Price gouging ailse 5, Price gouging ailse 5

[Bobby_M]

The free shipping pricing model is so ubiquitous that it's unreasonable for anyone to expect it to be spelled out. If you see "free shipping", you should already know that nothing is free and it's built in to the item price. Like I said, it feels slimy to me as a business owner. Calling it a scam or that it should be illegal is a very fringe opinion.

A "fraud" is telling the customer they are buying one thing and delivering another ( or not delivering anything at all). These are companies offering items at a listed price and you can either buy or close the browser window. There is no fraud.

 

[MaxStout]

You pay for shipping--either directly or baked in to the pricing. No such thing as "free shipping," it comes from somewhere--you.

Do this next time you shop for supplies:
Open several browser tabs. Go to various suppliers and populate the carts of each supplier with the items you need. Go to checkout in each. Compare total cost. You might be surprised at which one is the best overall. Sometimes the low price/paid shipping vendor is cheapest. Sometimes it's the one that's opposite. YMMV.

 

[huckdavidson]

The free shipping pricing model is so ubiquitous that it's unreasonable for anyone to expect it to be spelled out. If you see "free shipping", you should already know that nothing is free and it's built in to the item price. Like I said, it feels slimy to me as a business owner. Calling it a scam or that it should be illegal is a very fringe opinion.

A "fraud" is telling the customer they are buying one thing and delivering another ( or not delivering anything at all). These are companies offering items at a listed price and you can either buy or close the browser window. There is no fraud.

Keeping the shipping markups on items when the minimum free shipping amount is not met, is fraudulent IMO, maybe not according to law, however. Why should I be forced to pay free shipping markups when my order doesn't qualify for free shipping?

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

@huckdavidson nobody is "forcing" you to order brewing ingredients

But that said, it is a little maddening that if I wanted to purchase just a pack of US-05 (jebuz, for $6.49 ?!?), I'd have to further pay another $20 for UPS-GROUND to drop it at my house a week later, some 23 miles away. I thought I read somewhere that they were maybe going to allow local pick-up (tho no in-store shopping), but that was several months ago...

 

[huckdavidson]

@huckdavidson nobody is "forcing" you to order brewing ingredients

I'm not sure what voluntary or involuntary purchases have to do with fraudulent, coerced, manipulative or unapplicable charges on items.

 

[kartracer2]

@huckdavidson , I guess I don't see what is dishonest about it.
Also, RB has a another shipping option with "Spee-dee", it's regional, that requires them to rely on you to make a shipping decision. I think that "Spee-dee" is cheaper that UPS if you can use it. I'm thinking the rate @Bobby_M pays for package shipped by UPS for the same item going the same distance will be different than the big boys. (I could be wrong though)
It is harder to "bake-in" shipping when you have several options also.
Again, just spit balling here.
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[mac_1103]

I'm going to assume you actually want to know why you're seeing these different prices and that this isn't just a rant type of thread.

Perhaps a not entirely valid assumption?

 

[Spartan1979]

I doubt anyone is going to change his mind.

 

[huckdavidson]

@huckdavidson , I guess I don't see what is dishonest about it.
Also, RB has a another shipping option with "Spee-dee", it's regional, that requires them to rely on you to make a shipping decision. I think that "Spee-dee" is cheaper that UPS if you can use it. I'm thinking the rate @Bobby_M pays for package shipped by UPS for the same item going the same distance will be different than the big boys. (I could be wrong though)
It is harder to "bake-in" shipping when you have several options also.
Again, just spit balling here.
Cheers,
Joel B.

Remove the free shipping markup from that packet of us05 and instead of $6-7 packet it becomes $2-3. What would you rather pay? If you don't need another $50-$100 worth of merchandise why pay the higher cost?

Ups and fedex have volume discounts. The more you ship the bigger your discount. The price you pay for shipping is marked up 20 - 60+ percent from what the large retailer nb, mb, etc pay.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I thought I read somewhere that they were maybe going to allow local pick-up (tho no in-store shopping), but that was several months ago...

... and it may take several more months for something that is beneficial NB and Twin Cities home brewers to become public.

OTOH, if one is in the Twin Cities area and is a member of one of the local clubs that have a good relationship with Northern Brewer, it may be that "the future is now".

 

[kartracer2]

Remove the free shipping discount from that packet of us05 and instead of $6-7 packet it becomes $2-3. What would you rather pay?

