Random Beer Thoughts

[WhalezB4Rarez]

put out a rotating series of 16 different canned pils of various strengths and with different hops, all with different birds from Audubon Society books on the label. I'd **** with 'em.

send this to Forest & Main they ******* love birds.

 

[furley]

my body type says Costanza, but my hair says Seinfeld

 

[nathanmiller]

Good read (click through for the threaded tweets) for anyone wanting to understand credit and debt in the current craft beer industry and why certain sell-offs may have happened (and may happen again in the future:


(Link to media)


It also brings up a good point: "independence" is now the industry buzzword to signify not being owned by ABI/MC/private equity/etc, but are you really independent if a bank has your balls in a vice grip?

I mean what this guy has to say is pretty much right until the end. We can and should blame the lenders for giving bad loans that would force them to eventually foreclose or attempt to recoup in other fashion. We also can and should blame the borrowers for taking terms that were out of their means based on unrealistic growth models.

In no situation, however, does that mean they weren't "independent" or that they didn't have control. They have full control, provided they can meet the terms of their obligations. Similarly, a brewery with zero debt financing still has obligations to make - be they rent of a space, bills to pay for ingredients, relationships with distributors, or even the obligation to sell some beer in order to put food on their table. Do we claim that they, or any other business, isn't "independent" just because they have obligations? That's a silly definition of the word.

Debt =/= Equity, even if you are in breach of your loan covenants.

The bank has no interest in being in the business of brewing. They just want their money back, or as much of it a is possible.

Bingo. I think the important thing to understand here, and what I take issue with the tweet-thread's conflation of, is the whole idea of "live free or die" as it matters in private enterprise. When you're a private business, there are more concerns than just "can I survive" - there's also the question of "how do I survive" and for a lot of breweries, there is a value in dying free versus surviving as a subsidiary of a larger company you have moral issues with.

 

[sherm10161]

I mean what this guy has to say is pretty much right until the end. We can and should blame the lenders for giving bad loans that would force them to eventually foreclose or attempt to recoup in other fashion. We also can and should blame the borrowers for taking terms that were out of their means based on unrealistic growth models.

In no situation, however, does that mean they weren't "independent" or that they didn't have control. They have full control, provided they can meet the terms of their obligations. Similarly, a brewery with zero debt financing still has obligations to make - be they rent of a space, bills to pay for ingredients, relationships with distributors, or even the obligation to sell some beer in order to put food on their table. Do we claim that they, or any other business, isn't "independent" just because they have obligations? That's a silly definition of the word.

The notion that you will meet your debt covenants in a growing industry that is asset-intensive, but won't as soon as those assets lose value due to over-expansion in the industry, is an interesting concept/topic to discuss, I'll admit. (As an aside: I take issue with the assertion in the tweet(s) that you could ever have gotten "95-100c on the $" on used brewery equipment, but I'm far from an expert in this area.)

The part that I have issue with is the notion that carrying debt somehow implies that you've given up control/independence of your business. A creditor has ZERO control over the business, unless the debtor has violated the debt agreement. Again, the creditor just wants their money back (plus interest, presumably). It's a slightly better position than a non-voting stockholder, with less risk/less reward.

I will agree that the craft brewing industry is probably over-leveraged at the moment, but that doesn't mean the industry is sunk. Most craft breweries are small and nimble and would in theory be able to pivot their business model if need be, like Shmaltz has done. Finding that profitable model to pivot to will be trick, and it's likely that more breweries will go under in the process.

 

[flyingbison]

my body type says Costanza, but my hair says Seinfeld

I always had you pegged as a Kramer.

 

[AndresR]

No Facebook huh? There was this one lady in the Barleywine is Life group that ripped on Caetie Shea (the girl who passed away a few weeks ago, saying that she was bad for women in craft beer/gave them a bad name etc.). This same lady had photos with her ass exposed on her Facebook profile and claimed to be a sex worker of some sort.

People ripped her a new one and she left the group. I guess after that she posted about how she had been a beer buyer at Binny's for a year and was tired of being underpaid and was looking for a new job in beer.

At DLD she and her fiance (they apparently got engaged DLD morning) were just generally terrors (ridiculous moshing/fighting in a 3 person mosh pit etc.). Then I guess she dropped trow and pissed in front of a bunch of people (there are photos) and was arrested. Binny's then issued a statement saying that she was an employee there but not a beer buyer etc. etc.

