Problem. everything turns sour\vinegar

[MaxStout]

Is there any chance this isn't an infection? Your sanitation sounds good - the only symptom seems to be a terrible smell. Its hard for that much infection to happen that fast. I don't think its possibly vinegar - that really takes time.

Some yeasts smell horrible while they're doing their thing. Montrachet comes to mind. T-58 has also given me that "whats the matter?" sensation (and later produced a great batch!) Is there any chance you're just getting hydrogen sulfide during fermentation?

I've made several batches of Edwort's Apfelwein with Montrachet, and the first batch gave off a bad case of "rhino farts." Stressed yeast can give off some terrible odors. The next batch I added some yeast nutrient and yeast energizer to the must before pitching. Problem averted. Those smelled like fermenting apples, not a sewer.

 

[DoctorCAD]

Im not sure about your suggestion. The sugar isn't the carrier Iv used different varieties and get that same result. I'll try NOT boiling though since with the mango wine I did boil BUT I remember that I did cool it down in some cold water to pitch the yeast instead of waiting an eternity. I'll try to not boil. Is it possible for something to infect my wine even if it got boiled ??? shouldn't it kill the bacterias ?? Im so clueless

My suggestion is to eliminate EVERYTHING except pure juice (or concentrate made with cool water) and yeast. if that goes bad, your environment or techniques are the problem. If it goes well, you need to add one thing at a time until it goes bad again. Trying to eliminate as much as possible from the equation so you can narrow it down.

 

[Verratti]

My suggestion is to eliminate EVERYTHING except pure juice (or concentrate made with cool water) and yeast. if that goes bad, your environment or techniques are the problem. If it goes well, you need to add one thing at a time until it goes bad again. Trying to eliminate as much as possible from the equation so you can narrow it down.

Well my mango wine didn't get the infection and it only had frozen concentrate, sugar and yeast. what I did different then the others though is cool down the must (since I'd always boil it first). If it didn't get an infection with that then I'll go with that simple combo Just started a batch yesterday with only juice water and yeast (didn't boil this time) but I used my fermenter. If this gets infected i'll try juice water and yeast into my glass carboy. If that works i'll blame the boiling must and come to the conclusion that my fermenter is infected.

 

[Verratti]

ok well 24 hrs in and theres already no doubt its contaminated. I'm starting a new batch this time in my carboy. Im just gonna suppose the primary fermenter is contaminated and will ditch it.

I'll post back soon to say if it worked or not.

 

[EJay]

Would it kill you to let it run a week? There's no bug as far as I know that contaminates that quick. I still think you've just got some smelly yeast. Apfelwein smells like death while its fermenting. I think you're chucking a lot of what may be good wine going through puberty

 

[oogaboogachiefwalkingdeer]

Got pics?? I doubt it is bad either. I clean things best I can but sometimes skip some things. I might just rinse out the sample holder for the hydrometer or maybe just rinse a funnel or some spoons might be a measuring cup or even a cheese cloth. Never had an infection ever. Some day it will bite me but I can't see how your fermenter could be contaminated after all you run it thru. Like Ejay say's give it some time it may surprise you.

 

[BrewinBromanite]

I'm starting to think suggestions are futile...


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[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

Patience... of course wine after a day or so is horrible. I suggest strongly that you a)Don't boil your must, it's gonna destroy flavors and give you all kinds of issues, b) DON"T EVER USE BLEACH ON ANYTHING THAT YOU"RE USING TO MAKE WINE, IT'S A PRECURSOR TO TCA, c) inoculate the must with your yeast, put the carboy in a place where it can sit about a month without it getting in your way and COMPLETELY FORGET ABOUT IT. Try worrying about it in a month or so, I bet you it'll be tasting fine, albeit very young. Also EC-1118 throws SO2 like crazy because it's so violent, and is notorious for doing so, so much that it's in the tech sheets for the yeast specs themselves.. We need more relevant information such as initial Brix/S.G. etc alongside such practices like rehydrating your yeast with go-ferm or any additions of nutrients you might be adding to help feed your yeast in the presence of a low-nitrogen environment. Even in commercial scale winemaking while we're doing punch downs if there's any hint of H2S we usually do a feed so long as the sugar is high enough still. Honestly, winemaking is something to be enjoyed and not the cause of great and terrible anxiety. Let us know more detailed information such as starting gravity of your (un-boiled!) must, and also pH if you're able to measure it, even the cheap test strips can be helpful. Also, take my advice to set it and forget it for long periods of time to heart. Even the most sundry bottle of wine (with few expections) typically spend 12-18 MONTHS aging before consumption.