Ups and fedex have volume discounts. The more you ship the bigger your discount. The price you pay for shipping is marked up 20 - 60 percent from what the large retailer nb, mb, etc pay.

Well it looks like you need to do all your shopping with outfits that don't bake-in shipping then. That's the only way you can "stick it to the big guys" as I see it.
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[huckdavidson]

Well it looks like you need to do all your shopping with outfits that don't bake-in shipping then. That's the only way you can "stick it to the big guys" as I see it.
Cheers,
Joel B.

I already do as previously mentioned.

The sacrifice is apparently selection and variety. Though I'm not sure of the correlation (i.e. why?).

 

[mac_1103]

FWIW, there was a thread about bargain DME prices at Amazon about nine months ago. RiteBrew's price for 3 lb bags is actually $1.30 less today than it was then. It's only $2 a bag more than what Bobby told us is the best wholesale unit price he can get, and possibly actually less than his true total unit cost to carry the item. It seems obvious to me that RiteBrew is uniquiely positioned to undercut everyone else's price on Briess DME. That means they have an advantage in the market and they have chosen to pass (some of? most of?) the savings on to their customers. It doesn't mean that everyone else is ripping people off.

 

[kartracer2]

That means they have an advantage in the market and they have chosen to pass (some of? most of?) the savings on to their customers. It doesn't mean that everyone else is ripping people off.

^^^THIS ^^^
The term "loss leader" comes to mind. (or at less less mark-up leader)
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[huckdavidson]

FWIW, there was a thread about bargain DME prices at Amazon about nine months ago. RiteBrew's price for 3 lb bags is actually $1.30 less today than it was then. It's only $2 a bag more than what Bobby told us is the best wholesale unit price he can get, and possibly actually less than his true total unit cost to carry the item. It seems obvious to me that RiteBrew is uniquiely positioned to undercut everyone else's price on Briess DME. That means they have an advantage in the market and they have chosen to pass (some of? most of?) the savings on to their customers. It doesn't mean that everyone else is ripping people off.

They've also chosen not to impose a "free shipping" markup model on their customers for most of their products.

They could do so tommorrow.

Of course they also don't have the marketing machine that nb, mb, etc do and offer limited varieties, less employees, etc...

 

[whoaru99]

They've also chosen not to impose a "free shipping" markup model on their customers for most of their products.

I have a hard time feeling too much sympathy for poor choices in such a simple matter as looking at the bottom line.

 

[huckdavidson]

I have a hard time feeling too much sympathy for poor choices in such a simple matter as looking at the bottom line.

What do you mean?

 

[whoaru99]

I don't know how to restate it any clearer.

 

[huckdavidson]

Free Shipping:

Northern Brewer: > $99
More Beer: > $59
Brew Hardware: > $299
Williams Brewing: > $99.99
Rite Brew: none, discounted at certain cost points

Which is the best deal?

Which is the worst?

The free shipping markups and shipping provider discounts have to at least make up for shipping costs of any combo of items > the free shipping mark.

How would that free shipping mark be determined? An exercise in statistics most likely.

 

[huckdavidson]

There's often a joke at certain companies that the largest profit center is shipping.

 

[beren]

this seems apropos to this thread.

He talks about free returns and free shipping pretty much sums up all Bobby has said.

 

[Bobby_M]

The free shipping markups and shipping provider discounts have to at least make up for shipping costs of any combo of items > the free shipping mark.

My free shipping is at a gross value high enough that the shipping cost is a small enough chip out of the profit margin that I can afford to cover it. It's more items being picked by the same employee going into the same box so the cost is slightly lower for that amount of profit. It also doesn't cover most glass or any grain.

 

[mac_1103]

Which is the best deal?

Which is the worst?

Depends on what you're buying. You have to figure it out for yourself each time. But it's not hard and you don't even have to do the arithmetic yourself.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

I had an interesting experience this week. I needed to deal with CO2 tanks that I acquired from some guys getting out of brewing. One was a 5#, the other a 10#. When I pointed out that the 10# was expired, they essentially gave it to me considering the bulk of other gear I took off their hands.
I exchanged the 5# at the LHBS store 50 miles away, but they didn’t deal with the 10# tanks. The 5# exchange was $19.99; $22 with tax.

