Question on boil ..

[Flyer]

How do you guys boil, a rolling heavy boil, or just kind of a simmer?

 

[ScottT]

Rolling boil, just below splashing out of the pot.

 

[El Pistolero]

Yes, you want a violent, rolling, manly kind of boil...no sissy simmer for your beer.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Mucho Gusto...

Tequila Si, agua no!

 

[Flyer]

Anytime I try and make a rolling boil like that, I get some nasty boil over stuff going on. Does it raise up, then go away or what?

 

[ScottT]

Yep, that's your hot break. It will foam up and then settle down in a few minutes. That's why you need a big pot.

 

[justbrewit]

my pot isn't that big, what i do is this. i start my boil and stand right by the pot(i brew on my stove) when i see it start to rise like its going to boil over, i move the pot about half off the burner, this cuts it back a bit, i do this about 5 to 10 times, after that, its hot break city!! then i can keep a good rolling boil like nobodys business!!

 

[Beermaker]

I use a small fan to blow on the wort when it gets high in the pot, A spray bottle also works great.

 

[rewster451]

I use an electric stove, which sucks, and I have a clear glass lid for my pot. When the foam rises up, I take the lid off, and it falls right back down. I don't know why it does this, maybe because it cools off really fast, but if I do it five or six times, it stops rising up.
I'm also the type of person who sits and stares at his beer while it boils. I'm a heavy smoker, but while it's boiling, I don't even think about going outside for a puff.

 

[Flyer]

This might very well be my problem ...

I have in the past let it come to a boil, foam up and back off on the burner until it will churn without foaming up.

 

[Flyer]

Should the hot break come before or after the 1st hops addition?

 

[El Pistolero]

Add the hops and start your timer after the hot break.

 

[rewster451]

This has actually been really informative for me. I think I've started the timer after the hot break, but because I didn't really know what that was, maybe I didn't. Actually, I'm pretty sure I put the hops in as soon as it started to roll. Then, it rose up, I took the lid off, it rose up, I took the lid off, etc. From now on I'll know to get a good hot break first. Thanks guys.

 

[Mindflux]

During the boil you are going to want to keep the lid OFF of your brew pot. You'll introduce DMS back into your beer, since it cant evaporate off.

Howtobrew on DMS:

Dimethyl Sulfides (DMS)/ Cooked Vegetable Flavors
Like diacetyl in ales, DMS is common in many light lagers and is considered to be part of the character. DMS is produced in the wort during the boil by the reduction of another compound, S-methyl-methionine (SMM), which is itself produced during malting. When a malt is roasted or toasted, the SMM is reduced beforehand and does not manifest as DMS in the wort, which explains why it is more prevalent in pale lagers. In other styles, DMS is a common off-flavor, and can be caused by poor brewing practices or bacterial infections.

DMS is continuously produced in the wort while it is hot and is usually removed by vaporization during the boil. If the wort is cooled slowly these compounds will not be removed from the wort and will dissolve back in. Thus it is important to not completely cover the brewpot during the boil or allow condensate to drip back into the pot from the lid. The wort should also be cooled quickly after the boil, either by immersing in an ice bath or using a wort chiller.

When caused by bacterial infection, DMS has a more rancid character, more liked cooked cabbage than corn. It is usually the result of poor sanitation. Repitching the yeast from an infected batch of beer will perpetuate the problem.

 

[homebrewer_99]

my pot isn't that big, what i do is this. i start my boil and stand right by the pot(i brew on my stove) when i see it start to rise like its going to boil over, i move the pot about half off the burner, this cuts it back a bit, i do this about 5 to 10 times, after that, its hot break city!! then i can keep a good rolling boil like nobodys business!!

That's basically what I do too.

 

[rewster451]

During the boil you are going to want to keep the lid OFF of your brew pot. You'll introduce DMS back into your beer, since it cant evaporate off.

Hmm... I have noticed some weird off-flavors, but nothing terrible. Maybe that's because my lid has a vent hole on it, so some drips back in, and some evaporates. Thanks for the info.

 

[MaineHopHead]

what are the effects of not having a rolling boil? My stove sucks at life, and I can't get a good rolling boil going with even 2-2.5 gallons of water on it.. I mean, it boils, just not a super rolling boil.

What will this do to a brew???

 

[Mindflux]

A boil is a boil dude, it's just a matter of evaporation rate at that point. Once my wort gets a bubblin I turn my burner down until it's just sort of 'rolling' the surface of the beer around.

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

A boil is a boil dude, it's just a matter of evaporation rate at that point. Once my wort gets a bubblin I turn my burner down until it's just sort of 'rolling' the surface of the beer around.

Not exactly. In terms of temperature a boil is a boil, but in terms of how the substances careen around in your pot smashing into each other which enhances break of the proteins as well as boiling off of volatiles during a fierce boil it's a big difference.

 

[Walker]

Not exactly. In terms of temperature a boil is a boil, but in terms of how the substances careen around in your pot smashing into each other which enhances break of the proteins as well as boiling off of volatiles during a fierce boil it's a big difference.

Agreed. But don't be disheartened if you can't achieve a violent boil due to the limitations of your cooking element.... you can probably agitate the wort as it slowly boils (stir it in random patterns) to get all the extra particle interaction that a vigorous, rolling boil provides.

-walker

 

[Mindflux]

Not exactly. In terms of temperature a boil is a boil, but in terms of how the substances careen around in your pot smashing into each other which enhances break of the proteins as well as boiling off of volatiles during a fierce boil it's a big difference.

