Questions about Nitro

[crane]

I recently bought all the stuff to serve nitro and got my nitrogen tank exchanged at airgas for the 30/70 beer gas blend. I am planning on making a guinness clone for the maden voyage.

First question is on carbonating prior to serving. Do I carbonate with regular CO2 as you normally do by using a regular CO2 carbonation chart to get to my desired CO2 volume as I would if I was going to serve it on CO2?

Second question is how do I determine what pressure to set my beer gas mix to for serving? I keep my kegerator at 40F.

I've done a bunch of searching and can't seem to find good answers to these questions.

 

[jmward21]

This was the best I found during my research.

http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=48144

 

[crane]

This was the best I found during my research.

http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=48144

Thanks. This is what I was looking for. So I can still carbonate with CO2 as normal, but at a lower volume like 1.2 as opposed to 2.3-2.5 volumes.

 

[jmward21]

You got it. I'm not going to lie, I'm still having foaming issues with mine. I bought a nitro gauge off of amazon which was a mistake. The delivery pressure has too large of a scale (0-400). I bought a new gauge (0-60) but I couldn't get the old gauge off the regulator. Right now, I have no idea what pressure I am supplying to the keg. The needle on the gauge is at the bottom, but I think it is too much. I will power through this keg and just give myself a few minutes between the pour and enjoy phase. Once empty, I will spend some time trying to replace the gauge (I think I need to heat it).

 

[motobrewer]

I also have had some foaming problems with my nitro setup. I've run 3 kegs through mine. I think the biggest thing that I've learned is that the beer has enough carbonation in it just from fermentation. So any carbonation via CO2 is going to over-carb the beer and create a mess.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Thanks. This is what I was looking for. So I can still carbonate with CO2 as normal, but at a lower volume like 1.2 as opposed to 2.3-2.5 volumes.

Yes. I would do about 25-30 PSI of CO2 for 24 hours max (assuming beer is warm when put in fridge and the CO2 connected - if the beer is already cold, then do 18 hours max). After that, switch to the mix and give it several days @ 30-32 PSI to come up before the signature cascading head effect is achieved. The trick is to undershoot with CO2 and sneak up to the optimum carb level with the mix without overshooting. The window for the carb zone on beer gas is extremely small and not very forgiving. Exceed the window with too much carb and you'll have nothing but a glass of foam.

 

[jmward21]

I also have had some foaming problems with my nitro setup. I've run 3 kegs through mine. I think the biggest thing that I've learned is that the beer has enough carbonation in it just from fermentation. So any carbonation via CO2 is going to over-carb the beer and create a mess.

I thought I overcarbed it, but I actually took off the regulator and left the ball lock connected for a couple of days. So that was a couple of days for the CO2 to escape the beer and it didn't change anything.

I am also going to increase the line length of the liquid line. So hopefully these 2 things will fix me up.

 

[motobrewer]

I thought I overcarbed it, but I actually took off the regulator and left the ball lock connected for a couple of days. So that was a couple of days for the CO2 to escape the beer and it didn't change anything

i did the same thing, except it takes more like a couple weeks, at fridge temps.

 

[atom]

my nitro beers sit at room temp (70ish) at 8 psi for a few weeks on co2. dispense at 30 psi on beergas at 40 degrees. no foaming issues since i started this process.

 

[motobrewer]

Yes. I would do about 25-30 PSI of CO2 for 24 hours max

i would be hesitant to even do this. chances are the beer already has the appropriate carb level. I would hook it up to your beer gas and taste it.

 

[jmward21]

i did the same thing, except it takes more like a couple weeks, at fridge temps.

OK, well if that's the case, I may still have over-carbed beer. However, I originally carbed the beer by following the steps from LLBeanJ (from a thread a little while back). I get a good cascade at first but it slows down as the pour continues. It takes about 5 minutes for it to fully turn from foam to beer. The mouth feel and taste is still good so I just deal with. The pour is pretty fast which is why I think the pressure is too high. It pours a lot faster than Guinness at the bar.

 

[LLBeanJ]

i would be hesitant to even do this. chances are the beer already has the appropriate carb level. I would hook it up to your beer gas and taste it.

It's what I do and I've found it works well for me. When I've tried set and forget using the mix right from the start, it takes about 2 weeks before it even starts to produce any foam and another week or so after that for optimum foam.

 

[jmward21]

This is my pour after about 1 minute.

 

[motobrewer]

yikes. since you showed me yours i'll show you mine.

but you'll have to wait a few hours.

 

[crane]

my nitro beers sit at room temp (70ish) at 8 psi for a few weeks on co2. dispense at 30 psi on beergas at 40 degrees. no foaming issues since i started this process.

This is good info. I pressure ferment and normally ramp up to 30psi at the end of the week to achieve full carbonation. So for a nitro I will just ramp up to 8-10 psi after the first day of fermentation and keep it there for the remainder of fermentation.

 

[LLBeanJ]

This is good info. I pressure ferment and normally ramp up to 30psi at the end of the week to achieve full carbonation. So for a nitro I will just ramp up to 8-10 psi after the first day of fermentation and keep it there for the remainder of fermentation.

If you're pressure fermenting then, yes, you're probably already carbed enough for nitro right out of the fermenter.

 

[motobrewer]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1433373297.812288.jpg

This was taken as soon as the "dust settled"

 

[masonsjax]

It is very, very easy to overshoot the carb levels for nitro. The difference between perfect and a glass of foam is really tiny. I just leave mine hooked up to the beergas and within a week it's cascading. After about 10 days it's a perfect pour. This takes much less time than overshooting and waiting for it to settle back down to the right level.

I also use an 80 cuft tank so I'm not very concerned about saving every little bit of beergas for serving only.

 

[crane]

Ok so I am finally pouring my first keg on nitro and I couldn't be happier. Here is a pic from 1 minute after pouring.

As I mentioned previously I use pressurized fermentation so after day 1 of fermentation I set the pressure to 8psi. It stayed at 8 until the end of fermentation week, then I cold crashed. After cold crashing I counter pressure transferred to serving kegs. The kegerator is set to 40F, and the serving pressure is set to 30psi. My beer gas blend is 75/25.

Hopefully following this schedule will give me pours as good as this for other beers. BTW this is a dry Irish stout (Guinness clone) and the creaminess you get from the flaked oats is so much better on nitro than plane CO2.

View attachment 1445178373251.jpg

 

[spittybug]

I too pressure ferment in carboys now. Rather than jumping into the nitrogen arena, I was going to try a hand pump and aeration head. My plan is to pressure ferment to ~8 lbs CO2 initially, connect the rocket hand pump and back fill the corny as it is dispensed with very light CO2 just to avoid doing it with O2. I'm hoping that the hand pumping through the aeration head will give me some of that creaming effect without nitrogen.

I've got the hand pump but haven't built it all up yet. Anyone done this?