Q for Ritebrew customers, how good is their milling?

[MaxStout]

Speedee is great, if you are in their Midwest delivery region. Of note, they just expanded their delivery region to include large parts of Kansas and Missouri.
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It's been a while since I've ordered from Ritebrew, but from where I live (MN), it was usually very close between SpeeDee and UPS Ground. Each order would favor one or the other by a couple bucks. IIRC, the shipping times between the two were very close.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

It's been a while since I've ordered from Ritebrew, but from where I live (MN), it was usually very close between SpeeDee and UPS Ground. Each order would favor one or the other by a couple bucks. IIRC, the shipping times between the two were very close.

For those of us that order from RiteBrew and can choose between SpeeDee (the regional shipper) and UPS (the national shipper) ...

... SpeeDee seems to 'inspire' UPS to compete on delivery times and shipping cost (based on weight). Honest competition (no 'free shipping') seems to be good for all involved (me, the online store, the shippers).

At the moment, for me, RiteBrew plus either shipper is almost always "next business day". RiteBrew gets the order at the "start of business" on day 1 and I get the package on day 2. SpeeDee generally charges less for the same weight. SpeeDee (the regional shipper) is typically the less expensive shipping option. Also, there seems to be an "order weight point" where UPS is much more expensive than SpeeDee.

Again, for me, Farmhouse Brewing Supply and Home Brew Ohio (both HomeBrewTalk sponsors) have been consistent with "2nd business day" delivery - place order so it can be processed at the "start of a business day" and the order arrives 2 days later.

 

[ncbrewer]

This is some mixed grain that I got from Ritebrew last week - it's specialty grains for an extract batch. I thought some of the grains were still whole - I crushed it a little more by hand.
View attachment 873157

As long as the crush is reasonably consistent across a number of orders, the crushes above seem reasonable

I'm curious about this. It looks to me like my grain had uncrushed whole grains, which I always perceive as too coarse. Am I just being too picky about it?

 

[RM-MN]

I'm curious about this. It looks to me like my grain had uncrushed whole grains, which I always perceive as too coarse. Am I just being too picky about it?

No you are not being too picky. The sellers of milled grain have to try to satisfy a range of expectations, If they mill too fine, people get upset because they get a stuck mash or stuck sparge. If they mill too coarse, mash efficiency goes down and people are not real happy about that either. If you want grain to be milled perfectly you have to mill it yourself.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I'm curious about this. It looks to me like my grain had uncrushed whole grains, which I always perceive as too coarse. Am I just being too picky about it?

The original question was about crush for BIAB. My observations on the crush pictures were based on that context.

 

[ncbrewer]

Thanks to both for the responses - very interesting. Not at all what I expected. I always felt that any uncrushed whole grains were strictly verboten for any type of mash or steep.

 

[mac_1103]

I always felt that any uncrushed whole grains were strictly verboten for any type of mash or steep.

I don't see any uncrushed whole grains. Relatively intact husks are fine.

 

[ncbrewer]

I don't see any uncrushed whole grains. Relatively intact husks are fine.

Maybe that's why the mixed opinions. Most of those are actually whole grains - I felt them and pressed on them. It looks like the husks came off while being crushed. (There was no wheat on this order.)

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I always felt that any uncrushed whole grains were strictly verboten for any type of mash or steep.

When mashing, one needs a good crush. A small amount of whole kernels is OK as long as the crush is consistent across batches.

When steeping crystal / roasted malts, the guidelines may be more forgiving:

• Colors and flavors come from both the husks and the grain kernels.
• Gravity points (fermentable or otherwise) come from the inside of the kernels. Typically the steeped malts are less than 10% of the fermentables, so the impact of a 'less than average' crush may not be noticable in the glass.

When starting with BIAB, a consistent crush from a supplier (perhaps resulting in lower extraction efficiency) is predictable. And predictable is fun. When higher extraction efficiency is desired, a solid approach (as mentioned by others above) would be to get a mill (and perhaps double crush the grains).

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"exBEERiment": steeping crushed vs uncrushed crystal malt.
Steep 4 oz Simpsons DRC (110L) in 1 qt of warm (130F) water for 30 minutes.

• for the 1st steep, single crush the grains
• for the 2nd steep, do not crush the grains
• do both side-by-side
• Measure SG (refractometer) and observe color @ 10, 20, and 30 min.

I had 0.5# of DRC (nice red hues) that I bought about 2.5 years ago. A quick taste suggested it was still good, but I decided to use it here.

The result:

• I didn't taste the results of either steep.
• Color /2/
  • For the crushed grains steep, most of the color was extracted within 10 min
  • For the uncrushed grains steep, color lagged behind the crushed grains steep
  • at the end of the 30 min steep, the colors were similar; the uncrushed grain steep was a little lighter (perhaps due to no 'starch haze' blocking light?)
• SG /1/
  • For the crushed grains steep, I measured SG 15 after 10 min, and SG 20 after 30 min
  • For the uncrushed grains steep, I measured SG 4 after 10 min and SG 6 after 30 min
  • I used a refractometer for measurements and calibrated it using tap water.

My thought:

• If the primary goal of steeping is to extract colors and flavors, I wouldn't be too concerned about uncrushed kernels.

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/1/ 4.5 oz of malt steeped in 1 qt water. I used a large amount of malt in hopes that I might be able to measure some SG in the uncrushed grains steep.
/2/ in both steeps, the color retained red hues even though the estimated SRM was well beyond 30. It's plausable that the model doesn't estimate well in this situation.

 

[ncbrewer]

Nice exbeeriment. Thanks for posting.

I didn't taste the results of either steep.

This result totally throws me. Maybe because of the age of the malt, but your taste test seems to rule this out. Either way, it seems to confirm your hypothesis, that the crush didn't affect color or flavor.

On second thought, maybe I misread your statement. Did you mean you the steeping didn't add any flavor, or that you didn't check for flavor?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Did you mean you the steeping didn't add any flavor, or that you didn't check for flavor?

I didn't taste it. It was a highly concentrated steep as I wasn't confident that I'd get either color or measurable SG from the uncrushed malt steep. 4 oz in 0.25 gal water => 1# in 1 gal => 5# in 5 gal.

the crush didn't affect color or flavor.

With the highly concentrated steeps, the uncrushed malt steep was slightly lighter. It may be due to the fact that the grains were not crushed. It may be due to the crushed grains steep being a little hazy.

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If I were to do a second test (I'm not planning to do so), I would attempt to recreate a poor crush. With 4 oz of malt, crush 2 oz normally and crush 2 oz with a rolling pin. The other steep would a normal crush (maybe a double crush) with 4 oz malt. With some additional malt, The ASBC "Hot Steep" method (link) could be used for taste testing

 

[schuchdan]

One more pic from today's order