Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[betarhoalphadelta]

Saw a polished Cybertruck yesterday. Didn't make it any less hideous. In fact, it made the hideousness stand out even more.

Sadly couldn't get a picture.

 

[Kharnynb]

Saw a polished Cybertruck yesterday. Didn't make it any less hideous. In fact, it made the hideousness stand out even more.

Sadly couldn't get a picture.

I saw one of those on reddit...looked like a serious hazard.

 

[PCABrewing]

From an NTSB document:

Hybrid electric vehicles generate very little noise when operating under battery power, making them hard for pedestrians to detect. In December 2016, NHTSA issued a final rule establishing FMVSS 141, which sets minimum sound requirements for hybrid and electric vehicles. In February 2018, NHTSA published a revised FMVSS 141, based on petitions for reconsideration. Under the new safety regulations, hybrids and electric cars will be equipped with a device that emits a sound to alert passersby that the vehicle is running. Manufacturers have until September 1, 2020, to meet the requirement. This is a positive step by the regulator.

My wife's hybrid has that "feature".

I think it is ridiculous because there are plenty ICE powered vehicles where the loudest noise they emit is the tire noise!
I can envision the meeting (having attended similar) where this serious but UN-recognized hazard was brought to light. Thank goodness for alert and insightful saviors that protect us from such hazards. Just what we need is a minimum prescribed noise floor in the transportation world.

I wonder when the noise makers will be required on bicycles & e-bikes?

 

[mac_1103]

I wonder when the noise makers will be required on bicycles & e-bikes?

I personally wouldn't use a Mickey Mantle rookie card...

 

[Kent88]

That's amateur hour

I'm not endorsing this, but I think any aunt/uncle/grandparent can appreciate how this could be amusing.

 

[sibelman]

I guess you could mount those bad boys on an electric bike.

 

[redrocker652002]

I was going to say probably not, but I saw the new electric Chevy Blazer and man it looks nice. In talking to the service lady, I had to get my new to me 2022 Colorado serviced under warranty, she was saying you can use a regular plug to charge them. That, to me, is a plus as I don't want to spend the money on putting a charging station up if I don't have to. So, I went from a no, to a maybe. LOL

 

[Kent88]

she was saying you can use a regular plug to charge them. That, to me, is a plus as I don't want to spend the money on putting a charging station up if I don't have to. So, I went from a no, to a maybe. LOL

So thread regulars pay attention so next time we have an anti-EV critic show up we'll remember that first I'm honest before I'm anywhere near pushy.

You absolutely can make charging by a regular household outlet work... sometimes. My spouse and I drove a lot of miles on electric with our Volt without installing a level 2 charger. We are in the process of getting a level 2 put in for our Bolt, but we've had it for 6 months without it.

But we don't drive it far. In the winter it stayed within 5 miles of the house probably 4 days a week. Now in the summer it usually goes less than 40mi a day, and rarely over 70mi a day.

Why is all that relevant? A household plug will add about 3 miles per hour of charge. A 240 line, it depends on the vehicle's efficiency and the amps, but it should put on at least 12 miles per hour of charge, but can add above 30 miles per hour of charge with reasonable amps.

 

[Airborneguy]

Yeah its highly dependent upon your typical mileage. I absolutely could not make do with 120v charging. I average over 25,000 miles per year.

 

[AzOr]

I was going to say probably not, but I saw the new electric Chevy Blazer and man it looks nice. In talking to the service lady, I had to get my new to me 2022 Colorado serviced under warranty, she was saying you can use a regular plug to charge them. That, to me, is a plus as I don't want to spend the money on putting a charging station up if I don't have to. So, I went from a no, to a maybe. LOL

Those new blazer evs are very nice looking. Much better than the Bolt.
No offense, @Kent88

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Yeah its highly dependent upon your typical mileage. I absolutely could not make do with 120v charging. I average over 25,000 miles per year.

Yeah, definitely wouldn't work for you.

I could get away with 120V. WFH most of the week. Taking kids to/from school would draw the battery down, but not so much that it'd ever approach empty during a work week. (The oldest is about to get his license so he'll be able to drive his siblings, so that should go away.) With a lot of the weekend to top it off. And I've got my ICE Jeep that I could always use in a pinch (as long as it's not raining; no top on it).

