Quick Lager Method *UPDATED*

[brettwasbtd]

I have only tried this method once on a bohemian pilsener that I made this January with wlp800 yeast. It was a diacetyl butter bomb for 3 weeks of lagering, started to subside on week 4 and disappeared between week 5 and 6. Im guessing this is how this strain of yeast behaves but just wanted to throw my experience out there to et people know you may have to still have patience and let a lager...well lager! Beer is great now for what its worth.

I will have to try out more exbeerimentation with this next winter when I do lagers

 

[Raisoshi]

(OG-expFG)/2= 50% attenuation

So...

(1.060-1.014)/2 = 1.023

But honestly, I've started ramping at ~20% attenuation and have had great results.

Are you sure this is right? It seems counter-intuitive to me. What seems intuitive to me is that with that formula you find out that 23 points is half of your expected amount of attenuation(which is 1.060-1.014=46), so 1.060-1.023 = 1.037 is 50% attenuated.

 

[user 141939]

Maybe it's simpler to do the ramp up as the krausen begins to fall. I read that somewhere and it seemed to work great for me the one time I made a lager.

 

[kombat]

Are you sure this is right? It seems counter-intuitive to me. What seems intuitive to me is that with that formula you find out that 23 points is half of your expected amount of attenuation(which is 1.060-1.014=46), so 1.060-1.023 = 1.037 is 50% attenuated.

You are correct. I was just about to post the same thing.

 

[brewfarmDan]

I made a few updates to my quick lager method article, check it out.

http://brulosophy.com/lager-method

Cheers!

Thanks Brulas. I was waiting to get some Ales stored before running Lager but this looks like I could be starting a lot sooner than expected

 

[wobdee]

Maybe it's simpler to do the ramp up as the krausen begins to fall. I read that somewhere and it seemed to work great for me the one time I made a lager.

This is what I do. Krausen begins to fall and the yeast cake starts to form on the bottom of the fermenter. I've taken gravities at this time and its always around 70% done then I just set the temp up to 60 for a few days for D rest.

 

[Braufessor]

Hey Brulosopher, I don't mean to question your technique too much, but have any beers produced using this method won any awards in competition? I can see the nice pictures of clear beer, but am skeptical of the flavor is really the same as the traditional long lager method. I would love to try this method as helles is one of my favorite styles, but I am worried about losing a batch (I guess all I'd have to do to save it would be continue lagering ).

I use this basic method (or similar) all the time.
*Chill to 48
*Day 1-5 @ gradual 1 degree a day from 48-52
*Day 6-7 @ 52-54
*Day 8-10 Take out of fermentation chamber and put in basement @60-64
*Day 10-14 Upstairs @ 66-68
Back downstairs and gradually crash to 31 in chamber about 5 degrees every 12 hours. Day 18-21 Keg. Lager and carbonate @31. Drinking by 4-6 weeks.

*Sometimes I use gelatin, sometimes not.... kind of depends on the yeast a bit. Danish Lager yeast seems to stay in suspension longer for me so I often use gelatin with that yeast.

I used this on my Dortmunder that placed 1st at St. Louis NHC first round this year. Same technique on my Dortmunder that placed 1st in KC NHC first round last year too.

This method/similar variations can absolutely make great looking AND tasting lagers.

 

[Brulosopher]

Are you sure this is right? It seems counter-intuitive to me. What seems intuitive to me is that with that formula you find out that 23 points is half of your expected amount of attenuation(which is 1.060-1.014=46), so 1.060-1.023 = 1.037 is 50% attenuated.

Huh. First time I did this method was with 800 and tonight I'll be kegging 10 gal of BoPils I made with 800 18 days ago. Super clean.

I have only tried this method once on a bohemian pilsener that I made this January with wlp800 yeast. It was a diacetyl butter bomb for 3 weeks of lagering, started to subside on week 4 and disappeared between week 5 and 6. Im guessing this is how this strain of yeast behaves but just wanted to throw my experience out there to et people know you may have to still have patience and let a lager...well lager! Beer is great now for what its worth.

I will have to try out more exbeerimentation with this next winter when I do lagers

Argh, you're right. My bad!

 

[brew_ny]

Thank you after reading this I will have to try a lager


all the best

S_M

 

[Raisoshi]

Huh. First time I did this method was with 800 and tonight I'll be kegging 10 gal of BoPils I made with 800 18 days ago. Super clean.

