Programmers elbow ESB

[MooMooBrew]

Hi all,

Brewed programmers elbow esb out of the brewing classic styles book, but it tastes very thin and watery, with a bit of sour tinge, brew day went well, but had to switch out the hops with Fuggles. OG was fine, FG was a bit low but not too crazy. im stumped, any ideas?

MooMoo

 

[Homercidal]

What was the timeline for brewing? How old is the beer? How long since priming?

 

[bierhaus15]

What yeast did you use?

 

[OLDBREW]

what.. do we have to buy the book to help you? you need to supply information to receive help.

 

[ajf]

I have found the same thing when brewing English bitters if I mash thin.
I use Maris Otter as the base malt, and mash at 150F for 90 minutes using 1 qt water per lb grain.
Ray Daniels in Designing Great Beers recommends this, and I find that it makes a big difference.

-a.

 

[OLDBREW]

love Maris Otter.. I prefer T Fawcetts a little more then Baird's on what we get around here.

 

[seabass07]

And what was fermentation temperature?

 

[MooMooBrew]

WLP002 English ale yeast, 1 week in primary, 3 weeks in secondary (trub dump in conical), put it in the keezer and force carbed. been in there a week or so... so pretty fresh beer.

 

[MooMooBrew]

sorry for the lack of details, will supply more when i get home from work tonight

 

[mikeysab]

Just received the ingredients for this today

12 pounds belgian pils
1/2 pound c15
1/4 pound c120

Hope this isnt a shart recipe. I love esb and would be disappointed if it turns out like crapola. Dont take this the wrong way, but I hope you effed somethin up

 

[Beerrific]

Just received the ingredients for this today

12 pounds belgian pils
1/2 pound c15
1/4 pound c120

Hope this isnt a shart recipe. I love esb and would be disappointed if it turns out like crapola. Dont take this the wrong way, but I hope you effed somethin up

Belgian pils? That is not right.

OP, what is your carbonation level? Sometimes over carbonating English beers can result in a thin beer.

 

[mikeysab]

Youre absolutely right, its english pale ale. My delivery of belgian pils was for something else. Sorry all. The rest of the bill is right

 

[OLDBREW]

This is an ESB recipe from Jamil

Strong Bitter/English Pale Ale

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

04-C Bitter & English Pale Ale, Strong Bitter/English Pale Ale

Min OG: 1.046 Max OG: 1.065
Min IBU: 30 Max IBU: 65
Min Clr: 6 Max Clr: 14 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 6.50 Wort Size (Gal): 6.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 15.63
Anticipated OG: 1.063 Plato: 15.50
Anticipated SRM: 11.6
Anticipated IBU: 38.5
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 12.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 7.93 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.052 SG 12.84 Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
89.6 14.00 lbs. Pale Malt Halcyon Great Britain 1.038 3
3.2 0.50 lbs. Crystal 40L America 1.034 40
2.4 0.38 lbs. Crystal 120L America 1.033 120
1.6 0.25 lbs. Special Roast Malt America 1.033 40
3.2 0.50 lbs. Aromatic Malt Belgium 1.036 25

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.50 oz. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 5.90 31.4 60 min.
0.50 oz. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 5.90 3.5 20 min.
1.00 oz. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 5.90 3.5 1 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP002 English Ale


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs: 15.63
Water Qts: 20.31 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 5.08 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.30 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 154 Time: 60
Mash-out Rest Temp : 168 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 60


Total Mash Volume Gal: 6.33 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.

 

[mikeysab]

Wow, where is that from? Nothing li,e the book version.

