Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[Broothru]

Unless the car is doing the driving and you are just a systems monitor. That is the way I drive anymore. Reminds me a lot of flying on autopilot where you don't concern yourself with the heading and altitude hold drudgery but instead relax and take in the big picture.

Systems monitor is an excellent way to describe it. By the time I retired from flying, the job of actually ‘flying’ had devolved from stick and rudder manipulator to data input programmer.

Back when the transition from “steam gauge” systems to “glass cockpits” was happening, the transition wasn’t always smooth for aviators who were steeped in traditional methods.

Boeing aircraft (back when Boeing was influenced more by engineering rather than bean counting) were generally more intuitive in their design, as opposed to Airbus. Throughout training, and until you have more than a few months of actual operational experience, the most common refrain heard in Airbus cockpits was, “What’s the airplane doing now?”

Even after seven years of flying as Captain on the A320, I wasn’t always sure what the aircraft would do in response to my programmed inputs. Boeing, on the other hand, was like a highly skilled First Officer who would reliably do exactly what you told it to do. Just be very careful what you tell it to do.

I suspect that’s much the case with self driving cars. Casual drivers think the system is fully functional and totally responsive to all driving situations. This is simply not the case, and has repeatedly been demonstrated in accident after accident where operators have ceded all control and monitoring to algorithms that are insufficiently designed and engineered to handle the multitude of variables.

 

[Airborneguy]

Today was the first time I have gone to a Tesla service center for repairs. I have used Tesla mobile service twice for minor issues (frunk sensor and spoiler detachment). I also had a wiring harness replaced proactively while on vacation at my friend's house in Florida. His was being done and the mobile tech had an extra one with him, so he did mine at the same time. All three times I was impressed with Tesla's service. The Florida tech refused to even take a tip.

Well today was another awesome experience. I came in for to have my front upper control arms replaced. First off, the quote was $219.80 for the job. My regular mechanic laughed when I showed him Tesla's quote a month ago. He estimated (without looking at it or pricing the parts) at least $1200. I was only there about 90 minutes, and some of that time was spent BS'ing with another owner after the car was ready. It was the smoothest vehicle service I have ever experienced, by far.

While waiting, I test drove a Model Y performance. My takeaway is that it has some positive improvements over my model 3 performance, but not enough to be worth the switch just yet. I drooled over a Model X Plaid in the show room (not available for test drives). That one I fell in love with. When I can justify it, the X will most likely be my upgrade, and definitely the Plaid. I want to enjoy no car payments for a bit before jumping in again. They had two Cybertrucks as well, also unfortunately not available for test drives. An owner who was there for the wiper recall was raving about his experience with it so far.

People rip on "Tesla fanboys" but they've never experienced just how different the entire experience is. I've owned a ton of different car brands. Nothing I have had comes close.

 

[beren]

That’s pretty amazing and nothing like what the horror stories are from everybody else where parts are three months to one year out.

 

[Airborneguy]

Those days are gone. The company began prioritizing repair parts over production last year. Lots of “known” Tesla complaints are from years ago.

 

[beren]

I guess unless you have a cyber truck then that’s all the complaints I’ve heard the last few months.

 

[tracer bullet]

First off, the quote was $219.80 for the job.

I believe you, but - how is that even possible?

 

[mac_1103]

I believe you, but - how is that even possible?

Tesla subsidizes the repairs.

 

[Airborneguy]

I guess unless you have a cyber truck then that’s all the complaints I’ve heard the last few months.

The Cybertruck owner I met today was raving about it. Can you expand on these second hand complaints?

 

[Airborneguy]

I believe you, but - how is that even possible?

Amazing right? My regular mechanic - at the shop my stepfather owned for 40 years and sold to him - was flabbergasted when I showed him the quote last month (I had to delay the repaid because of my work schedule and a vacation).

The tech this morning just said, “well we’re not a normal dealer service center.” Lol

They gave me a heads up that the rear tow links are close to needing replacement. Quote: $506.

 

[beren]

The Cybertruck owner I met today was raving about it. Can you expand on these second hand complaints?

They are all raving. Even when it’s brand new and won’t charge when they get it home. Likely having to do with spending over $100,000 and it’s broken.

Here’s a quick list. I’ve noticed that most people who have problems go “it broke and I can’t use it, but I love it!” Like they are afraid to badmouth it publicly.

https://www.fastcompany.com/9110987...ems-from-rust-to-hail-damage-to-pedal-recalls



https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thr...y-4-months-and-still-no-delivery-date.326334/

Examples are all over, if you want to see them. I used to want a Tesla, they seemed amazing.

 

[Bilsch]

With so many financed hit pieces being churned out by every media org it’s hard to tell what is the truth and what is pure nostrilsnot

 

[beren]

With so many financed hit pieces being churned out by every media org it’s hard to tell what is the truth and what is pure ********.

There’s enough conspiracy theories we don’t need any more.

 

[sibelman]

conspiracy theories

C'mon. Obviously some Tesla buyers have had trouble. How that has changed over time, how it compares to other car makers' issues, could be the subject of well-formed rigorous analysis, journalistic story telling of varying accuracy, or just banter and individual experience. For example:

A couple of years ago, I had to wait for a couple of months for Chevy to produce parts to repair body damage when I was rear-ended. A friend with a crash-damaged Tesla had to wait considerably longer for his repair parts to arrive.

This pair of data points tells me nothing about the two companies or their products.

 

[mac_1103]

nostrilsnot

Is there another kind of snot?

