Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[bracconiere]

And nobody seems to know where the money went. lol

LOL, some uper's liquor cabniets!

 

[doug293cz]

• Every time you make 1 gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 BTU."
• Ethanol from corn costs about $1.74 per gallon to produce, compared with about 95 cents to produce a gallon of gasoline.

https://news.cornell.edu/stories/20... time you make 1,produce a gallon of gasoline.

Thanks for the reference.

Brew on

 

[TwistedGray]

But the trick is not to charge the battery to full since the last 30% takes twice as long as the first 70%. The car figures out the best places to stop and the optimal time to charge to take advantage of that. For instance, a trip I do regularly that used to take 10 hours (non stop) by gas car now takes me 11.5 hours (with charging) in my model S. But it comes out about the same either way since I never drove all the way without stopping for food or a break and that is when you charge. I just happen to have free charging but even if I didn't the cost would be about 1/3 that of gas. The absolute best part is the car does the driving. Basically you are just there as a systems monitor which means you can relax and take in the scenery and chill as opposed to always keeping it between the lines. It's amazing how much better you feel after long trips because of this.

I could never go back to a regular car.

Mine is full manual driving, no assistance. But yah I could imagine lane assist and fsd modes would be a huge game changer considering how much I hate other people on the road. ****** drivers... For now, I'll blow their doors off "quietly"

 

[Broothru]

But the trick is not to charge the battery to full since the last 30% takes twice as long as the first 70%. The car figures out the best places to stop and the optimal time to charge to take advantage of that. For instance, a trip I do regularly that used to take 10 hours (non stop) by gas car now takes me 11.5 hours (with charging) in my model S. But it comes out about the same either way since I never drove all the way without stopping for food or a break and that is when you charge. I just happen to have free charging but even if I didn't the cost would be about 1/3 that of gas. The absolute best part is the car does the driving. Basically you are just there as a systems monitor which means you can relax and take in the scenery and chill as opposed to always keeping it between the lines. It's amazing how much better you feel after long trips because of this.

I could never go back to a regular car.

Topping off the last 30% of charge does indeed take longer. That said, doesn't repeated partial charging "imprint" the battery to think the partial charge is actually 100%? IIRC this used to be an issue with NiCad batteries. Not sure if this is true with modern Nickel Metal Hydride power banks.

 

[Bilsch]

Topping off the last 30% of charge does indeed take longer. That said, doesn't repeated partial charging "imprint" the battery to think the partial charge is actually 100%? IIRC this used to be an issue with NiCad batteries. Not sure if this is true with modern Nickel Metal Hydride power banks.

The memory effect was true of NiCad and NiMH but is not a thing with lithium polymer chemistries such as NCA (LiNiCoAlO2) which is used in Tesla packs or NMC (LiNiMnCoO2) and LFP (LiFePO4) which are common in other EV's.

 

[TwistedGray]

So in other words you can charge it to any level and it doesn't really matter all that much? Exception - as you reach 100% there is some concern, is there not?

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

So in other words you can charge it to any level and it doesn't really matter all that much? Exception - as you reach 100% there is some concern, is there not?

My understanding is that repeated charging to 100% reduces the life of the battery more quickly than repeated charging to a lower level such as 80%. You can do it, but it's generally not advised to ALWAYS charge to 100%.

I.e. typical owners charge on their home charger during the night to only 80%, because in daily driving they never need more than that. Prior to a road trip, they may charge to 100% to get the most range they can get on the first leg of travel, but from there on they'll only charge to 70-80% at their pit stops to save charge time.

 

[Bilsch]

My understanding is that repeated charging to 100% reduces the life of the battery more quickly than repeated charging to a lower level such as 80%. You can do it, but it's generally not advised to ALWAYS charge to 100%.

I.e. typical owners charge on their home charger during the night to only 80%, because in daily driving they never need more than that. Prior to a road trip, they may charge to 100% to get the most range they can get on the first leg of travel, but from there on they'll only charge to 70-80% at their pit stops to save charge time.

