Puzzled by Lager

[mac_1103]

As long as the yeast never sees oxygen it stands a better chance than any other method to be reused.

Can you please clarify - don't you need to oxygenate the wort when repitching yeast? Do you just mean no oxygen exposure between batches?

 

[Bramling Cross]

This is true. I just relistened to a Master Brewers podcast about Fermentis' profiling of their 34/70 yeast. The bottom line was that they came to the conclusion that it is an extremely stable yeast and it's profile was virtually unchanged from 51F to 68F. The biggest thing that changed with lower temperatures was that the fermentation was prolonged and it needed a larger pitch.

https://www.masterbrewerspodcast.com/216

I probably won't ferment my pils at 68, but I will likely move it up to 55-56F and see how it goes.

I agree. If the beer is to be consumed in warm months, I use 34/70. If it will be consumed between November and Febuary, or is copper colored or darker, I use S-189.

At the end of the day, there's way more in common between good lager yeasts than there are differences--and those differences that do exist are subtle. So the main thing to look at, to my mind, when choosing a lager strain is its performance. In terms of performance, 34/70 has few rivals.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I'm confused by the nature of Mexican Cerveza. What is it? Everyone seems to be talking about a kind of lager, but it looks a long way away from a pilsner. I see it contains corn and I know (or I think I know) that cream ale is also heavy on adjuncts. Is there a difference?
I don't think I've ever tasted either style. We have something called Corona here, but it looks very industrial and mass produced. Any clarification would be most welcome.

Home brewing tends to be very prone to fads because a lot of people prefer silver bullet solutions to the mind numbing boredom and frustration inherent in slow iteration. Mexican lager yeast is just a recent fad. It'll pass, like all the others.

Turning directly to your question, Mexico's brewing history is long, interesting, and complicated. Frankly, I can't do it justice, but I will hazard a very broad brush strokes description. There are two primary tides at work within the Mexican tradition. First, emigre Austrian and German brewers set up shop in Mexico during the 19th Century, so Mexico developed and held onto a Vienna-based brewing tradition. It's pretty common to see copper and darker colored beers being brewed in Mexico because of this heritage. Second, Mexico's brewers had to come to terms with the same material, technical, and climatic challenges as German and Austrian brewers were facing in the Ohio River Valley during the mid-19 Century. Like those brewers, the Mexican brewers embraced corn and rice to deal with the challenges posed by North American 6-row barley. They also embraced corn and rice because, as was being argued in the German brewing literature of the time, they really do help a lager to be more more quaffable--especially when it's 35C.

Anyway, that's a very quick and dirty explanation. Others know more about this than I do, so I should probably quit while I'm ahead. I hope you found this useful as a starting point.

 

[Bassman2003]

Can you please clarify - don't you need to oxygenate the wort when repitching yeast? Do you just mean no oxygen exposure between batches?

I mean about transfer and storage. The old mason jar approach that we have all done is a horrible way to keep yeast alive. Closed transfer into a CO2 purged brink pretty much just puts them to sleep. Oxygen + food = activity. CO2 without much food = sleep. So a keg of fermented beer turns out to be a decent place to store yeast.

If one brews clean (no trub in the fermenter), I could see a scenario where one could ferment and serve from the same keg and only have to introduce new wort and repeat. It would be interesting to see how many batches could be made before things went sideways...

 

[An Ankoù]

Anyway, that's a very quick and dirty explanation. Others know more about this than I do, so I should probably quit while I'm ahead. I hope you found this useful as a starting point.

Very useful thank you. Knowing that there's a history, means there's, no doubt, literature to be found somewhere.

 

[Dland]

I would say pitching enough yeast is more important than a D-rest. Homebrewers often under-pitch lagers. You want to gang up on a lager with a ton a fresh, healthy yeast. Then one does not need a D-rest because the yeast power through and do not leave any off flavors. The idea of a D-rest is to get the yeast to eat up any by products that they did not consume because they were worn out. If they were strong, they would consume the by products even at low temperatures.

How much is enough yeast? Everyone will balk at this but 4-5 packs for a 5 gallon batch. Then you will see a lager fermentation act like an ale fermentation. The main reason everyone says to 'be patient with lagers' is they most likely under pitched and the yeast are overwhelmed with the task at hand. So they take forever. I am not saying this to point fingers as I have struggled with this myself. I say it to help improve everybody's lagers.

Pitch a lot of yeast. I mean a lot a lot and then capture that yeast cake into a yeast brink (CO2 environment, no oxygen cold storage) and repitch all of the yeast for the next batch. Then you will get your money back for the 4-5 packs and have better fermentation to boot.

I've found that brews fermented at very low temps need a D rest to work out the D as well as other yeast by products. Most of the time I'm running "cone to cone" or continuous brews, putting new wort on a full liter or more of yeast cake/fresh last brew, so there is no question of an underpitch.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Well, raising the temperature as recommended here has had significant results. After only dropping from 1.048 to 1.035 in two weeks, I was definitely puzzled. I gradually raised the temperature a couple/few degrees every day morning and evening and it’s now sitting at 1.015 at 63°. I suppose I should take it on up a few degrees and let it clean up good before taking it back down for four weeks or so of lagering.

I appreciate all the help!

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Just a little follow up. The Mexican lager\Corona clone has been lagering since first week of May. It is beer! It doesn’t taste exactly like a Corona, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
I do find it quite refreshing with a dash of salt and a splash of lemon juice with the heat index pushing, and sometimes exceeding, 100°.
As a first attempt at a lager, I accomplished my goal. I learned a little about how to do a lager with the equipment I have, I got some good advice from folks here, and I ended up with a beer that I can drink and enjoy.
I take that as a win, win, win!

 

[Willy]

I am doing a pilsner lager right now... At 56°F - day 2. In a mini freezer with a collar and an inkbird . Almost 6 gal.

I have used one pack of 34/70 for smaller batches, but just because... I usually pitch 2 packs for 5-7.5 gallonbatches... And 3 for 10-12 gal batches.

Glad the lager worked out for you. The first one is the hardest since it is a plunge into the great unknown. The reward is - Lagers can be cleaner and friskier than still very tasty blonde ales. Of course, that is quite debatable. Ha.