Well if that's the way you do it then that's the way you do it

I just have to adjust the number in my mind, in the way I'm used to thinking that's 77.5% attenuated, 22.5% to go.

 

[bacgabe]

I think Brulo accidentally put the wrong explanation under the wrong quote. I think he agrees that 1.037 would be 50%, for what it's worth.

 

[Gavin C]

Depending on what is meant by 50% attenuation, both versions can be correct I think.

If using a yeast that is going to attenuate 80% for a given brew
eg OG 1.060 FG 1.010

50% attenuation could be defined as 50 on the way to 80 in which case it is 5/8 of the way to FG. i.e. 1.029

Or 50% may mean 50% done i.e.: 1.035


I take it to mean 50% attenuation on its way to 80% max (The first definition). That way it is the same for every brew and yeast type regardless of projected anticipated FG. This definition is independent of the projected attenuation.

 

[Raisoshi]

I think Brulo accidentally put the wrong explanation under the wrong quote. I think he agrees that 1.037 would be 50%, for what it's worth.

Oh now that makes sense. I was indeed a bit confused by that reply.

 

[Denny]

Geez, you guys are way too hung up on the exact nature of 50%!

 

[Gavin C]

@denny

I suppose it is a bit pointless to log on to HBT in the hope of trying to learn new things. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll be sure to bear that in mind the next time I don't understand something entirely or realize others have a slightly differing take on it. What was I thinking?!

 

[ZebulonBrewer]

I think what he's saying is that those 7 gravity points aren't a big deal in terms of fermentation time. With the timings involved, it's maybe a day? Unless you're on a big time crunch, who cares about the one day. Plus, all things considered, you should avoid opening your bucket/carboy as much as possible.

 

[Raisoshi]

I think what he's saying is that those 7 gravity points aren't a big deal in terms of fermentation time. With the timings involved, it's maybe a day? Unless you're on a big time crunch, who cares about the one day. Plus, all things considered, you should avoid opening your bucket/carboy as much as possible.

Well, some people are more relaxed, some like to stick to a precise method, I'm the latter

You may be right, but I just "feel" better following specifics.

 

[Denny]

@denny

I suppose it is a bit pointless to log on to HBT in the hope of trying to learn new things. Thanks for pointing that out. I'll be sure to bear that in mind the next time I don't understand something entirely or realize others have a slightly differing take on it. What was I thinking?!

I hope you learned that it's something you don't need to obsess about. That was my point.

 

[Gavin C]

I hope you learned that it's something you don't need to obsess about. That was my point.

I did learn something from the thread, that's for sure.

 

[SpeedYellow]

The time savings here boils down to just two differences from how we've all been taught to make lagers:

(1) Ramp up for the diacetyl rest once you've hit 50% attenuation instead of 80%; and

(2) Don't bother to lager for 4-8 weeks; just give it a week.

Certainly item #1 would save a couple days, perhaps without hurting the beer. But #2 is a big fail. Lagering cannot just be skipped -- they virtually always improve dramatically in the first month. A suggestion to skip it is quite concerning, to put it politely.

 

[g-star]

But #2 is a big fail. Lagering cannot just be skipped -- they virtually always improve dramatically in the first month. A suggestion to skip it is quite concerning, to put it politely.

You should try it before offering your wisdom. In my experience doing it both ways, the methods described in this thread will get you 97% of the way there in 3 weeks. There is marginal improvement after another 4-6 weeks of lagering, but it is no way dramatic.

 

[azazel1024]

I am just starting to experiment with it. My first lager was ice bathed and then 4 weeks in the fermentation chamber at 40F (Dopplebock) and it was pretty good. It didn't use the fermentation chamber, because I built a temp controller and converted a mini-fridge after fermentation was complete.

Then I did a German Pilsner where it sat at 50F for 10 days and then at 62F to finish attenuating and then 40F for 4 weeks.

I just did an English Pale Lager (kind of a Vienna, with English hops) and a Schwarzbier together in the fermentation chamber. 5 days at 48F, 3 days at 50F and then turned it off and opened it up to sit at 64F for 3 days before I dropped them to 38F over the course of 3 days (Dropped about 4F in the morning and then when I got home from work each day till I hit 38F). Including the ramp down, 2 weeks and I bottled then back to back.

They are frankly awesome. Clean, clear, great beers. All told it was about 24 days +/- 2 days (because I don't remember exact dates I brewed both beers on or exact day I bottled). I think it is probably what I am going to follow for all lagers in the future, though I might try going with an extra week lagering for the big lagers, like Dopplebocks, Baltic Lagers and DIPLs.