-Cheers

 

[Verratti]

Would it kill you to let it run a week? There's no bug as far as I know that contaminates that quick. I still think you've just got some smelly yeast. Apfelwein smells like death while its fermenting. I think you're chucking a lot of what may be good wine going through puberty

Been there done that. It gets more and more terrible for about 2 weeks before keeping its hard vomit sour smell for good.

 

[Verratti]

I'm starting to think suggestions are futile...


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and why's that ? of corse some suggestions I've tried already. I've been struggling with this for a year now and tried a lot of things. But I have a pad where I write the ideas that I could try. If your one of which thinks it isn't ruined and only needs time, then yes its fulie. I've tried that and it doesn't work. It stays and gets a little worst before it becomes unbreathable forever. Its a total lost.

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

Starting Brix/S.G. and pH? Not even those numbers? They can also be a good indicator of why you're having this problem. Short of having a microscope and plates in order to actually count gram-positive bacteria, you don't know if it's infected or not, and your intuition won't account for much. I also suggest using a different yeast like K1V-1116, it's the least fussy yeast I know of, has little to no SO2 problems, and will ferment to dryness.

 

[EJay]

and why's that ? of corse some suggestions I've tried already. I've been struggling with this for a year now and tried a lot of things. But I have a pad where I write the ideas that I could try. If your one of which thinks it isn't ruined and only needs time, then yes its fulie. I've tried that and it doesn't work. It stays and gets a little worst before it becomes unbreathable forever. Its a total lost.

RachmaelBenApplebaum's advice about "forget about it for a month" is good. Every message in this threads sounds like you've dumped each batch after a few days.

If I cared any more, I would prepare a batch, and not even concern myself with sanitation. Split it into two vessels. Pitch yeast into ONE of them. Give it a few days. I bet the one with yeast you'll think is infected because it will produce those smells.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Paps]

http://community.knitpicks.com/group/learntoknit/forum

 

[RegarRenill]

A) ditch the primary.
B) stop using bleach. Use oxyclean (scent free) before using bleach.
C) get and use some nutrient and energizer.
D) stop boiling your must.
E) try brewing at another location, ie parents house, SO's place, a friend's house, etc. You may have a high mold spore count in your home.

If these and others suggestions don't work, I'm sorry: apparently Dionysus has decided you shouldn't make wine but seriously, good luck!!

 

[Verratti]

RachmaelBenApplebaum's advice about "forget about it for a month" is good. Every message in this threads sounds like you've dumped each batch after a few days.

If I cared any more, I would prepare a batch, and not even concern myself with sanitation. Split it into two vessels. Pitch yeast into ONE of them. Give it a few days. I bet the one with yeast you'll think is infected because it will produce those smells.

Best of luck to you.

already answered you post #39

 

[Verratti]

Starting Brix/S.G. and pH? Not even those numbers? They can also be a good indicator of why you're having this problem. Short of having a microscope and plates in order to actually count gram-positive bacteria, you don't know if it's infected or not, and your intuition won't account for much. I also suggest using a different yeast like K1V-1116, it's the least fussy yeast I know of, has little to no SO2 problems, and will ferment to dryness.

S.G 1.095. thats pretty much always what I aim for. I don't take pH cause I don't feel the need to. and ironically I do have a microscope (16x100) so I get at 1600 which lets me see very well the bacterias running around. I did the test the primary today but I dunno what the yeast is supposed to look like in comparison. I'll have to try this before adding yeast next time lol.

 

[Verratti]

A) ditch the primary.
B) stop using bleach. Use oxyclean (scent free) before using bleach.
C) get and use some nutrient and energizer.
D) stop boiling your must.
E) try brewing at another location, ie parents house, SO's place, a friend's house, etc. You may have a high mold spore count in your home.

If these and others suggestions don't work, I'm sorry: apparently Dionysus has decided you shouldn't make wine but seriously, good luck!!

A) yes
B) yeah I did that for my secondary. I won't use bleach anymore I swear
C) I use that almost all the time. but this last to batch I don't use in case the nutrients were contaminated.
D) yep stopped that after yooper told me ( see people I listen )
E) Thats an idea. Id be surprised though since It's very solid and clean here. But hey so much things we don't see.

Dionysus probably hates me like crazy lol he sure doesn't hide it very well. Maybe I should pray and ask for good harvest

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

A) yes
B) yeah I did that for my secondary. I won't use bleach anymore I swear
C) I use that almost all the time. but this last to batch I don't use in case the nutrients were contaminated.
D) yep stopped that after yooper told me ( see people I listen )
E) Thats an idea. Id be surprised though since It's very solid and clean here. But hey so much things we don't see.