I took the expired 10# tank to a gas supplier 30 miles away. I told the guy upfront that I just got it and it was expired. He wasn’t concerned; said we’ll test it ourselves before refilling. As chance would have it, he was fresh out of 10# tanks; he could get them, but it would involve another round trip on another day. He remarked that he had plenty of 5’s and 20’s. I asked what can we do? I was expecting him to offer me two 5’s. Instead, he offered to upgrade to a 20#. I saw $’s spinning in my head, but agreed before overthinking it.
I also exchanged a 5# nitrogen tank. The nitrogen was $15; the CO2 $30. I was stunned. With tax, I paid $32.10 for 20#. Getting 20# in 5# exchanges as I have been doing, would cost me $87.96; not counting the additional 140 miles of driving!
Am I upset at the LHBS? No. He is not a gas vendor, he’s a gas customer like me. There’s a markup to be paid. He’s a great guy. I want him to stay in business. I don’t want to pay shipping on the 150# of grain I just bought from him; the drive was cheaper.
It’s just business. I’ve got choices, so I make them. I have a friend that I see weekly that lives 10 minutes from the LHBS, so I might even have him exchange a tank there for me when I don’t want to drive to either place.

 

[Bassman2003]

1) Bobby, thanks for being a great vendor & forum member. I wish you were my LHBS. We appreciate you 'pulling back the curtain' so to speak!

2) We as consumers have free will to shop wherever we want. Vendors have free will to charge whatever they want. If they end up charging too much, they lose customers. If they want to stay in business they adjust or they go out of business. It is the free market at work. No need to set anything.

3) Huck, it's the law of the wild. You gotta watch out for wolves when you are on the prairie. The world has a lot of sharp edges but this is not one of them! Vote with your feet/mouse/dollars and move on

I was on Morebeer yesterday ordering a couple of $15 Kegland valves. I thought, I might build a few gain bills to get to the $59 minimum. I started to look at their grain prices and decided against it. Some of the malt was over $3 per pound. They lost my business. Not a national legislative crisis. I will drive to my kind of close LHBS.

4) Are the products from Ritebrew grade A and fresh? When a retailer has consistently lower prices than everybody else, it makes me wonder if they are getting what falls off the truck at a lower price. I have not ordered from them but nothing surprises me in the online retailer space.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

4) Are the products from Ritebrew grade A and fresh? When a retailer has consistently lower prices than everybody else, it makes me wonder if they are getting what falls off the truck at a lower price. I have not ordered from them but nothing surprises me in the online retailer space.

In my experience, the ingredients are fresh. Occasionally, I see offers for dry yeast that is passed it's "use by" date. Those offers are clearly marked as such and often contain the "best by" date in the product description.

 

[user 246304]

4) Are the products from Ritebrew grade A and fresh? When a retailer has consistently lower prices than everybody else, it makes me wonder if they are getting what falls off the truck at a lower price. I have not ordered from them but nothing surprises me in the online retailer space.

Forgot to mention that yesterday - hate to admit it, but that has been in my mind as well.

 

[Airborneguy]

Just had to add that I am one of Bobby’s “locals”. He’s a 45 min drive each way, on a nostrilous traffic route, but well worth it.

I just pick up 3-4 recipes at a time to ease the pain of $2.80 cents of kwh’s burnt roundtrip driving there.

But seriously, a few weeks ago when I was setting up my kegerator on the Friday before Christmas, I was VERY happy to have Brew Hardware so close when I made my second trip, 1:30 minutes each way in traffic, to pick up a $3.00 fitting that I didn’t realize I needed when I made the first trip earlier in the day.

As I told my wife, I’m lucky as hell as bad as the traffic was because others would wait a week and pay shipping for a stupid kegerator-specific part like that. Home Depot and Lowe’s don’t carry everything. When you need them, these guys are GOLD!

 

[user 246304]

In my experience, the ingredients are fresh. Occasionally, I see offers for dry yeast that is passed it's "use by" date. Those offers are clearly marked as such and often contain the "best by" date in the product description.

Crossed in the mail. This will be the second order I've gotten from them, so good to know.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

... and what if these companies are charging different prices because they have varying cost structures based on warehouse location, local / regional labor rates, ...? Are the higher cost providers listed above located in more expensive regions of the USA?

Perhaps a quantum of curiosity and some 1970s grade school geography might find a pattern (hint: a couple of the lower priced providers mentioned here are in what is occasionally referred to as "fly over" country).

... and what if these companies are also working on the development of new products (e.g. OxBlox, style specific LME packaged and shipped fresh, ..., ..., ...,, ...) to make the hobby better?