Yes, that is correct. If you don't need to charge to even 70% for your daily driving it's said to be slightly better for battery longevity. I try to keep it between 20% and 60% SOC but thats just being picky.

 

[TwistedGray]

Thanks guys - as a first time zipper, good information to have. I have no interest in using my home electricity to charge it, so I'll have to plan accordingly.

I parked it in my neighbor's garage on Saturday (not plugged in), and it had an estimated 145mi. I've been checking it daily, and we're at about 125mi three days later without it being plugged in...good information to have as well considering I don't drive daily. I'll need to know phantom loss and plan for that.

^ Anything BAD with not keeping it on a charger?

 

[Apple_Jacker]

IF ethanol was something one would want to pursue, they should leave alone the crops used to grow food, and look into hemp or other plants instead.

 

[Bilsch]

^ Anything BAD with not keeping it on a charger?

The battery will use some juice depending on ambient temp keeping the pack from getting cold. Also the more you check in with the app, will keep the computer from going to sleep and will increase the drain. It's better for the battery to always keep it plugged in even if it's only 110v.

Why the no interest in using your home power?

 

[Broothru]

But the trick is not to charge the battery to full since the last 30% takes twice as long as the first 70%. The car figures out the best places to stop and the optimal time to charge to take advantage of that. For instance, a trip I do regularly that used to take 10 hours (non stop) by gas car now takes me 11.5 hours (with charging) in my model S. But it comes out about the same either way since I never drove all the way without stopping for food or a break and that is when you charge. I just happen to have free charging but even if I didn't the cost would be about 1/3 that of gas. The absolute best part is the car does the driving. Basically you are just there as a systems monitor which means you can relax and take in the scenery and chill as opposed to always keeping it between the lines. It's amazing how much better you feel after long trips because of this.

I could never go back to a regular car.

Hey, @Bilsch. I assume you use a Power Wall for home charging. Since I'm buying my son's Prius Plus hybrid, I'm looking for a non-proprietary 240V wall unit (son only used 110V garage outlet). Any suggestions or "reviews?" Mostly interested in things to look for, brands to avoid, etc.

 

[TwistedGray]

The battery will use some juice depending on ambient temp keeping the pack from getting cold. Also the more you check in with the app, will keep the computer from going to sleep and will increase the drain. It's better for the battery to always keep it plugged in even if it's only 110v.

Good to know about the app - thanks.

Why the no interest in using your home power?

Free SC for life, so why spend my own money?

Also, I am in a very old home with very old wiring that may or may not be able to support the electricity required. ...and my elec/gas bill is already like $300 a month (small home, too); the joys of living along the California coast : )

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I wonder if the solution is to hook it up to your 110V and simply tell the car to maintain charge, rather than actually charge it? 110V is woefully slow if you're trying to add miles, but I'm sure maintaining charge would be reasonably inexpensive for your electric bill...

I tend to keep my gas/electric bills lower than that in my small CA home slightly removed from the coast... But that's because I try to never run AC or heat... I grew up in Chicago--I can handle the "cold" winters here without the heater!

 

[Bilsch]

Hey, @Bilsch. I assume you use a Power Wall for home charging. Since I'm buying my son's Prius Plus hybrid, I'm looking for a non-proprietary 240V wall unit (son only used 110V garage outlet). Any suggestions or "reviews?" Mostly interested in things to look for, brands to avoid, etc.

I think you might mean wall charger instead of powerwall? A powerwall is Tesla's home battery storage unit.

Since a Prius has fairly small batteries compared to Tesla and other EV's, you usually don't need anything high amperage to charge them. A regular 110v outlet will fully charge them in 4 hours. If that is not fast enough you can get a level 2 charger for your home that will cut that time in half but really it seems like more money then it's worth to me. I'm sorry I can't help with brands of level 2 chargers as I have no experience with those.