Dionysus probably hates me like crazy lol he sure doesn't hide it very well. Maybe I should pray and ask for good harvest

All good suggestions! brix is solid so nothing wrong there, the only reason I would suggest pH is that a really low pH could be causing yeast stress. Glad you have a microscope! yeast just look like little balls, I forget what kind of stain to use that the yeast metabolize so you can see it more clearly, but it wouldn't be a horrible idea. The only other thing I can think of is your water source, which can be a bad thing if there's too much chlorine etc.

 

[Verratti]

yes the bacterias looked like little ball's. My must in the primary doesn't seem to be getting worst like the other ones. Maybe boiling everything then waiting 24 hrs to pitch was a bad idea. I'm not sure if I should toss the must from the primary or let it go all the way ?? Water source could be, but I tried buying some good water from the store and it didn't work out. My mango wine uses the same water and its smelling good. As for stain, I only have iodine and mercurochrome. Could always try them both.

 

[Honda88]

have you been using yeast nutrient?

 

[Verratti]

have you been using yeast nutrient?

I usually do, but decided to skip it on my last batch to see if the nutrients weren't contaminated.

 

[Yooper]

Maybe boiling everything then waiting 24 hrs to pitch was a bad idea.

Yes, that would be a very bad idea. Just like you don't make dinner, and then let it sit at warm temperatures for a day before eating it, you don't want to do that with the must either.

Chill the must, or don't boil it at all (my preference), but either way 24 hours at warm temperatures without yeast added would favor the growth of microbes.

 

[Verratti]

Yes, that would be a very bad idea. Just like you don't make dinner, and then let it sit at warm temperatures for a day before eating it, you don't want to do that with the must either.

Chill the must, or don't boil it at all (my preference), but either way 24 hours at warm temperatures without yeast added would favor the growth of microbes.

yeah I didn't boil it for the batch I started 4 days ago in my primary. Then I dunno if Im just paranoid, but I kinda thought I smelled the infection coming 2 days ago and decided to start a new batch in my glass carboy. Now after 4 days I realize I'm not sure it was infected in the primary since it doesn't seem to be getting bad. Smells bad but that normal in the first week of fermentation so Im like, do I keep and let it be, or do I dump it since it was in my maybe infected primary fermenter.

 

[BrewinBromanite]

I'd suggest letting them both ride out for at least a month. Maybe the no boiling of the must and extended cooling is the major culprit, so no harm in letting the new batches play out.


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[Verratti]

I'd suggest letting them both ride out for at least a month. Maybe the no boiling of the must and extended cooling is the major culprit, so no harm in letting the new batches play out.


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This time I had my must a little cool. Probably room temp. and didn't wait to pitch. It took a little time for the yeast to do its thing. I have it fermenting in a room at 64F. How long should it stay in the primary at that temp. with an S.G of 1,095 and EC-1118 yeast ?

 

[oogaboogachiefwalkingdeer]

30 to 60 days wouldn't hurt anything.

 

[Verratti]

30 to 60 days wouldn't hurt anything.

heu??? thats alittle to much in a primary bucket. I was wondering more between 5-10 days. wouldn't THAT much time in primary over oxidize the wine ? you can't top up a primary really.

 

[oogaboogachiefwalkingdeer]

Thought you said it was in a glass carboy.... I let a lot of it sit in a carboy 30 to 60 days. We actually consume ours instead of dumping it down the drain. You can do yours any old way you wish. You have got excellent advise from some very good wine makers and can use it or not.

 

[Verratti]

oh ok its because I have made some in a carboy, and some in a primary bucket. I was referring to the one in primary. Im not sure at 64f how long it should stay in primary.

 

[oogaboogachiefwalkingdeer]

If I make a wine with fresh fruit I use the bucket open topped and covered with a towel. I stir it two or three times a day to punch down the fruit. This is a sign of active fermenting. I usually let it go 5 to 7 days or until gravity is 1020 or so then rack to a carboy and airlock it.

If I use straight juice I skip the bucket and use the carboy. I airlock right from the get go and leave a little extra head space for the active ferment period of 2 to 7 days give or take. Then top up put it a closet and forget it for 30 to 60 days. Then rack it to clean carboy and let clear. Add c tabs every other rack till no lees fall for at least 60 days. Then you can bottle or back sweeten.

Is the wine you have going right now with the 1118 a juice wine or are you using fruit?