This is *PERHAPS* relevent UP TO the hot break. For what it's worth the substances are 'careening' around because of the excited state of electrons when hot. 212*F is 212*F regardless of the agitation being applied by fire or stirring. All that the bubbles in a boil are is water vapors or air escaping from the solution. Yes they are 'stirring' your wort in a way, but the true purpose of the boil for wort is:

1) The coagulation of protiens (hot break) percipitating out. (Notice you never get a second hot break unless you add something with additional protiens (IE hops?))

2) Carmelization of the sugars and adjuncts

3) Binding hop protiens with other protiens in the wort

This can all be done with a gentle boil, as opposed to a raging boil. Can you POSSIBLY get better hop AA extraction with a vigorous boil? Maybe.

Shrugs.

To each their own..

 

[El Pistolero]

This can all be done with a gentle boil, as opposed to a raging boil. Can you POSSIBLY get better hop AA extraction with a vigorous boil? Maybe.

I understand what you're saying, but this link seems to have a bit of a differing opinion.

 

[Darth Konvel]

I understand what you're saying, but this link seems to have a bit of a differing opinion.

Interesting info.

For us homebrewers, it's probably safe to say that it's best to get as vigerous a boil as our equipment will allow, and not worry about whether or not John Doe's boil is more vigerous our own.

 

[voodoochild7]

I just use a thermometer and heat it to 212-215 it rolls but never boils over

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

i do a major rolling boil. better for hot/cold break and hop utilization. but, i have a 15.5 g brew kettle.

 

[Mindflux]

i do a major rolling boil. better for hot/cold break and hop utilization. but, i have a 15.5 g brew kettle.

Jesus, what sort of boiloff rate do you have? When I do a slow calm boil I still boil down from 7.5ish to 5.5 in an hour or a little more.

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

Jesus, what sort of boiloff rate do you have? When I do a slow calm boil I still boil down from 7.5ish to 5.5 in an hour or a little more.

according to Pro Mash, 15.56% boil off rate, 1.17 g/hr

 

[Mindflux]

according to Pro Mash, 15.56% boil off rate, 1.17 g/hr

I dont see how that's possible with the type of boil you are describing.. What do you collect for post-boil gallons?

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

I dont see how that's possible with the type of boil you are describing.. What do you collect for post-boil gallons?

approx. 7.5-7.7 g prior to my full, vigorous wort boil SG prior to begining boil is 1.019, boil for 90 min, 28.39 liters, for a final cooled wort of 5.75 g in the fermenter :cross:
all calculated on ProMash.

 

[Mindflux]

hrm... well hot dang

 

[DeRoux's Broux]

yea, i dunno? i plug in the numbers based on what i got, and that's what i got.

 

[ALPS]

I'm doing 2 gallon extract boils on the stove, and no doubt lid off is the best way. However, I can't get good rolling boil with the pot fully uncovered. Does half off count? This way it'll boil pretty good, but still evaporate well.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Try a fairly porus dish cloth over the kettle. It lets the nasty fumes escape and will increase your boil.

 

[Orfy]

Alps are you using Kits or plain extract and your own recipe with hops etc.

There is much debate on this but if you are using high end all extract kits they have already been boiled at the factory and further boiling will just degrade any aroma and flovour hops that are in there.

 

[ALPS]

Alps are you using Kits or plain extract and your own recipe with hops etc.

There is much debate on this but if you are using high end all extract kits they have already been boiled at the factory and further boiling will just degrade any aroma and flovour hops that are in there.

I've done both. Started out with kits, mostly from NB and Midwest, now moving into my own recipies. The extract is all the same (Muntons, Laaglander, Northern..) regardless of who puts the recipe together, so I guess I'm missing your point. If you mean hopped extract, that I do not use. My two brew buddies and I just ordered 8# of leaf hops. We received about 18#!! HopsDirect rules!

Maybe I'll try Denny's towel method next weekend...

 

[ScottT]

The extract is all the same (Muntons, Laaglander, Northern..) regardless of who puts the recipe together.

Brother, you need do do some research on fermentability of different malt extracts. Laaglander is not anywhere close to being the same as Muntons and will deliver to completely different beers if use alike in the same recipe.

 

[El Pistolero]

...fermentability of different malt extracts. Laaglander is not anywhere close to being the same as Muntons and will deliver to completely different beers if use alike in the same recipe.

You wouldn't happen to have that info on all the different extracts in a table, or spreadsheet, or webpage somewhere would you?

 

[ScottT]

You wouldn't happen to have that info on all the different extracts in a table, or spreadsheet, or webpage somewhere would you?

This is what I've got:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter3-5.html

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http://www.leeners.com/breweryx.html

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http://www.listermann.com/Forum/display_message.asp?mid=1958

Fermentability: Dry malt extract from the US and England tend to be more fermentable than those from continental Europe. English DME will provide less body and a dryer finish in the beer while European DME will give the beer more body and malt character.
These guidelines are only a starting point in formulation. It can take a few batches to fine tune the finished beer and it is not uncommon to wind up with a recipe that defies all three rules.

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http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/extract/pres.pdf


Sweeter or Drier Finish -- Extract-based worts can be more- or less-fermentable than their all - 25 grain counterparts. This is determined largely by the manufacturer and his processes. The table in Appendix I has some information on relative fermentability of various extract brands, and additional information can be found in Ray Daniels’ book Designing Great Beers . Keep your end product in mind when selecting extracts -- for example, if your beer is intended to be dry, don’t use Laaglander, but if you’re looking for a full-bodied, sweet finish, Laaglander might be a good choice.

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http://www.thehobbyarchive.com/new-3269960-45.html


Dry Extract Attenuation % Range

Muntons Average 70-75
Coopers
Laaglander Low 50-55
CD Carlson
Alexanders Low 48-58
John Bull Low
United Canadian High 85
Liquid Extract
Coopers Average 74

 

[El Pistolero]

Thanks Scott.