question on mashout

[General_Jah]

Hey guys, I am interested in having the option of breaking my brew day into two days. What I am planning on doing is after mashout to leave the wort in my kettle and then the next day boil it.

My question is this.

At 170F the enzymes should be denatured but if/when the temp drops back down into protein/sach ranges will the mash process start back up again or will those enzymes be destroyed from the 170F mashout temp and I should be safe from my wort cooling overnight?

Thanks!

 

[Yooper]

Hey guys, I am interested in having the option of breaking my brew day into two days. What I am planning on doing is after mashout to leave the wort in my kettle and then the next day boil it.

My question is this.

At 170F the enzymes should be denatured but if/when the temp drops back down into protein/sach ranges will the mash process start back up again or will those enzymes be destroyed from the 170F mashout temp and I should be safe from my wort cooling overnight?

Thanks!

Once the enzymes are denatured, they won't be active again. The only risk I can think of is that without bringing to a boil, the wort might sit in the active range for microorganisms like lactobacillus and others for a lengthy time. I think 140 degrees or lower is the "danger zone", at least for food safety. I would think that it would cool relatively quickly to below 140 degrees.

 

[General_Jah]

yes, but once I boiled it for 90 minutes this will kill off anything right?

 

[Yooper]

yes, but once I boiled it for 90 minutes this will kill off anything right?

Oh, yes. It would be killed by the boil. My concern is that lactobacillus could create a sour flavor if allowed to sit at under 140 for a length of time. I think it's killed at 160, so a mash out should take care of it, but since grain is loaded with lacto I'd probably bring it up to a higher temperature just to ensure that lacto doesn't have time to sour the wort.

I'm no expert on sour mashing but I know that it's done on purpose to create a tart beer. In this case, you'd want to avoid souring the wort of course.

 

[jerbrew]

Even if you brought your mash to 170 and held it there for a while, say ten minutes, I wouldn't say that all of the lacto would be beaten to a pulp. There may be enough bugs that make it to start spoiling your wort as yooper was talking about. Not to mention you probably don't sterilize your kettle or anything hot side that this wort going to touch (ball valves, MLT manifold, tubing) and these may introduce more nasties into the wort. And if you are going to take the time to bring it to a boil or close to it before you let it cool for the night then you're almost done. My advice would be not to risk it and just start your brew day a little earlier or try the no chill method if you want to cut some time. I think that might be a little "safer" for your beer.

Disclaimer: I'm no microbiologist so don't get it twisted this is just my thinking on it.

 

[Happywanderer]

You could always do what the Aussies do - and mash/boil and put in your fermenter to cool over night. Next day - add yeast.

Course - there are going to be many on here that will tell you doing this will invite all sorts of nasty bugs into your wort.

 

[Sadu]

I did a RIS where I doughed in at 11pm then went to bed. Put a heat belt around the kettle to stop too much temp loss.

Next morning did the boil. The mash had dropped a few degrees celcius, but I expected it would drop more.

I'm not sure if this is best practice and it will be a while before I know if the beer is any good, but I only tried this technique after reading posts from people saying it worked out fine. This was the difference between getting 2 beers brewed on brew day instead of one.

 

[dmtaylor]

Enzymes are killed off at 170 F and will prevent further conversion after that even at lower temps. Sourness from bacteria will definitely begin to occur after a very short time but not just 8-12 hours. Takes at least like 24-48 hours for Lacto and wild beasts to really start running with it. So if truly only leaving overnight as you say before boiling it will be fine. But do not wait for much longer than overnight or it will sour more significantly.

 

[TurnipGreen]

I had the power go out once on a Sunday night brew. My wort was just about to boil, maybe 190-200 degrees. By morning the kettle temp was 90 something if I remember correctly. I had to work the next day, so there it sat until after dinner the following day. Just shy of 24 hours.

Fermentation on that batch stopped at 1018 but that was probably because of mash temps, attenuation or something else (I don't have my notes in front of me)

Either way the wort did not get sour. At least not noticeably so.

 

[General_Jah]

Well thanks for all the feedback. I agree the best thing to do is knock it out in one day which I have always done but I have a new born on my hands, do decoction mashing for german lagers almost exclusively, so it's a long brew day

I just did a bock and after mash left it over night, picked it up the next day, and did a 90 minute boil. Will update the thread if I notice anything off with it.

 

[dmtaylor]

I'm sure it will turn out perfectly fine as long as it was mashed out.

 

[kh54s10]

I think that if you do a mashout, the enzymatic action would be stopped so your wort won't change much. The time involved adds risk of infection starting. That action would be stopped in the boil so those changes that might have started would be stopped. So if you had bad things happening, in that time, it might be bad. If not much happened in that time you are good to go. So it all depends.......

The risk is in the time spent just sitting around waiting for potential infections to take hold. And how bad that would be.