I think there are probably a lot more people who could get away with 120V than most of them think. When you think about how many people drive PHEV and might only fill the gas tank once every 6 months or so, you know that they're not driving enough to meaningfully draw down the battery if they can add 30-45 miles overnight each night and then top up any drawdown over the weekend.

 

[TexasTea]

No, I would never buy one. for the following reasons:
1.) Limited range/load
2. limited energy density.- energy density if diesel fuel for example is about 11.5 kwh/kg vs 0.25 kwh/kg for a lithium battery pack.
3. Limited life- if you get stuck in below freezing weather in the middle of nowhere, you won't be able to run the heater for very long before you deplete the charge and freeze to death.

 

[day_trippr]

 

[mac_1103]

No, I would never buy one. for the following reasons:

1) and 2) are really the same reason. 3) is kinda BS - what if you get stuck in below freezing weather in an ICE vehicle because the engine died? What if you get stuck in a blizzard in an ICE vehicle with a nearly empty gas tank?

 

[TexasTea]

1) and 2) are really the same reason. 3) is kinda BS - what if you get stuck in below freezing weather in an ICE vehicle because the engine died? What if you get stuck in a blizzard in an ICE vehicle with a nearly empty gas tank?

Energy density and range may be the same reason. However, I can control gas level because I have eyes. I can and do keep my engines in good repair. What if the electric motor had a problem. I can't control the lack of range/charge other than not buy one.

 

[Kent88]

Those new blazer evs are very nice looking. Much better than the Bolt.
No offense, @Kent88

No offense taken. They better look better when they're 2 to 3 times the price!

I looked at Blazers for an evening. I just couldn't get over the price.

 

[redrocker652002]

So thread regulars pay attention so next time we have an anti-EV critic show up we'll remember that first I'm honest before I'm anywhere near pushy.

You absolutely can make charging by a regular household outlet work... sometimes. My spouse and I drove a lot of miles on electric with our Volt without installing a level 2 charger. We are in the process of getting a level 2 put in for our Bolt, but we've had it for 6 months without it.

But we don't drive it far. In the winter it stayed within 5 miles of the house probably 4 days a week. Now in the summer it usually goes less than 40mi a day, and rarely over 70mi a day.

Why is all that relevant? A household plug will add about 3 miles per hour of charge. A 240 line, it depends on the vehicle's efficiency and the amps, but it should put on at least 12 miles per hour of charge, but can add above 30 miles per hour of charge with reasonable amps.

I was very surprised it was even an option to use the regular household plugs. My wife usually uses her car to literally go to work and back which is less than 10 miles a day. And runs errands during weekends. Once in a while we will go to my mom's and that is about 20 miles each way. If she was to get an EV I think it would be ok to start with having it plug into the wall. With that said, I would probably be like you and have a charging station added later on once I knew what the driving pattern would be and what the need is. But, with that said, I was just was surprised that it could be done that way.

 

[redrocker652002]

Those new blazer evs are very nice looking. Much better than the Bolt.
No offense, @Kent88

I have to say, and I am not an SUV kinda guy, but they were very nice looking from the outside. I did not look in it though. I think eventually most are going to switch simply because the options and the reliability will surpass the gas powered vehicles. Not sure of cost of charging, but at 5 dollars plus a gallon, gas vehicles might just price themselves out of the market, so to speak. And no, this has nothing to do with politics, just simply a statement of electric versus gas vehicles. Also, as more hit the used market, I can see there being a huge opportunity for some to get a EV a bit less expensive than a new one.

 

[redrocker652002]

No offense taken. They better look better when they're 2 to 3 times the price!

I looked at Blazers for an evening. I just couldn't get over the price.

I completely agree with you. The new one sitting on the lot I looked at was over 50k. Ouch.

 

[Kent88]

No, I would never buy one. for the following reasons:
1.) Limited range/load
2. limited energy density.- energy density if diesel fuel for example is about 11.5 kwh/kg vs 0.25 kwh/kg for a lithium battery pack.
3. Limited life- if you get stuck in below freezing weather in the middle of nowhere, you won't be able to run the heater for very long before you deplete the charge and freeze to death.

1) this is quickly becoming a non-issue. My Bolt was on the cheaper end of the spectrum for EVs, and it has 250mi of range on a full battery. I took it on a short road trip a couple months ago and it did absolutely fine. Plenty of new EVs have higher range.

