Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[AzOr]

Rivian’s are nice but a bit out of my price range. They are introducing a more affordable model next year, but I’m still looking for a used model.

 

[sibelman]

You want the clearance of the Solterra / bZ4X. Used, they seem to start at ~$25K. If that's too much, you might need to wait.

 

[sibelman]

I haven't looked into that closely

One firefighter's take.

The frequency is low, the severity is high. EVs burn much less often than ICEs, but ICE fires may not be quite as hard to extinguish.

 

[tracer bullet]

I'm a Toyota fan boi

You may already know but the RAV4 Prime can do quite a few miles (40-50 depending if in town w/ regen or highway only, per a coworker) using electric-only, and at highway speeds. Though finding one used at a good price is probably nearing impossible.

I've always liked the look of th Polestars, and they were on my short list for another car (the 2's, specifically). I've never driven one or talked to an owner but all reviews indicated to me that it would be a good choice. For what that's worth.

There are quite a few good Youtube review channels, some of them unafraid to compare cars against each other and tell you what they truly do or don't like. If you're really interested you might set a side a few weekend afternoons and give them a watch. One of many I like (good for comparing but awesome for simply getting all the details):

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Either way, I'm a little surprised by how quickly some of the ev's drop in value after purchase.

I think this is something that may continue for a while. We've seen brand-new EV pricing decrease for a number of reasons.

First, regardless of listed MSRP, the tax rebates drop the effective price of an EV. Second, we're in a bit of an oversupply situation still, where companies are willing to cut prices below MSRP to move metal. Both of those, BTW, are "phantom" drops in value, as the actual cost people are paying (whether accounting for tax rebates or discounts) reflect a smaller drop in value than the actual listed "value" of the car new, i.e. MSRP.

Third, the technological advances in batteries are bringing down the cost of EVs as time goes by, in a way that doesn't really exist in the ICEV market. So used prices will be an actual drop in value compared to brand-new BEVs as brand-new BEVs are being built with batteries that cost less than what was available 3-4 years prior when the bulk of the used market was built.

All this IMHO, of course. But it's one of the reasons that when/if I enter the BEV market (not until ~2027 or so unless I have to replace my ICEV due to unscheduled issue like accident/massive mechanical issue), I'm hoping that the used market will be robust. I always buy used with ICEV and let someone else take the bulk of the depreciation hit, which seems to be higher with BEVs than ICEVs.

 

[AzOr]

You may already know but the RAV4 Prime can do quite a few miles (40-50 depending if in town w/ regen or highway only, per a coworker) using electric-only, and at highway speeds. Though finding one used at a good price is probably nearing impossible.

I've always liked the look of th Polestars, and they were on my short list for another car (the 2's, specifically). I've never driven one or talked to an owner but all reviews indicated to me that it would be a good choice. For what that's worth.

There are quite a few good Youtube review channels, some of them unafraid to compare cars against each other and tell you what they truly do or don't like. If you're really interested you might set a side a few weekend afternoons and give them a watch. One of many I like (good for comparing but awesome for simply getting all the details):

The RAV4 Prime would fit the bill, but the resale value is a little absurd on these things. The hybrid only versions are a little more reasonable. I had the hybrid 2024 as a rental for a week and it was solid; nice ride, good ground clearance etc. If I only had one vehicle, I wouldn't mind dropping some money.

Mitsubishi has a plug in outlander, but it's such a small company, at least in the US, it's hard to get reliability data.

 

[AzOr]

These people will exist for a while, better off ignoring them, kind of how the direction of the car market is…

I’ve always loved the original Scout. My father had one when I was a kid and it was just the coolest thing to me. The new one looks very similar, of course in a modern way. The timing is perfect as well as my Tesla will be around 6-7 years old by the time it is available. And I already knew I want to go back to an SUV with my next vehicle. My wife has a Mach E. We need something larger for the family.

Scout is owned by Volkswagen and they are associated with Rivian which is looking more and more like it will stick around.

You mention getting rid of your Tesla at 6 or 7 years old, is this only because you want something different?

 

[sibelman]

depreciation hit, which seems to be higher with BEVs than ICEVs

This hit might stay higher because of the degradation - real or imagined - of some BEV batteries.

All cars suffer wear and tear, of course. But a well maintained ICE power train from a quality maker seems longer lived than BEV, notwithstanding the immense number of moving parts in a gas engine.

I choose BEV in spite of the possibly higher TCO, because I seek to reduce my reliance on fossil fuels. Also, they're effing awesome! Quiet, not smelly, refuel at home... what's not to like?!

 

[Kent88]

I choose BEV in spite of the possibly higher TCO, because I seek to reduce my reliance on fossil fuels. Also, they're awesome! Quiet, not smelly, refuel at home... what's not to like?!

From what I understand, TCO of a BEV is typically less than an ICE-V.

The refuel at home benefit is really nice. Fast/DC charging can put a lot of miles on while you go into a convenience store, stretch, use the washroom, and grab some snacks, so even road trippers shouldn't really notice the time it takes to charge since you're "multi-tasking" anyway. But for homeowners who don't often take their vehicle out of a 50mi radius of their house, they'll do an overwhelming amount of charging in their own garage. I think that saves time.

