommend giving the no-boil, fermenter-soured technique a try. The whole thing was a lot of fun, going against pretty much all practical homebrewing advice, and in the end resulted in a darn fine beer!

 

[burninator]

Hah, that's a great name too!

I really recommend giving the no-boil, fermenter-soured technique a try. The whole thing was a lot of fun, going against pretty much all practical homebrewing advice, and in the end resulted in a darn fine beer!

That's my approach. Bring it up to first bubble and shut off the heat. Throw in salt and coriander to steep.

I pitch a wild sour culture for the first few days, then assess whether I need additional yeast or not.

 

[user 204491]

That's my approach. Bring it up to first bubble and shut off the heat. Throw in salt and coriander to steep.

I pitch a wild sour culture for the first few days, then assess whether I need additional yeast or not.

Interesting. So you're pitching "everything" in one shot? Do you try to hold temp at any level or just let it go to ambient?

Are you using a commercial culture or something you've created yourself from bottle dregs?

 

[burninator]

Interesting. So you're pitching "everything" in one shot? Do you try to hold temp at any level or just let it go to ambient?

Are you using a commercial culture or something you've created yourself from bottle dregs?

I'm getting a culture from, let's say, unconventional sources (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=517948). Sometimes that culture may require me to augment after a few days with some commercial yeast. I monitor the fermentation and make a judgement. It's all in together, though, at ambient temp.

 

[Homercidal]

NO. There will be no sours.

 

[burninator]

NO. There will be no sours.

Sorry. The gose post started it.

*slinks back to the weird corner of HBT*

 

[RustyHorn]

I brewed my first Raw Ale today and thought I'd post it here just in case somebody actually cares!
I only made a 4.5 litre batch as it's an experiment and that's what my demijohn holds. The grain bill was decided because I had malt to use up.

Whitehorn's Red Raw Ale
The recipe:
600g Pilsner Malt
100g Munich Malt
20g Roasted Barley
20g Phoenix Hops
10g Fuggles Hops
Nottingham Yeast

5.5 litres of Asda Eden Falls Water
1.4g Epsom Salt
1.4g Calcium Chloride
15g Acid Malt

I put the acid malt in at 30c with the salts. Then added the hops at 50c. I did this so that the hops didn't affect beersmith's strike water prediction.

I then added everything else and kept to 67c for 20 minutes, then let it stand, covered, for a further 30 minutes. After that, I heated to 75c.

(I brew in an open muslin cloth) Once it hit 75c, I closed, then pulled out the muslin cloth, allowing the wort to run out.

I didn't sparge. I let it drop to 20c then poured into my demijohn and pitched the yeast.

It isn't as red as I'd hoped, but it's not far off. It smelled and tasted like normal wort! I'm going to let it sit for two weeks then bottle (assuming final gravity is reached). I might dry hop in the bottling bucket with 20g Pilgrim Hops.

I got 80% efficiency and an OG of 1.039.

I'll post up the results...