It's this type of stuff that makes me feel like I'm not doing anything with my life.

Sad.

 

[jivex5k1]

It's this type of stuff that makes me feel like I'm not doing anything with my life.

Sad.

Don't give up. If you work hard and study I have no doubt you can get arrested for public intoxication and indecency!

 

[primebeer]

Good read (click through for the threaded tweets) for anyone wanting to understand credit and debt in the current craft beer industry and why certain sell-offs may have happened (and may happen again in the future:


(Link to media)


It also brings up a good point: "independence" is now the industry buzzword to signify not being owned by ABI/MC/private equity/etc, but are you really independent if a bank has your balls in a vice grip?

I would challenge how the general craft beer nerd defines independence. The majority are only aware of and care about hating on ABI owned brands, a smaller portion know and care about hating MillerCoors brands, and a minuscule if not non-existent portion bash those who have sold to private equity. And this doesn’t even mention the Constellations/Heineken/San Miguel/insert other large alcohol company heres of the world.

If the ABI acquisitions and the private equity acquisitions were treated the same and everything in between as well, the US craft market/sentiment would look remarkably different than it does today. At least in my opinion. I don’t know.

 

[stakem1]

One of the few people who live close to me that I drink beer with regularly... referred to a hazy ipa as “beautiful.”

We are no longer friends.

ISO new beer drinking buddies.

 

[nathanmiller]

One of the few people who live close to me that I drink beer with regularly... referred to a hazy ipa as “beautiful.”

We are no longer friends.

ISO new beer drinking buddies.

Some hazy ipas are beautiful! For example, some look like orange juice. Orange juice is beautiful! It is sweet and tasty, brightly colored, and can provide a lovely soothing balm to a sore throat or a cold. Some look like chicken soup. Chicken soup is beautiful! It's savory, filled with love, and reminds many people of when loved ones took care of them while they had a sore throat or a cold. Some look like gravy. Gravy is beautiful! It's rich, reminiscent of thanksgiving meals, chicken fried steak, or other comfort foods such as those eaten when someone has a sore throat or a cold. Some look like phlegm. Phlegm is beautiful! It's slimy, nasty, but a nice indication that one is nearing the end of their battle with a sore throat or a cold.

I've been sick with a sore throat and cold since Saturday and have had very little (not nothing though, I'm not an animal) to drink and a hazy IPA sounds beautiful right now.

 

[JulianB1]

One of the few people who live close to me that I drink beer with regularly... referred to a hazy ipa as “beautiful.”

We are no longer friends.

ISO new beer drinking buddies.

Personally I think they can be when they have that really uniform "glow lamp" appearance, but are not flat out opaque or murky. A lot of HF IPAs qualify here, or the non-milkshake Tired Hands ones. There's a fine line, but

this is a pretty beer:

this is not:

 

[FTowne1]

Some hazy ipas are beautiful! For example, some look like orange juice. Orange juice is beautiful! It is sweet and tasty, brightly colored, and can provide a lovely soothing balm to a sore throat or a cold. Some look like chicken soup. Chicken soup is beautiful! It's savory, filled with love, and reminds many people of when loved ones took care of them while they had a sore throat or a cold. Some look like gravy. Gravy is beautiful! It's rich, reminiscent of thanksgiving meals, chicken fried steak, or other comfort foods such as those eaten when someone has a sore throat or a cold. Some look like phlegm. Phlegm is beautiful! It's slimy, nasty, but a nice indication that one is nearing the end of their battle with a sore throat or a cold.

I've been sick with a sore throat and cold since Saturday and have had very little (not nothing though, I'm not an animal) to drink and a hazy IPA sounds beautiful right now.

Yeah, the burn from all the hop particles would probably be great for a sore throat.

 

[boogercrack]

Yeah, the burn from all the hop particles would probably be great for a sore throat.

It's like these kids don't do Jack Daniel's and honey any more

 

[flyingbison]

It's like these kids don't do Jack Daniel's and honey any more

What's the honey for?

 

[NClambicguy]

Personally I think they can be when they have that really uniform "glow lamp" appearance, but are not flat out opaque or murky. A lot of HF IPAs qualify here, or the non-milkshake Tired Hands ones. There's a fine line, but

this is a pretty beer:

this is not:

Well I mean, they do make the best beers of any brewery across almost every beer style...