I really like that I can prestart the Bolt in my closed garage, put my daughter in her carseat, and not have her exposed to the cold of a Midwest winter before we drop her brother off at school.

 

[Airborneguy]

You mention getting rid of your Tesla at 6 or 7 years old, is this only because you want something different?

Mostly because I’ll be ready to move on. There’s way more viable EV options now compared to when I bought the Tesla.

I’ve actually never had a car longer than just over 3 years. They’re my financial achilles heel. I’ve only recently kicked the habit (sort of lol). We did keep the Outback that I drove prior to the Tesla for a total of 5 years, 2 months, but it had gone to my wife after just under 3 years.

The other issue is that neither of our current cars can be a full-family road trip car. Mine is too small, her range is way too low and it’s not NACS. When the Scout arrives, it will come with NACS, solid range, and enough space for all 5 of us and the dogs.

 

[mac_1103]

The RAV4 Prime would fit the bill, but the resale value is a little absurd on these things.

Hyundai and Kia make compact and midsize plug-in hybrid SUVs that might be worth looking at.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

This hit might stay higher because of the degradation - real or imagined - of some BEV batteries.

As far as I can tell as an outsider to the industry, battery degradation as an issue seems to be mostly imagined. It seems that a lot of the concerns can be mitigated by battery management. Both as it relates to charging speed, thermal management, how often it's charged to 100%, etc.

However, this is one of the reasons that I'm leery about jumping in. I feel like Tesla probably is farther along the "learning curve" than any other EV maker, but I have a lot of personal reasons that I don't want to deal with Tesla as a company. (Not worth getting into BTW.)

That means that any BEV I'd be looking at is a company that's somewhat behind Tesla on that learning curve. And that because of that, if I'm looking for a "gently used" 3 year old used EV, I'm dealing with not only where they were on the learning curve, but where they were 3 years ago.

And then on top of that I have to wonder in the used market how it was charged... Was it constantly charged at L3 DC fast chargers by someone who always took it to 100%? Or was it charged by someone who rarely ever left their area, never went above 80%, and at worst was charging at L2? Similar to an ICEV where you wonder whether it was gently driven by Granny on her way the grocery store once a week, bingo twice a week, and to church every Sunday, or whether it was driven by an 18 yo with a lead foot?

That said, if the hit is higher because of imagined issues with battery degradation that aren't real, then I benefit even more by buying used... If the market is devaluing used BEVs based on a completely bogus reason, I'm more than happy to exploit that for my own savings

 

[AzOr]

Mostly because I’ll be ready to move on. There’s way more viable EV options now compared to when I bought the Tesla.

I’ve actually never had a car longer than just over 3 years. They’re my financial achilles heel. I’ve only recently kicked the habit (sort of lol). We did keep the Outback that I drove prior to the Tesla for a total of 5 years, 2 months, but it had gone to my wife after just under 3 years.

The other issue is that neither of our current cars can be a full-family road trip car. Mine is too small, her range is way too low and it’s not NACS. When the Scout arrives, it will come with NACS, solid range, and enough space for all 5 of us and the dogs.

Ha. No judgements. I can see the draw of always having a “fresh” car. I'm just too cheap to take the first year hit.

 

[tracer bullet]

Mitsubishi has a plug in outlander, but it's such a small company, at least in the US, it's hard to get reliability data.

True, they do, and I tend to forget about it. I have a coworker with a new hybrid Outlander, largely because he had 0 issues with his older Outlander (non hybrid). My wife has an outlander sport that's 10 years old and hasn't had a single problem yet. That's just 2 people though, you'd want to look into it more of course.

Kind of a downside with Mitsubishi's is that the cars don't hardly change from year to year. My wife wanted to get a new one, just to have a new one, but the dang things are basically identical and so there's no point. The upside of that is that they've learned all the issues and solved them and they are fairly bulletproof.

It might be a unique situation but her dealership has been awesome as well. They didn't pull any of the standard sales crap, the guy working with us had the hands of a mechanic, loved cars, and was happy to do all the things we wanted to test the car and buy it and not be a schmuck at any point along the way. And their service department prices are really good as well. I change the oil on my 2 BMW's because I can do it for less than half. I have her take hers in because I can hardly get a oil and a filter for the same amount. Practically all services this side of replacing wipers or an air filter they will do for hardly any more than I can get the parts myself.

 

[tracer bullet]

I've read a few places that the original battery longevity estimates weren't done to realistic real world conditions. Maybe they tried, but still ended up missing it. BEV's have been lasting a lot longer than predicted, overall.

Reliability's a funny thing to predict. This was from a podcast, and I'm paraphrasing, but their gist was that hybrids are of course gas and battery both, so double the powertrains, but show as being reliable because so many of them are RAV's and Prius's and Toyotas are reliable cars. EV's showed as unreliable for a long time because they were Tesla's, and as a new manufacturer had a lot of problems - that happened to be for about everything except the power train. So if reliability is a concern, be sure to look at the details before being concerned (or, not concerned).