 

[MooMooBrew]

Programmers Elbow ESB
Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale)
Type: All Grain Date: 7/9/2011
Batch Size (fermenter): 10.00 gal Brewer: Corey Wong
Boil Size: 12.57 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: MooMooBrewery
End of Boil Volume 11.44 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 10.00 gal Est Mash Efficiency 79.2 %
Fermentation: My Aging Profile Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
24 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 94.1 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 2 3.9 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3 2.0 %
4.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 29.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 5 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [35.00 ml] Yeast 6 -
Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.066 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.020 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.0 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.6 %
Bitterness: 29.0 IBUs Calories: 32.0 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 8.6 SRM
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body Total Grain Weight: 25 lbs 8.0 oz
Sparge Water: 8.46 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.20
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 31.88 qt of water at 167.6 F 152.0 F 60 min
Sparge Step: Fly sparge with 8.46 gal water at 168.0 F
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Keg Volumes of CO2: 2.4
Pressure/Weight: 13.72 PSI Carbonation Used: Keg with 13.72 PSI
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 45.0 F Age for: 28.00 days
Fermentation: My Aging Profile Storage Temperature: 52.0 F
Notes

Created with BeerSmith

 

[ajf]

There are 3 things I notice about your BeerSmith report:
1. The measured OG is reported as 1.010. If that is true, then that would be the explanation for a watery beer. Were the grains crushed? Judging by the measured FG, it looks as though your OG could have been very low
2. I see you are using WLP002. Did you make a starter? One vial of 002 will not be up to fermenting 10 gallons without a starter.
3. You force carbonated an English style bitter to 2.4 volumes CO2? About 1.0 volumes is typical for the draught versions (but bottled versions usually go a bit higher).

-a.

 

[rockfish42]

There is an archive of recipes from the Jamil Show before the book was announced at
http://beerdujour.com/JamilsBrewingNetworkRecipes.htm
For instance the maerzen/oktoberfest show's recipe is different than the book version.
Let me second that it's probably overcarbed and or served too cold. You really want something at least less than 2 volumes of CO2 and preferably served at ~50F

 

[MooMooBrew]

sorry the data didnt update,
Measured OG 1.050, FG 1.015
2L starter
CO2 is set to 12psi in the keezer.

 

[ajf]

That looks better. Gravities look OK, 2L starter should be fine, but 12 PSI in the keezer is way too much for me, and the temperature should be 55F - 60F. I keep mine at 4 PSI in the basement which is the right temperature for most of the year, but it gets a bit warmer in the summer. However, if you want a cold fizzy bitter, that's up to you. I just like them warm and flat (by American standards).
I'd definitely try a thick mash for the next one.

Good luck

-a.

 

[MooMooBrew]

Perhaps ill just stick to styles i know/like better.

 

[MooMooBrew]

so, ive been hesitating about this for a while, mostly for feeling stupid and panicing... the ESB seems to have taken a turn to the better, perhaps it needed some time to settle, or it was ultra green, but SWMBO, who i made it for, cant stop drinking it.

Any ideas on what would cause such a dramatic change in flavor/taste profile?

 

[rockfish42]

It was probably just green beer, a 2L starter for 10 gallons is a bit small.

 

[HOPCousin]

how does it taste now? I'm about to brew with that yeast, but with MO, Carared 20L, Caramel 120L, Victory.

 

[MooMooBrew]

It was probably just green beer, a 2L starter for 10 gallons is a bit small.

Most batches i make, high gravity notwithstanding, use a 2l starter (beersmith reccomended, Yeast book verified)

how does it taste now? I'm about to brew with that yeast, but with MO, Carared 20L, Caramel 120L, Victory.

It tastes pretty good, though I've got it quite cold/carbed for the style, don't have the facilities to keep it separated from the rest of the beers 'got.

overall, i think it was just very young beer....

 

[rockfish42]

2 liters would be fine for a 5-6 gallon batch, for a larger batch you'd need to double that amount.

 

[MooMooBrew]

2 liters would be fine for a 5-6 gallon batch, for a larger batch you'd need to double that amount.

Hm... ive not noticed a difference in my fermentation times or flavor profile between using a 4l starter and a 2l starter, so to save resources, i just go for a 2l starter on the stirrplate, dump the whole thing in the conical and in 6-8 hours im rockin and rolling.

 

[rockfish42]

NM, with a stirplate you're much closer with just a 2 liter starter.