Priming Calculator

[JeffoC6]

I just came across this one (due to my researching some of my issues with over-carbonation): http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/carbonation.html

Interestingly enough, this priming calculator has you enter the temperature of your wort when bottling. I was under the assumption, after reading it in several areas, that you were supposed to use the highest temperature the wort achieved during fermentation.

I have taken some of my prior recipes and used this calculator, entering in the highest temperature that the wort achieved during primary fermentation, vs entering the temperature at 45* (due to bottling within a half hour of taking the primary out of the fridge after cold crashing). I've found that when you enter in the higher temp, they have you add MORE priming sugar. When you enter the lower temp, they have you add LESS priming sugar.

I think I just found the reason as to why most of my brews have some type of carbonic acid bite to them...

Can someone confirm that they use the temperature of the wort at bottling vs the highest temperature reached during primary fermentation?

Since I only do 1 gallon batches, I'm wondering if the difference in priming sugar amounts is effecting me more due to the fact that I have less room for error (1 gallon) than most 5 gallon brewers.

Thoughts?

 

[MalFet]

Neither number's perfect, unfortunately. I always got better results by using the peak temperature. If you're cold crashing, you don't want to use the bottling temperature.

 

[JeffoC6]

Neither number's perfect, unfortunately. I always got better results by using the peak temperature. If you're cold crashing, you don't want to use the bottling temperature.

While I thank you for your input, this is starting to get me discouraged. I'm obviously having a problem with overcarbonation and carbonic acid tastes, so I figured this might be the reason why. But if you're saying that indeed you SHOULD be using the peak temperature, then why am I having problems? I can see no other answer than the fact that I should be using the cold crash temp.

 

[MalFet]

While I thank you for your input, this is starting to get me discouraged. I'm obviously having a problem with overcarbonation and carbonic acid tastes, so I figured this might be the reason why. But if you're saying that indeed you SHOULD be using the peak temperature, then why am I having problems? I can see no other answer than the fact that I should be using the cold crash temp.

I certainly didn't mean to suggest that the peak temperatures will generate the "right" numbers. That was my point: there aren't right numbers. Every system is different; there's just no getting around that fact, and any kind of calculator will just be playing for averages. If you are consistently getting too much carbonation, you need to scale back the amount of priming sugar you are adding.

 

[JeffoC6]

I certainly didn't mean to suggest that the peak temperatures will generate the "right" numbers. That was my point: there aren't right numbers. Every system is different; there's just no getting around that fact, and any kind of calculator will just be playing for averages. If you are consistently getting too much carbonation, you need to scale back the amount of priming sugar you are adding.

Thanks. I didn't mean to make it seem like I was annoyed with your response. Just tired of overcarbonated beers, and even when they're not overcarbonated, they have a distinct metallicy/twanginess to them, which I'm assuming, is due to overcarbonation.

 

[MalFet]

Thanks. I didn't mean to make it seem like I was annoyed with your response. Just tired of overcarbonated beers, and even when they're not overcarbonated, they have a distinct metallicy/twanginess to them, which I'm assuming, is due to overcarbonation.

Nope, didn't think you were annoyed with my answer

If a certain amount of priming sugar is causing too much carbonation, cut back. If you're still getting too much carbonation, then it is time to consider other possible causes.

 

[JeffoC6]

Nope, didn't think you were annoyed with my answer

If a certain amount of priming sugar is causing too much carbonation, cut back. If you're still getting too much carbonation, then it is time to consider other possible causes.

Thanks, Big John Stud

 

[lostinthe_trees]

Disclaimer: I've only bottled a five batches, so the following statements are not based on experience, but on science!

CO2 bubbles out when the solution is saturated, but some remains dissolved (as CO2 and carbonic acid). The solubility of a gas in liquid generally decreases with increasing temperature.

The temperature input on the priming calculator is likely related to the amount of CO2 remaining dissolved in the beer after fermentation and should, under normal circumstances, be the temperature at fermenting (or bottling if bottling/fermenting temperatures are similar). If you ferment at a higher temperature less CO2 will remain dissolved and you will have to add more sugar. At a lower temperature the opposite is true (more CO2 dissolved, less sugar needed).

Cold crashing temps should probably not be used in the calculator. Here's why: Fermentation had likely finished by the time you cold crashed. Hence, there was a set amount of CO2 dissolved in the beer from fermentation. The colder temps in the fridge would increase the solubility of CO2, but since there is no more CO2 being produced, the total amount in solution would remain the same. So, entering the cold crash temperature into the calculator would result in adding too little sugar, because the calculator (which cannot reason) thinks that you have more CO2 present in the cold crashed beer than you really do.

 

[JeffoC6]

So in one thread, I'm being told that I need to cut back on my priming sugar amounts due to overcarbonation problems I'm having, and carbonic bite.

In another thread (this thread), I'm being told to use the same calculations that I've been using, which have resulted in overcarbonation problems, and carbonic bite.

Sigh.

 

[brewit2it]

So in one thread, I'm being told that I need to cut back on my priming sugar amounts due to overcarbonation problems I'm having, and carbonic bite.

In another thread (this thread), I'm being told to use the same calculations that I've been using, which have resulted in overcarbonation problems, and carbonic bite.

Sigh.

Bro, you're overthinking it. If you beers are over-carbonated then use less priming sugar, not because the calculator said add X amount if your beer is Y temp. Add less because experience and common sense tells you that if they are over-carbed with the amount you have been adding, the only way to get them less carbed is to add less.

 

[JeffoC6]

Bro, you're overthinking it. If you beers are over-carbonated then use less priming sugar, not because the calculator said add X amount if your beer is Y temp. Add less because experience and common sense tells you that if they are over-carbed with the amount you have been adding, the only way to get them less carbed is to add less.

Fair point, but how much less? If I used 0.8 oz in my last batch (1 gallon), do I use .5 oz? .3 oz?

 

[brewit2it]

Fair point, but how much less? If I used 0.8 oz in my last batch (1 gallon), do I use .5 oz? .3 oz?

Start with 25% less and take it from there.

 

[duboman]

Dude, you are now running around over thinking the same thing in a new thread,

As I stated in the other thread and as this person has stated here you are over carbonating your beer regardless of what these calculators are telling you

Some of this you have to take upon yourself to experiment with and figure out. As I suggested in the last thread if the .8oz was too much than cut back Half and start from there, if it's still too much then cut back more or if it's not enough than add a bit.

Some people brew the same beer 15 times with minor tweaks along the way to get it right. If you you are expecting to brew the perfect beer in the first attempt, sorry but you picked the wrong hobby.

I know a commercial brewer that experiments with his recipes 10-20 times before he puts it out there for public consumption. Brewing beer is not an exact science regardless of what a calculator tells tells you. These things are designed to work under ideal controlled conditions and a homebrewer's set up is not an ideal controlled set up

 

[YeastHerder]

My impression is that the calculators are quite good for getting you in the right ballpark, but they won't perfectly predict exactly what is going on in your setup.

Try cutting the amount of priming sugar by 25%, or if you think it is really way over the mark, cut by as much as 50% and just see how it turns out and then tweak further from there. On top of this, include the stirring to ensure even distribution of the sugar and eventually you'll get the CO2 where you want it.