 

[Broothru]

I think you might mean wall charger instead of powerwall? A powerwall is Tesla's home battery storage unit.

Since a Prius has fairly small batteries compared to Tesla and other EV's, you usually don't need anything high amperage to charge them. A regular 110v outlet will fully charge them in 4 hours. If that is not fast enough you can get a level 2 charger for your home that will cut that time in half but really it seems like more money then it's worth to me. I'm sorry I can't help with brands of level 2 chargers as I have no experience with those.

Understand. Just don't tell my wife. This is my excuse to get a 50 Amp circuit to the garage so I can power our RV when it's in the driveway. Plus I'll be able to power up my 240V boilpot in the garage for inclement weather brewing.

 

[Bilsch]

Free SC for life, so why spend my own money?

Also, I am in a very old home with very old wiring that may or may not be able to support the electricity required. ...and my elec/gas bill is already like $300 a month (small home, too); the joys of living along the California coast : )

Here is the thing though.. superchargers are designed to charge fast and that is not generally a good thing to do to your battery constantly. Besides that, Tesla has an algorithm that tracks how many battery cycles were done on a fast charge and when that number hits a certain level they will start to software limit the speed at which you can charge to save battery damage.

On the other hand most people do not even notice the increase in their electric bill from EV charging as it's typically so small as to be lost in the noise. Charging at home is cheap and better for your expensive to replace battery. Use the SC for road trips and charge you car at home.

As for the wiring in your home, you can set the car for what ever amperage you want to charge it at, from 1a to 40a when using a nema 14-50 outlet and the included charging cable. When plugged into 110v you can select from 1 to 12 amps. So no worries with old wiring.

 

[TwistedGray]

Understand. Just don't tell my wife. This is my excuse to get a 50 Amp circuit to the garage so I can power our RV when it's in the driveway. Plus I'll be able to power up my 240V boilpot in the garage for inclement weather brewing.

Lol, my RV is plugged in 110v...it suffices.

 

[TwistedGray]

Here is the thing though.. superchargers are designed to charge fast and that is not generally a good thing to do to your battery constantly. Besides that, Tesla has an algorithm that tracks how many battery cycles were done on a fast charge and when that number hits a certain level they will start to software limit the speed at which you can charge to save battery damage.

On the other hand most people do not even notice the increase in their electric bill from EV charging as it's typically so small as to be lost in the noise. Charging at home is cheap and better for your expensive to replace battery. Use the SC for road trips and charge you car at home.

As for the wiring in your home, you can set the car for what ever amperage you want to charge it at, from 1a to 40a when using a nema 14-50 outlet and the included charging cable. When plugged into 110v you can select from 1 to 12 amps. So no worries with old wiring.

Fair enough

How would an otherwise ignorant person know what to set the charging amperage to though?

 

[Bilsch]

How would an otherwise ignorant person know what to set the charging amperage to though?

Keep turning it up until you smell smoke then back off an amp or two.

But seriously.. a hair dryer draws more amperage from a 110v socket then a Tesla so if you haven't already burned down your house from everyday appliances.. I think you are probably good.

 

[NGD]

On the other hand most people do not even notice the increase in their electric bill from EV charging as it's typically so small as to be lost in the noise. Charging at home is cheap and better for your expensive to replace battery. Use the SC for road trips and charge you car at home.

8kWh battery on our Prime added roughly $20/mo. Buddy in SoCal with a 2012 Leaf says it added roughly $40/mo to his bill with a 24kWh battery pack. I believe they pay slightly less than we do as well.

If I had a 85kWh battery the impact would be very noticeable without solar to offset the difference. Granted we pay some of the highest prices for electricity in the nation, but California also has the largest amount of electric vehicles sales. Off-peak hours are $.18366 kWh. Summer and winter peak prices are $0.49616 and $0.36905/kWh respectively.