 

[SpeedYellow]

You should try it before offering your wisdom. In my experience doing it both ways, the methods described in this thread will get you 97% of the way there in 3 weeks. There is marginal improvement after another 4-6 weeks of lagering, but it is no way dramatic.

Well obviously I have tried drinking unlagered lagers, and dozens of times. It doesn't end well. The only difference between my and this method is that I wait until 80-90% attenuated, instead of 50%, before ramping up to the d-rest. Is the claim here that ramping up sooner to the d-rest somehow eliminates the need for lagering? That seems an unlikely cause-and-effect, but if that's what folks are claiming, I'll definitely give it a shot.

 

[kombat]

I've tried rushing my d-rest before and always ended up with a green-apple bomb. I've found that being patient and holding that temperature right at 10.5° C (51° F) for a full 2 weeks, then warming it up to room temperature for another week, give me the best, cleanest possible flavour in my lagers. After the 3 weeks are up (2 @ 51° F, 1 at room temp, around 65° F), it gets racked to a keg, purged, and put in the fridge (34° F) on CO2. 2 weeks later, it's carbed and drinkable. A month later, it's crystal clear and delicious.

 

[Denny]

The time savings here boils down to just two differences from how we've all been taught to make lagers:

(1) Ramp up for the diacetyl rest once you've hit 50% attenuation instead of 80%; and

(2) Don't bother to lager for 4-8 weeks; just give it a week.

Certainly item #1 would save a couple days, perhaps without hurting the beer. But #2 is a big fail. Lagering cannot just be skipped -- they virtually always improve dramatically in the first month. A suggestion to skip it is quite concerning, to put it politely.

Based on my personal results, I've have to disagree. I've judged a BOS lager that was never lagered at all! Could you tell us about your results when you tried this method?

 

[m00ps]

Hey dude, thanks for the info!

I read the original article you posted on your blog and started a thread a while back asking if anyone had success doing it. Fast forward to me getting to cater a wedding with exclusively my homebrew. By far, the most popular beer I had was my honeyed "Winnie the Pale Ale" which I used your method with a cream ale hybrid yeast. So I will attest that the technique works

 

[rrkss32]

This method works. The majority of my homebrews are lagers. What I do for my beers with an OG of 1.042-1.058 is simple.

1. Chill wort to 48 degrees and pitch a good healthy starter. Immediately set fermenter to 52 degrees.

2. 5 days after pitching raise temperature to 55 degrees for 24 hours. Next day raise temperature to 58 degrees. Usually by this time the krausen is starting to fall and you can see fermentation slowing down. 12 hours later, raise temperature to 62 degrees and then 12 hour after that raise temperature to 65 degrees where it will sit for 72 hours. By the time the temperature hits 62 degrees, the Krausen is gone.

3. After 72 hour diacetyl rest at 65 degrees, take a FG reading and do a microwave diacetyl test (separate hydrometer sample into two glasses. heat one glass to 150 degrees and leave the other untouched, the let them cool to room temperature and taste. Other than a reduction in carbonation both samples should taste the same which tells me diacetyl rest is complete).

4. If sample is at my target FG and passes diacetyl test, crash cool to 33 degrees and Keg. Then force carbonate and store at 38 degrees into my kegerator until the keg this brew is replacing kicks.

I've produced nothing but good delicious clean lagers using this method and highly recommend it.

 

[m00ps]

Really good stuff. I am going to try it out once I get my brewjacket (in a few weeks) http://www.brewjacket.com/

Holy S$&%snacks, I NEED one of those. I already have a chest freezer for temp control, but I don;t like the idea of tying it up for weeks with a lager and not being able to use it for my ales. Please let me know if that thing is worth the money

 

[oujens]

This thread made me so happy. Yesterday around noon, the power at my house went out. In my garage, my lone power outlet in the wall is GFCI, so when the power kicked backed on, my fermentation refrigerator did not. My lager (using Wyeast 2206) was fermenting happily at 50F, but when I got home from work it had raised to 56F. Turns out I was 5 days in and at 1.026 when I got home (OG 1.055). Unintentionally, I guess I'm using this method. Went ahead and cooled to to 54-55F and will bump it up over the next couple of days. This is my first lager so can't wait to taste the results. I still might not tap it until September, but who can honestly stay out of their keg that long?

 

[gometz]

Well, I'm eating crow. My helles came out great.

View attachment 1436734595146.jpg