poll: Cascadian Dark Ale/Black IPA - proper name

[babalu87]

American Brown Ales can be drier with very pronounced hop flavor. So there already is a category, American Brown.

No
American Brown Ales are
BROWN

Imperial Black Ales are
BLACK

 

[carnevoodoo]

No
American Brown Ales are
BROWN

Imperial Black Ales are
BLACK

But not all of them. I've had a few dark brown IBAs.

 

[a10t2]

I voted "American Dark Ale", but I think it should be "American Black Ale". "Dark", to my mind, isn't sufficiently differentiated from "Brown".

 

[Julohan]

I voted Black IPA, since that is close to what I like to call it India Dark Ale. I guess I could had voted for American Dark Ale.

 

[bovineblitz]

I really don't like anything with "India" or "Pale " in it. The IPA is a historical style and this new dark ale doesn't have anything to do with the historical style. And it's also not pale so any name with pale is just ridiculous. I voted for American Dark Ale which is consistent with the other styles like American Pale Ale, American IPA, American Porter, American Stout and American Strong Ale.

IMO it has a lot to do with the IPA. It's the daughter of the IPA and honestly, how would you describe it to somebody? The easiest way is to say "it's got the hop profile of an IPA with a bit of roastiness"

 

[AnOldUR]

IMO it has a lot to do with the IPA. It's the daughter of the IPA and honestly, how would you describe it to somebody? The easiest way is to say "it's got the hop profile of an IPA with a bit of roastiness"

I'd say, "It's got the hint of roasted malt of a Schwarzbier with a boat load of American hops." Doesn't mean I want to see Schwarz in it's name. Son of Schwarz?

 

[homebeerbrewer]

...and we're going to have to agree to disagree on the whole legitimacy of Cascadia until the cartographers of the world finally lay this and other issues to rest in the impending geographic war 0f 2013.

meh, the world is gonna end in 2012 anyway.

 

[Shooter]

meh, the world is gonna end in 2012 anyway.

Balderdash! Just like the Y2K doomsayers my friend, you are too eager to believe the false prophets. The "national" geographic wars on the other hand...well, you can take that one to the bank!

 

[jldc]

I really don't like anything with "India" or "Pale " in it. The IPA is a historical style and this new dark ale doesn't have anything to do with the historical style. And it's also not pale so any name with pale is just ridiculous. I voted for American Dark Ale which is consistent with the other styles like American Pale Ale, American IPA, American Porter, American Stout and American Strong Ale.

These are pretty much my thoughts as well. I don't mind the "India" as much as "Pale" but I prefer "American" plus "Dark" or "Black" as the best descriptor.

 

[mithion]

I was reading another thread and people seemed to concur that the SRM for the style should be 30+. So maybe "American Dark Ale" isn't precise enough. Maybe it should be "American Black Ale"?

 

[DKershner]

Hmm, I never really even thought about the name Cascadian and hop implications.

It's really not a hop implication, more just that the hop and the beer were both named after a mountain range/region.

My vote may be a bit biased because I can see the cascades out my window.

 

[olllllo]

India Ink is black.

 

[Shooter]

India Ink is black.

Aha, a GOOD point sir!!

 

[AnOldUR]

India Ink is black.

Would you mash that or may be a late boil addition?

 

[olllllo]

Would you mash that or may be a late boil addition?

Depends on whether you want a black tongue.

In a somewhat serious practical example lets look at the "popularized by" argument.

One of the "latest" styles (historically speaking) in the BJCP catalog is American Light Lager circa 1972.

Did they name it after the original brewer, Rheingold?
The brewery that popularized it, Miller?
The city the brewery was in, Milwaukee?
The region the brewery was in, the MidWest?
THE GUY that popularized it Rodney Dangerfield?
Where the corn was sourced?

So none of those:
Not Rheingoldian Light Lager.
Not Miller Light (Lite) Lager.
Not Milwaukeean Light Lager.
Not MidWestern, RustBelt, Great Lakes, light lager.
Not TV Marketing Lager, Not Nebraska Corn Lager.
Not Rodney, not Lunchbucket, not Blue Collar, no, no, no, not.

 

[Haputanlas]

India Black Ale seems the most logical as it contains all the information needed to know what you are drinking.

I agree with this line of thought, there is nothing in Cascadian Dark Ale that implies a high hop rate. It just sounds like a standard dark ale.

I say India Black Ale, or just keep with the Black IPA. They both the get the entire point across.

 

[cheezydemon3]

The poll is skewed.

People think CDA is winning.

The people who want anything but are winning. Black IPA and American Dark can be combined as far as I am concerned.

 

[northernlad]

American Dark Black IPA?

 

[skiersteve3]

not too sure, but my first home brew batch was one of these, turned out pretty good too!

 

[DKershner]

In a somewhat serious practical example lets look at the "popularized by" argument.

American light lager is a good example of where the BJCP doesn't name a beer after the place it was invented/popularized, but there are beers'o'plenty where they have named it after that region.