 

[Airborneguy]

Ha. No judgements. I can see the draw of always having a “fresh” car. I'm just too cheap to take the first year hit.

Most of my cars were used. The Tesla and the Mach E both were bought used. The Outback was a new purchase. I think I’ve had 4 other new cars.

 

[AzOr]

Holy Mackerel,
I just took a spin in a coworkers Tesla Y.
Wow. It’s brand new, just delivered in late Dec. I’m not sure which trim level it is but it was 42k. It does have extended range and awd.
That thing is nice. The ride was super quiet, minimalist design etc. He also has the auto drive feature for a few months, until he has to pay for it. I can see why they are so popular.
My friend goosed it a couple of times (when it was safe to do so). That’s too much speed. I know why people have described getting tunnel vision.

I have another coworker who recently purchased a new Camry. He get the top trim and it was just over 40k for the hybrid. A Camry.

 

[sibelman]

Honda 0 -- I want these!

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I just took a spin in a coworkers Tesla Y.

My friend goosed it a couple of times (when it was safe to do so). That’s too much speed. I know why people have described getting tunnel vision.

I'd love to get predictions on this. Are EVs going to mostly keep the same performance levels (fast) going forward, or are we going to see manufacturers dial things back to save costs?

I think this might actually be the case. For example, I just came across--what prompted me to post this question--a Motor Trend review of the 2024 Hyundai Kona electric. One of the "Cons" listed is "Slower than previous generation". But "slower" just means it goes 0-60 in 7.1s. That's plenty for typical drivers.

The Model Y comes in performance (0-60 in 3.5s) and long range (0-60 in 4.8s), which is probably "too much" for most people. I mean, I like driving fast--I used to do trackdays on a motorcycle--but I'm now at an age where the last thing I need is a car that will entice to start going 0-60 in under 5 seconds lol. That will bring unwanted attention of the "cherries and berries" variety with my lead foot.

I wonder if the market will find a happy medium...

 

[oakbarn]

I was going to work years ago when a guy in a very nice old Hemi punched it and lost control and ended up running sideways to an wall. I would be afraid of that acceleration. I no longer drive (have not for many years) so any comments I make is from a person with no dog in the hunts. That being said, my wife's car will not be electric. We live too far from where we go and too many miles for an EV. Since we only have one car, it must be big enough to haul several (5) grandchildren at the same time as us, and have some legs.

 

[AzOr]

Yes. What’s gonna happen in a few years when the price of used, fast ev’s hit that “first car” price range?

 

[Airborneguy]

I’m so used to the ridiculous acceleration of my Model 3 Performance that I sometimes annoy passengers without realizing it.

It’s great for changing lanes or merging into traffic.

 

[Agent]

Yes. What’s gonna happen in a few years when the price of used, fast ev’s hit that “first car” price range?

If it's anything like Chevy Volt or Apple products, they'll just quietly decrease capacity and/or performance in order to increase longevity.

Then it'll just go regular EV speed.

 

[AzOr]

16yr old me + super fast car = tragic country western song.

Speaking of- I’ll know when ev’s are mainstream when there’s a country western song about driving to the river with fishing rods in my Teslas.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, very nice old hemis didn't come with stability control...or decent suspensions and competent brake systems, for that matter. Not that folks can't still find ways to wrap themselves around poles and trees.

I own two 5 second cars, including a modern hemi. I don't need faster than that.

Cheers!

 

[Kent88]

Country western songs aren't that rural anymore.

 

[Broothru]

Country western songs aren't that rural anymore.

Compliments of David Allen Coe:

"… Well, a friend of mine named Steve Goodman wrote that song
And he told me it was the perfect country & western song
I wrote him back a letter and I told him it was not the perfect country & western song
Because he hadn't said anything at all about mama
Or trains, or trucks, or prison, or getting' drunk

Well, he sat down and wrote another verse to the song and he sent it to me
And after reading it I realized that my friend had written the perfect country & western song
And I felt obliged to include it on this album
The last verse goes like this here

"… Well, I was drunk the day my mom got out of prison
And I went to pick her up in the rain
But before I could get to the station in my pickup truck
She got run over by a damned old train"

… And I'll hang around as long as you will let me
And I never minded standing' in the rain, no
But you don't have to call me darlin', darlin'
You never even called me
Well, I wonder why you don't call me
Why don't you ever call me by my name"

 

[Kent88]

I dunno, I haven't listened to much new country music lately. One of the last mainstream country songs I heard was "she had me at Heads Carolina", and searching that song to see what it's proper name was suggests Jo Dee Messina might've given this new song her blessing, but all that song really does for me is make me sad that I could be listening to "Heads Carolina, Tails California", but instead I'm stuck listening to some dudes tribute to that song. No thanks.

No, I expect that if EVs make it into country songs in a positive way (not like that dude who sings about a Prius driver who "... can't even bait a hook..." ), it'll probably be something mundane like making out in the car at a charging station.

 

[mac_1103]

it'll probably be something mundane like making out in the car at a charging station

Can the average country singer last 20 minutes?

 

[sibelman]

Don't need the speed myself. But Prius-class acceleration seems sub-par. I doubt EVs are headed there.