2) this feels like an extension of point 1. Not sure why an owner cares. Maybe we do and when you tell me why I'll facepalm at how obvious it was, but for now IDK.

3) hey there Texas, I'm up here living in a place that typically gets snow 4-6 months of the year. One thing you learn when you grow up in this area, is that you cut wayyyy back on unnecessary trips when the snow starts to fly. You also learn that everyone who matters is pretty forgiving if you need to cancel plans because there's a blizzard or a cold snap. The Christmas before last, we had a heckuva cold snap (did you know that cold temps also negatively impact ICE vehicles? It was pretty obvious that week) and blizzard, and my spouse and I pride ourselves on being able to visit our families on holidays. We didn't make it that year, and nobody is holding a grudge because of it.

You know what lots of people do on winter road trips around here? Wear base layers and bring along clothes you can put over them. Lots of people have emergency blankets here. Sure, there are some unfortunate souls who don't learn it soon enough, but most do. My in-laws love to ice fish, so we have clothes for when we need to sit in the freezing cold for hours and hours. I appreciate your concern for us up here, but a lot of us who have spent our lives in this terrific climate know how it goes. And the people who move here learn how to prepare for winter pretty quickly. If you want a demonstration, feel free to visit this winter when the lakes freeze over. I'll take you fishing in a slough off the Mississippi.

Oh, and you didn't say it, but I'll throw this out there: yeah, the range suffers a bit below 35°F, but I know my ICE Jeep also gets at least 3mpg less through the winter, and I don't typically leave with a full tank every morning. I do get to charge my Bolt overnight.

Anyways, thanks again for the concern.

 

[Kent88]

I was very surprised it was even an option to use the regular household plugs. My wife usually uses her car to literally go to work and back which is less than 10 miles a day. And runs errands during weekends. Once in a while we will go to my mom's and that is about 20 miles each way. If she was to get an EV I think it would be ok to start with having it plug into the wall. With that said, I would probably be like you and have a charging station added later on once I knew what the driving pattern would be and what the need is. But, with that said, I was just was surprised that it could be done that way.

One thing I've said in this thread repeatedly is that one should think about what they ask from their current vehicle before they rule out an EV.

We have a vehicle that barely leaves the tri-county area and is only loaded up after a trip to the grocery store. The Bolt is overkill for that. I did assess if I could use it for the occasional summer trip to my parents or the inlaws, and if we pack light it absolutely works. It'll work even better when a few more charging stations are installed along the route.

 

[redrocker652002]

One thing I've said in this thread repeatedly is that one should think about what they ask from their current vehicle before they rule out an EV.

We have a vehicle that barely leaves the tri-county area and is only loaded up after a trip to the grocery store. The Bolt is overkill for that. I did assess if I could use it for the occasional summer trip to my parents or the inlaws, and if we pack light it absolutely works. It'll work even better when a few more charging stations are installed along the route.

My daughter and I had this very discussion. She was pretty on point when she said that, if needed, we could stop, stretch our legs and charge up for 30 mins or so and continue on. Charging stations seem to be popping up all around us. The local mall just put in about 20 of them in the back part of the parking lot, and the local Target I think has 10 to 12 in their parking lot. Not sure about rest stops on the freeway's out in the boonies here, but they seem to be showing up more and more.

 

[Kent88]

My daughter and I had this very discussion. She was pretty on point when she said that, if needed, we could stop, stretch our legs and charge up for 30 mins or so and continue on. Charging stations seem to be popping up all around us.

I remember some of the guys in college would pile into their largest vehicle and road trip, taking turns driving/sleeping, and only stopping for fuel, who would have hated stopping for 30 minutes every few hours. They absolutely had to get there ASAP.

I think the window for average people having that attitude isn't huge. That might just be the 18-24 crowd.

You figure that highway speeds are usually 80mph or less, I can go 3 hours (240mi) on a full charge in good conditions. I don't think my family and I can go 3 hours in a vehicle non-stop right now. Mini-me's bladder is too small. So more frequently than every 3 hours I'm going to need to stop, release some fluid, maybe take in new fluid, maybe grab a snack. I can charge on a stop like that.

 

[mac_1103]

If she was to get an EV I think it would be ok to start with having it plug into the wall.