Munich, Dortmund, Dusseldorf, Berlin, Koeln, and California all come to mind.

 

[fred_zepp]

The Tech Support / Accounting Services part.

I nearly spit my beer all over the screen!

 

[Shooter]

It's really not a hop implication, more just that the hop and the beer were both named after a mountain range/region.

My vote may be a bit biased because I can see the cascades out my window.

Wait a minute, Cascadian, Cascade Hops, Cascade Mountains, you mean there's a relationship here somewhere?!?!? I figured it was just coincidence that they all had similar names. Man, now my head is spinning!

 

[olllllo]

American light lager is a good example of where the BJCP doesn't name a beer after the place it was invented/popularized, but there are beers'o'plenty where they have named it after that region.

Munich, Dortmund, Dusseldorf, Berlin, Koeln, and California all come to mind.

Exactly. Lets look at the youngest one there.
Cali-common. Mid 1850's to mid 1950's

Lets all agree to revisit the name in about 75 years.

 

[bovineblitz]

I was reading another thread and people seemed to concur that the SRM for the style should be 30+. So maybe "American Dark Ale" isn't precise enough. Maybe it should be "American Black Ale"?

Yeah I shoulda put that in the poll. Also should've added 'India Black Ale'

Can't change it now, too many votes

 

[AnOldUR]

Munich, Dortmund, Dusseldorf, Berlin, Koeln, and California all come to mind.

How many of these names/styles pre-date the BJCP?

 

[DKershner]

Exactly. Lets look at the youngest one there.
Cali-common. Mid 1850's to mid 1950's

Lets all agree to revisit the name in about 75 years.

Well, right, but the BJCP itself is only 25 years old, which means nearly 100% of the names are just taken from what is the most popular way to say something. For the time being, the brewers seem to be split on CDA or BIPA from what I have seen.

I really think they put very little effort towards the name, and a lot of time spent drinking the beer and describing it, which is certainly how I would do it too.

 

[DKershner]

How many of these names/styles pre-date the BJCP?

I think all the styles on the BJCP predate it...though not 100% on that. What has been added in the past 25 years?

If Jeep (olllllo) was right about saying that American Light Lager was the latest, we may be looking at the first addition since the BJCP has been around, which means that all precedent is sort of out the window...

 

[klyph]

Cascadian Northwest American New England Dark Brown Black Mild Roast Triple Hops Ice Brewed Genuine Draft King/Champagne of Beers India Pale Ale

 

[Shooter]

cascadian northwest american new england dark brown black mild roast triple hops ice brewed genuine draft king/champagne of beers india pale ale

ftw!!!

 

[remilard]

I think all the styles on the BJCP predate it...though not 100% on that. What has been added in the past 25 years?

Blond Ale, American Wheat (probably), American Rye (certainly), IIPA, American Amber Ale, American Brown Ale, American Stout,.

 

[DKershner]

Blond Ale, American Wheat (probably), American Rye (certainly), IIPA, American Amber Ale, American Brown Ale, American Stout,.

Well, then. That is a pattern...

 

[olllllo]

I said one of.... I picked the undisputedly most popular style and so remilard astutely took the punchline of my joke.


AMERICA **** YAH.

 

[olllllo]

I said one of.... I picked the undisputedly most popular style and so remilard astutely took the punchline of my joke.


AMERICA **** YAH.

 

[DKershner]

AMERICA **** YAH.

Nice.

Although, did any of the above mentioned styles have any marketing that pushed them as something other than just 'brown' or 'lite lager'? Miller lite may have been the first, but even they say some crap on the bottom of the can like 'premium pilsner lager' or something like that. Well, now it is triple hopped, but before...

I would suppose the big IPA would've been split between double and imperial...but they did choose one of those.

 

[bovineblitz]

You know, thinking about it a little more, I don't like the name 'American Black Ale' or 'American Dark Ale'. Typically the word American is added on to differentiate the style from one that already exists. American Pale Ale is a take on the classic Pale Ale. Same with the other American styles, even the BMC style lager.

There is no pre-existing black or dark ale, so I don't think it makes sense to label it this way.

 

[olllllo]

Why do you hate America/the troops?


</sarcasm>

 

[klyph]

You know, thinking about it a little more, I don't like the name 'American Black Ale' or 'American Dark Ale'.

For a second there I thought you were going to propose African American Ale.

 

[AnOldUR]

There is no pre-existing black or dark ale, so I don't think it makes sense to label it this way.

Schwarzbier (Black Beer) is pretty close.

 

[bovineblitz]

Schwarzbier (Black Beer) is pretty close.

yeah but it's a lager

 

[homebeerbrewer]

For a second there I thought you were going to propose African American Ale.

I had beer coming out of my nose when I read that...

Balderdash! Just like the Y2K doomsayers my friend, you are too eager to believe the false prophets. The "national" geographic wars on the other hand...well, you can take that one to the bank!

Ok, we'll see. I'm still brewing a $h!t load of beer for the "End of the World" party. Maybe it'll just turn out to be a Christmas party...