 

[wuntrikpony]

Personally I think they can be when they have that really uniform "glow lamp" appearance, but are not flat out opaque or murky. A lot of HF IPAs qualify here, or the non-milkshake Tired Hands ones. There's a fine line, but

this is a pretty beer:

this is not:

Exposure and white balance are off. Argument invalid.

 

[JulianB1]

Exposure and white balance are off. Argument invalid.

Hey hey hey I'm no professional beertographer here.

 

[JCastle1]

Hey hey hey I'm no professional beertographer here.

You're only a GoFundMe away from becoming one!

 

[wuntrikpony]

Hey hey hey I'm no professional beertographer here.

It can be remedied!

 

[JulianB1]

You're only a GoFundMe away from becoming one!

When A Man Is Photographing

 

[TripleSixHoppia]

I guess you haven't been to Bearded Iris... Nine out of nine drafts were NEIPA when I went. The beer wasn't bad but I still left seriously disappointed after all I've been hearing.

HAHA. That's my buddies brewery. I took some of the gym bros there after a competition in Nashville. We get there and one of the guys is like, I don't like IPA. Looked at the board, FUUUUUUUUUUCK.

They use to make a beer called Best Bet ESB that was by far my favorite beer they've ever done. Tasted like fresh London Pride. Unfortunately they make Hazy IPA and drain 60bbl tanks in a week or less. Can't hate on them for following the market.

 

[JCastle1]

HAHA. That's my buddies brewery. I took some of the gym bros there after a competition in Nashville. We get there and one of the guys is like, I don't like IPA. Looked at the board, FUUUUUUUUUUCK.

They use to make a beer called Best Bet ESB that was by far my favorite beer they've ever done. Tasted like fresh London Pride. Unfortunately they make Hazy IPA and drain 60bbl tanks in a week or less. Can't hate on them for following the market.

Yeah don't blame them. The beer was good and the place was packed both times I went but after the third glass everything started to taste the same.

 

[jivex5k1]

Can't hate on them for following the market.

Sure we can!

 

[stupac2]

Yeah don't blame them. The beer was good and the place was packed both times I went but after the third glass everything started to taste the same.

This is one of the things I don't get about the haze craze, they really all taste the same. Maybe I'm just missing the good ones or whatever but it seems like the range of flavors is really compressed and boring compared to WC.

 

[flexabull]

This is one of the things I don't get about the haze craze, they really all taste the same. Maybe I'm just missing the good ones or whatever but it seems like the range of flavors is really compressed and boring compared to WC.

Agreed. One of my local breweries seems to be putting out a new hazy IPA every other week. And while most of them have been good, if I blind tasted them there is no way I'd be able to tell which is which.

I've started asking breweries/pubs I visit what IPAs they have that aren't hazy. In a lot of places the choices are slim.

 

[pen15clubmember]

Agreed. One of my local breweries seems to be putting out a new hazy IPA every other week. And while most of them have been good, if I blind tasted them there is no way I'd be able to tell which is which.

I've started asking breweries/pubs I visit what IPAs they have that aren't hazy. In a lot of places the choices are slim.

You're in SoCal right? In the Bay Area, they have not taken over nearly to that degree. Hell, Cellarmaker in SF often has a good six hoppy beers on the board and sometimes that have no hazebro beers on. Maybe, I'm not going to the "right" places but I rarely see more than like 2 handles of hazy IPA anywhere, except maybe Fieldwork.

edit: but more people are starting to make brut IPAs. stop trying to make brut IPA happen

 

[flexabull]

You're in SoCal right? In the Bay Area, they have not taken over nearly to that degree. Hell, Cellarmaker in SF often has a good six hoppy beers on the board and sometimes that have no hazebro beers on. Maybe, I'm not going to the "right" places but I rarely see more than like 2 handles of hazy IPA anywhere, except maybe Fieldwork.

edit: but more people are starting to make brut IPAs. stop trying to make brut IPA happen

North of you.

I am curious of at least trying a brut IPA

 

[FoudreGuy]

Great Notion has a Brut IPA on right now, curious to try it on Monday when I'm driving through Portland.

 

[drgarage1]

North of you.

I am curious of at least trying a brut IPA

There is nothing new or interesting about them.

 

[flexabull]

There is nothing new or interesting about them.

Noted. I wasn't going to try to hunt one down, but if I happen to spot one on tap somewhere I'll give it a try. I guess there is still a little bit of a "ticker" in me.