It helps to have a dedicated 20 amp circuit, or at least know what else is on the circuit. My niece just got an EV and tried to add some miles overnight in her mother's garage. But a dehumidifier was plugged in on another outlet on the same circuit so the breaker tripped. Not good, but hopefully easily avoided at your own home.

 

[Kent88]

My household current charging defaults to 8amps, but can be increased (to 12 or 15?) if you know you're on a good circuit without anything else drawing power.

 

[Agent]

I have to say, and I am not an SUV kinda guy, but they were very nice looking from the outside. I did not look in it though. I think eventually most are going to switch simply because the options and the reliability will surpass the gas powered vehicles. Not sure of cost of charging, but at 5 dollars plus a gallon, gas vehicles might just price themselves out of the market, so to speak. And no, this has nothing to do with politics, just simply a statement of electric versus gas vehicles. Also, as more hit the used market, I can see there being a huge opportunity for some to get a EV a bit less expensive than a new one.

The biggest unknown is how the used-used market is going to stabilize. Right now the average EV is 3-4yrs old, and the average ICE is 12+. As far as I can see, the EVs are all but disposable past the 10 year mark since there are but a handful of vendors who reassemble battery packs from salvage and new OEM packs are either unavailable or prohibitively expensive.

I'm a shadetree mechanic who can affordably maintain a fleet of well used ICE vehicles. I'd love to use my excess solar power for "free gas" but new EVs don't justify the cost (frankly no new cars do IMHO), and old EVs are a helpless dice roll on remaining life. Hopefully something will change about that sooner rather than later, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[whoaru99]

I was very surprised it was even an option to use the regular household plugs.

Far as I ever knew all EVs typically come with a 120V (North America, anyway) charging cord.

As others have said or alluded to, you can upgrade from there if you want faster charge but that included cord does facilitate the basic function.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

The biggest unknown is how the used-used market is going to stabilize. Right now the average EV is 3-4yrs old, and the average ICE is 12+. As far as I can see, the EVs are all but disposable past the 10 year mark since there are but a handful of vendors who reassemble battery packs from salvage and new OEM packs are either unavailable or prohibitively expensive.

I'm a shadetree mechanic who can affordably maintain a fleet of well used ICE vehicles. I'd love to use my excess solar power for "free gas" but new EVs don't justify the cost (frankly no new cars do IMHO), and old EVs are a helpless dice roll on remaining life. Hopefully something will change about that sooner rather than later, but I'm not holding my breath.

Admittedly that's a concern for me as I buy used and plan to keep cars 10+ years.

I think most modern EVs that learned the lesson about battery thermal management can get hundreds of thousands of miles without severe pack degradation. But I don't know how much of a sample size of high mileage EVs are out there (especially from anyone other than Tesla) to really know the risk.

I will say the "but the battery will be useless after 10 years!!!" battle cry does seem to be something the anti-EV folks are rallying around. I suspect that's due to all the EVs on the road that we see without buyers constantly complaining about all the OTHER dire predictions the anti-EV crowd has made for the last half decade. They need to predict future calamity that will take several more years to falsify.

 

[mac_1103]

Mini-me's bladder is too small.

Some day soon you will be very jealous of mini-me's bladder.

new EVs don't justify the cost (frankly no new cars do IMHO)

The part in parentheses is always my response when someone brings up the first part.

I'm a shadetree mechanic who can affordably maintain a fleet of well used ICE vehicles.

But you can't really "maintain" them in the strict meaning of the word. A well used old car is a well used old car, even if it's also well cared for. I've got a 19 year old vehicle that I've taken pretty good care of, but absolutely nothing about it is as good as it was new, including fuel economy. But it serves its purpose - hauling crap to the dump or recycling center, picking up stuff from the LHBS, trips to Sam's, Costco, Lowe's, etc. A comparably aged small BEV SUV that had lost half of its effective range would still be useful to me for those things.

 

[mac_1103]

"but the battery will be useless after 10 years!!!"

That's what they said about the Prius battery twenty years ago. My family has put almost 600,000 miles on 4 hybrids in the past 15 years without ever experiencing a battery issue. And since reconditioned hybrid batteries have been available at a fraction of the cost of OEM for some time now, I suspect that we will see a robust market for reconditioned full electric batteries develop in the future.