Question on Jamil's Trigo Oscuro + WLP300

[fimpster]

I just just picked up the ingredients for Jamil's Trigo Oscuro Dunkelweizen from Brewing Classic Styles. Has anyone brewed this? A Google search of these forums didn't turn up anything.

My question is on ferm temps. Jamil recommends WLP300 or 3068. I went with WLP300. The book says to ferment at 62°F. That is way lower than White Labs lists as optimal (68°-72°). It's a little closer but still lower than Wyeast lists for 3068 (64°-75°).

My question is if I should go with Jamil and JP's suggestion of 62° or go with White Labs suggestion of ≥68°?

 

[fimpster]

The recipe for any interested (5.5 gal into fermenter, 5 gal packaged)

6.9 lb wheat malt
3 lb Munich 10L
2 lb German pilsner
6 oz caramel 40L
6 oz special B
2 oz Carafa Special II

1 oz Hallertau (4%AA, 15.9 IBU)

WLP300 or 3068

Mash @ 152° for 60 min. Boil for 90 min.

 

[shtoive87]

I'd be inclined to go with Jamil's suggestion. I'll listen to his podcast on that style today and see what he says about it.

 

[madscientist451]

You're making a recipe from his book, the guy won multiple awards, written several books, now runs his own brewery, so yes, go with what he suggests the first time.
That shouldn't stop you from tweaking the recipe or process to suit your tastes, but if you follow the book you can get a baseline brew that you can change as you wish in the future.

 

[Darwin18]

I used WLP300 based on Jamil's Hefeweizen recipe as well. I was surprised that he recommended fermenting it at 62F but I followed his recipe. That one won a few 3rd place ribbons for me. The judges all liked it but it was missing the excessive (and IMO cloyingly disgusting) banana aromas and flavor that they expected. That was their only detraction, however. It had definite clove notes to it and general pleasant fruitiness. It turned out very nice and people who don't typically like hefe's drank this one up. It makes me wonder just how accurate American hefeweizens really are to the traditional examples.

 

[fimpster]

OK, so I will be following Jamil's suggestion of fermenting at 62°F. I found this BYO Style Profile: Dunkelweizen from 2010, and in the article Jamil writes "A restrained fermentation temperature of 62 °F (17 °C) creates a beautiful balance of fermentation flavors and helps keep some unpleasant flavors in check. It is very important to follow the recommended fermentation temperature for this beer."

This is my first ever brew with WLP300. I may try the recipe again in the future fermenting at 68° to see what difference it makes.

 

[daksin]

White lab's fermentation temps are pretty much always (except for belgians) higher than I think they ought to be, to make up for a low initial cell count and to make sure the beer takes off quickly, preventing sanitation issues. I would be inclined to take Jamil's advice every time.

 

[shtoive87]

In the podcast Jamil says he tried everything from 66 up to 74 and nothing worked like he wanted it to. He talked to one of his brewing mentors at the time who suggested fermenting at 62. When he did that, he got the banana and clove he was expecting and other more subtle ester flavors that he found very pleasant. I'd be interested in hearing about the differences in ferm temps if you get around to it.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[fimpster]

Awesome @shtoive87, thanks! So tomorrow's batch will ferm at 62° as Jamil recommends, but I love experimenting, so it's likely that I'll do the same recipe again at 68° or 70° when the temps warm up and I don't have to rely on a heater to get up that high. I'll try and remember to post back in this thread.

 

[VladOfTrub]

A rest at a temperature around 115F helps to produce clove/banana character. Mash pH needs to be on the high end in order for the rest to work. When the rest is performed, 830 produces clove/banana character when fermented at Ale temps, as will other types of yeast. The brewing method creates the circumstances, which creates the beer.
I'm not familiar with the advise from Zanipalmer Jamisheff on how to brew the beer. But, a rest at the higher end of the proteolysis range will improve the beer. An albumin rest would be a good idea, as well.
Maybe, take a look at Weyermann's site for their recipes. They are Germans and a German style of beer is being brewed. Brew the beer as Zani Jamisheff recommends. Then, brew it as Weyermann recommends and see which one is better, according to style and taste buds. If Weyermann doesn't have a recipe on their site, you can e-mail them and they will give you advise on how to brew the beer, leaning toward the German style.

 

[Culbetron]

Go with the 62f if you like balanced clove/bananna flavor. I've tried it and it's perfect!

Go with the higher temp if you like banannas a lot

 

[popquizkid]

Did a dunkelweizen last year and fermented wlp300 at 62 degrees. Highly recommended. It generated a ton of sulphur aromas, but those cleaned up real quick and the beer was fantastic.

 

[fimpster]

An update on this one:

Brewed it up this past weekend, pitched 2 vials of WLP300 since I didn't get time to make a starter. Pitched and ferming at 62°-63°. I added 8 oz. of rice hulls, but probably could have used a full lb. It was a super sticky mash and I had a hard time getting all the sweet wort out. I got most of it, but my preboil vol. was still 0.75 gal low even after two batch sparges. I boiled a little less vigorously than I normally do to still end up with 5.5 into the fermenter, but my efficiency was obviously lower than expected. I'm not too worried though, its my first ag wheat beer and it was a fun brew day.

The funniest part was when my wife came home from work on Monday, as she walked in the house she said "On no, I think the dog may be sick again. His farts smell like rotten eggs!" Haha sorry honey, that's just my dunkelweizen in the basement.

 

[zachattack]

Glad you went with the cooler ferment! I've done a bunch of hefeweizens as well as his weizenbock recipe, fermented them at 62 and they've turned out fantastic.

 

[popquizkid]

An update on this one:

Brewed it up this past weekend, pitched 2 vials of WLP300 since I didn't get time to make a starter. Pitched and ferming at 62°-63°. I added 8 oz. of rice hulls, but probably could have used a full lb. It was a super sticky mash and I had a hard time getting all the sweet wort out. I got most of it, but my preboil vol. was still 0.75 gal low even after two batch sparges. I boiled a little less vigorously than I normally do to still end up with 5.5 into the fermenter, but my efficiency was obviously lower than expected. I'm not too worried though, its my first ag wheat beer and it was a fun brew day.

The funniest part was when my wife came home from work on Monday, as she walked in the house she said "On no, I think the dog may be sick again. His farts smell like rotten eggs!" Haha sorry honey, that's just my dunkelweizen in the basement.

Haha. Told you it throw off slot of sulphur aromas. Never fear..you will like the final product. That yeast is great at that temp. You will get a lot more clove than banana, which is a good thing imho.