 

[govner1]

My wife’s company has mandated that all employees, worldwide, driving company cars have an electric.
They’ve installed a level 2 charger at our home. Including the new panel for the house that came to $10k.
Her new ID-4 Pro 4wd arrives in a couple of weeks.
Somebody at corporate drank the kool-aid!

 

[PCABrewing]

My wife’s company has mandated that all employees, worldwide, driving company cars have an electric.
They’ve installed a level 2 charger at our home. Including the new panel for the house that came to $10k.
Her new ID-4 Pro 4wd arrives in a couple of weeks.
Somebody at corporate drank the kool-aid!

I would never knowingly invest in a company that makes that kind of statement.

My reason has nothing to do with EV's, it has more to do with the discretionary spend.
I have similar feelings about First Class travel and palatial corporate headquarters.

This is just my opinion.

 

[Bilsch]

Is there another kind of snot?

Yea not what I had typed but still gets the idea across I guess.

 

[mac_1103]

My reason has nothing to do with EV's, it has more to do with the discretionary spend.

I don't know... maybe they're getting a really amazing deal on the cars and the chargers, and maybe they've been getting killed paying for everybody's gas.

 

[PCABrewing]

I don't know... maybe they're getting a really amazing deal on the cars and the chargers, and maybe they've been getting killed paying for everybody's gas.

Could be I suppose.

 

[govner1]

Could be I suppose.

She already has a hybrid that gets 40+ mpg and they’re “upgrading” to a full EV when it only has 35k miles on it!
There are 7000+ employees in the US alone.
Even if they’re getting a great deal the depreciation on EV’s it appalling!
They did give a wide variety of choices.

 

[sibelman]

Maybe their business success hinges on more than just shareholder value. Being seen as responsible corporate citizens could be a good thing, even if it's inconsistent with prevailing economic and legal thought in the U.S.

 

[mac_1103]

There are 7000+ employees in the US alone.

Does every employee get a company car? Or just the ones senior enough to have a kept man at home?

 

[Bilsch]

I personally think falling battery price alone will determine adoption speed ICE to EV over all other factors in the next few years. Current price is somewhere around $109/kwh with the advent of the latest LiFePo4 technology coming out of China. By year end is expected to be in the $70 range. When ICE cars cost 2 or 3X to purchase and operate then even hard core petrol heads will reluctantly switch.

 

[PCABrewing]

Maybe their business success hinges on more than just shareholder value. Being seen as responsible corporate citizens could be a good thing, even if it's inconsistent with prevailing economic and legal thought in the U.S.

Please don't try to hang the shareholder-value banner on me, you don't know me.
Making the popular decision can mean making the wrong decision when it comes to early cycle technology.
And making a wrong decision for whatever reason can mean wasted resources and money.
As an investor I care about all waste.

Of course being a good corporate citizen means reduction of energy consumption overall, not just the choice of energy. Hopefully they did the evaluation of where they could reduce (number of vehicles) first, then the shift to best source.

My corporate experience has overwhelmingly been that first effort was elimination of cars where possible and then the remaining entitled typically do not get the choice of high-end or luxury vehicles.
And I don't think I am off base to say most EV models today do focus on luxury features and in some cases performance VS basic transportation.
Now if they workout a fleet deal with one or two manufacturers that may bring the per-vehicle average more inline.
But in this case govner1 stated that they have a broad selection so that kind of precludes fleet deals.

 

[Airborneguy]

Every car manufacturer has recalls. At least for once the Tesla gas pedal recall was an actual recall as opposed to software updates people love to “ha ha!” us about.

The second link is a UK issue. I won’t pretend to know anything about the situation there.

 

[PCABrewing]

When ICE cars cost 2 or 3X to purchase and operate then even hard core petrol heads will reluctantly switch.

I agree with that.
The current premium paid is way too high.
Don't you think there would be a significant shift even at 1 - 1.5X.

 

[Airborneguy]

Even with the ridiculous comparisons hardcore ICE’ers try to make, they’re already in the 1:1 or even cheaper range. In most states you can get a Model 3 in low 30’s.

 

[Bilsch]

I agree with that.
The current premium paid is way too high.
Don't you think there would be a significant shift even at 1 - 1.5X.

With fuel and maintenance total ownership cost passed parity a while ago. Sadly there are a lot of hard core anti EV people out there for whom it will take a rather large savings to finally convince. But that is coming and fast.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

With fuel and maintenance total ownership cost passed parity a while ago. Sadly there are a lot of hard core anti EV people out there for whom it will take a rather large savings to finally convince. But that is coming and fast.

What's the cost comparison including "fueling" for those who can't charge at home? @Airborneguy any data? I know you've highlighted home charging being a huge advantage for user experience. I don't know how public charging compares cost wise. I've heard it's in the 3x realm.

 

[Bilsch]

What's the cost comparison including "fueling" for those who can't charge at home? @Airborneguy any data? I know you've highlighted home charging being a huge advantage for user experience. I don't know how public charging compares cost wise. I've heard it's in the 3x realm.

Might be tricky to get a good idea on charging costs in the wild since there are so many choices of electrons anymore from free at certain malls and stores to higher cost at rapid chargers. Honestly I haven't seen lifetime cost data from only fast charging but yes it has to be more. However even at supercharger prices it's still only 8 cents a mile for fuel which compares to only the most efficient gas cars. Then factor in practically non existent maintenance for the EV an the cost case for ICE is a tough sell.

The major takeaway for me though is that battery costs have fallen by 50% in just 2 years and continue to drop. The price of engines has not come down so it's not hard to see the writing on the wall.