Primary Vs. Secondary

[arbadarchi]

What makes a primary different than a secondary so that you would need to free one up? I assumed they were the same type of container?

 

[Yooper]

What makes a primary different than a secondary so that you would need to free one up? I assumed they were the same type of container?

Primary:


Secondary:

 

[Puddlethumper]

What makes a primary different than a secondary so that you would need to free one up? I assumed they were the same type of container?

I love Yooper's pix!

Primary fermenters are usually around 6 1/2 gal. for a 5 gal. batch. That usually leaves enough headspace for the fermentation process. (See Yooper's pic of the the 6.5 gal. bucket). Sometimes it doesn't leave enough space and the krausen blows through the airlock and you have a bunch of stuff all over the place. This can be alleviated with a blow-off tube. Lots of stuff posted here and elsewhere on how to handle an eruptive fermentation.

A secondary vessel (I do not call it a secondary fermenter on purpose) is usually just exactly 5 gal. (see Yooper's pic of the 5 gal. carboy). Once the sometimes violent initial fermentation is completed everything settles down a whole lot. Now you no longer need be concerned about stuff blowing out of the top of your vessel. What you do need to be concerned about is O2 absorption into your beer. So you want a vessel you can fill all the way into the neck to reduce surface area exposed to that O2.

Hope this makes sense.

Cheers!

 

[arbadarchi]

I love Yooper's pix!

Primary fermenters are usually around 6 1/2 gal. for a 5 gal. batch. That usually leaves enough headspace for the fermentation process. (See Yooper's pic of the the 6.5 gal. bucket). Sometimes it doesn't leave enough space and the krausen blows through the airlock and you have a bunch of stuff all over the place. This can be alleviated with a blow-off tube. Lots of stuff posted here and elsewhere on how to handle an eruptive fermentation.

A secondary vessel (I do not call it a secondary fermenter on purpose) is usually just exactly 5 gal. (see Yooper's pic of the 5 gal. carboy). Once the sometimes violent initial fermentation is completed everything settles down a whole lot. Now you no longer need be concerned about stuff blowing out of the top of your vessel. What you do need to be concerned about is O2 absorption into your beer. So you want a vessel you can fill all the way into the neck to reduce surface area exposed to that O2.

Hope this makes sense.

Cheers!

Thanks! Yes that makes total sense. I didn't realize how serious this O2 thing is...

 

[prrriiide]

Visual clarity.

Disagree...

A good secondary will let the beer mellow and "get happy." Case on point...RIS. You want that RIS to have a good long (9 months+ secondary for all of the flavors to develop and meld into a tasty, unctuous, mouth-pleasing beauty. That has to happen in secondary. You can't leave it on the yeast long enough for that to happen. Same with Baltic Porter. I have had much better results with using a secondary for my IIPA.

What I have found - in MY process - is that most of my beers benefit from flavor development in a secondary, even session IPAs.

As long as you exercise good sanitation, don't splash it around, and don't get impatient, you shouldn't have any problems with a secondary.

 

[kombat]

At the homebrew level, "Primary" and "Secondary" vessels are largely interchangeable, although most folks typically use a "Primary" vessel with more generous headspace to allow for the krausen during active fermentation. After racking to secondary, it's more important to minimize headspace in order to reduce the risk of oxidation. Practically, that means for a 5 gallon batch, using a 6.5 gallon carboy for primary, and a 5 gallon carboy for secondary.

That said, the big guys do it because their primary fermenters are more complex and expensive (double-jacketed, glycol wrapped, with racking arm, yeast dump port, etc.), whereas their "secondary" (they call them "Brite" tanks) vessels are simple tanks, often situated in a cold room, to allow the beer to condition a little and for the yeast to drop out, clarifying the beer. These tanks are considerably cheaper than their primary fermenters, thus the motivation for them to move the beer to secondary ASAP, freeing up the expensive cylindroconical fermenters for the next batch.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Thanks! Yes that makes total sense. I didn't realize how serious this O2 thing is...

If you're only holding the beer for 2-3 weeks the 02 absorption will be minimal. Concern over O2 absorption isn't reason enough to move your beer to secondary on normal brews. Although many people do move beer to secondary vessels for other reasons. But the longer the beer sits in the vessel the more O2 it will absorb. At some point your beer may end up suffering from premature staling - a sort of "cardboard" taste. I start getting concerned about premature staling at about 3 weeks so I rarely hold a beer in primary longer than 2 weeks. YMMV

 

[Yooper]

Disagree...

A good secondary will let the beer mellow and "get happy." Case on point...RIS. You want that RIS to have a good long (9 months+ secondary for all of the flavors to develop and meld into a tasty, unctuous, mouth-pleasing beauty. That has to happen in secondary. You can't leave it on the yeast long enough for that to happen. Same with Baltic Porter. I have had much better results with using a secondary for my IIPA.

What I have found - in MY process - is that most of my beers benefit from flavor development in a secondary, even session IPAs.

As long as you exercise good sanitation, don't splash it around, and don't get impatient, you shouldn't have any problems with a secondary.

But an RIS (or any beer) can age beautifully in a bottle. A vessel to do it in bulk isn't a necessity- bottling and letting it age works just as well.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

But an RIS (or any beer) can age beautifully in a bottle.

Yes, I am told that they can. Unfortunately, I find that bottled beers rarely get the opportunity.

 

[stratslinger]

Yoop took the words right out of my mouth...

The beers cited above by prrriiide, given an appropriate yeast pitch and controlled fermentation temperature, will ferment out just fine and don't necessarily require bulk aging for months in a secondary. Do they often benefit from getting a little age in the bottle? Quite often, yes they do.

Look at any commercial RIS you buy - those commercial breweries, with very few exceptions, aren't keeping their beers around in a bright tank somewhere for 9+ months. They're fermenting them, letting them clarify, then packaging and shipping. And what you buy in the shop is perfectly drinkable and often quite delicious (well, depending on the beer and brewery, of course!). But many of them can benefit significantly from sitting in your cellar for a while before they get cracked open, while others don't seem to change at all. Probably depends more on the recipe, perhaps how many adjuncts were at play, than anything else, if I had to guess.

 

[jaydlaw]

now that i have a secondary, i use it. I like to get the beer off of the trub (either to save yeast or cause i want to minimize the amount that potentiall can end up in the bottle/ keg. But unless you are dryhopping or adding fruit to the beer or something, there isn't a need to. there's always a chance of infection, but if you practice good sanitation, i wouldn't worry about it.