Granted very few people drive far enough daily to fully charge the battery all the way, but it explains why the Superchargers are almost always busy in the Sacramento area. It's not uncommon to go shopping for an 45 minutes and come back to see the same person sitting in their car. This is especially true for cars like the Leaf and Kia's. Those people get alot of Netflix time.

Point being its noticeable and will become increasingly so in the future.

Still....THE TORQUE!!

If anyone's interested in cost, here's a PDF to PG&E's Time of use service for EV's

 

[TwistedGray]

8kWh battery on our Prime added roughly $20/mo. Buddy in SoCal with a 2012 Leaf says it added roughly $40/mo to his bill with a 24kWh battery pack. I believe they pay slightly less than we do as well.

Everything I do add $20-50/mo., lol.

 

[TwistedGray]

Still haven't transferred it...keep getting nervous every time I see this message!

Gonna have to pull off the band-aid soon!!

 

[NGD]

Why did I break a sweat reading that?

Fingers crossed for you. Either way that car is a beauty.

 

[TwistedGray]

Why did I break a sweat reading that?

Fingers crossed for you. Either way that car is a beauty.

I know, I know, I know. I wanna click it, but at the same time I really do NOT want to click it. If for some reason it does not carry over, the car loses significant value...I bought it with the understanding that the unlimited charging WILL carry over to me, and if it doesn't I have very little recourse. I could sue the previous owner, but other than that...not much else I could do.

There are many, many stories of people buying used from a third party dealer and/or from Tesla who strips the unlimited charging, but no stories that I can find where it is stripped when sold to private parties. With that said, still sh!tting bricks over here and haven't completed the transfer yet because of that.

 

[TwistedGray]

@Bilsch Also, I forgot to add that I have no 'ground' in the house...old knob and tube. I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, but I don't think I can connect to ungrounded 110v.

I know, I know...don't say it.

 

[NGD]

There are two Porsche Taycans that showed up in town recently. The one I see frequently appears to be the turbo S model and man does it look mean. Curious how they would do against a Model S plaid

www.slashgear.com/2020-porsche-taycan-turbo-s-first-drive-review-electric-excellence-18603248/amp/

 

[day_trippr]

The trend is clear...and looming large...
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/124565362/audi-to-end-development-of-new-combustion-engines

 

[renstyle]

There are two Porsche Taycans that showed up in town recently. The one I see frequently appears to be the turbo S model and man does it look mean. Curious how they would do against a Model S plaid

www.slashgear.com/2020-porsche-taycan-turbo-s-first-drive-review-electric-excellence-18603248/amp/

Beautiful piece of kit. I've always been a sucker for any Porsche that channels the classic '911' look.

From what I've read, the vehicles offer similar performance, other than range. In 2020 the Taycan didn't even crack the top 15 EVs in that metric, but most folks don't buy a Porsche for this reason.

 

[renstyle]

This discussion of increasing EVs on the road speaks to a bigger issue, at least here in the US (which was put in display in spectacular fashion last month during the Texas cold snap): bread and butter electrical infrastructure is in need of some serious refurbishment.

As an example: I harken from NW Iowa, which is one of the windiest places in the USA. We have scads of turbines running, most owned by the local utility. The area consistently generates more power than it can use, to the point where some turbines need to spin down because the local grid can't take the power, because you cannot spool the lone coal plant in the area up/down willy-nilly.

It's amazing how long electrical grid equipment can (and has) been running... decades without major upgrades. Alot of NIMBY and FUD in this arena is keeping it that way. Only disasters like the "land hurricane" we experienced this last summer gets basic infrastructure updated, and THAT was because the former infrastructure was basically blown down!

This mismatch could be solved by a 2-wire HVDC line running to eastern Iowa where the power could be more efficiently utilized in bigger cities, among other ideas.

Smart grids where folks have a real incentive to monitor their power use is also slow to take hold. With this vehicle-to-and-from-grid could be a possibility for many areas. There are of course privacy concerns to flesh out, as well as security against hacking, but I feel these problems are solvable.