Please Explain: Dark Malt Powder

[TheFreeman]

Hi,

Can someone please explain if this is the same as Dry Malt Extract. Also what does Dark mean please?

Would this be good for Stouts to replace sugars?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Beer is made from malted barley.

Malt extract is the sugar product from malted barley, processed so you don't need a "mash" step.

Malt extract comes in two basic forms, liquid (LME - Liquid Malt Extract) and dry powder (DME - Dry Malt Extract).

Barley comes in many different forms to achieve different flavors, and so the extract comes in a [lesser] variety as well.

"Darker" malts are more highly kilned/baked to achieve a darker color and usually a stronger flavor -- think pilsner vs stout.

I would not modify an extract recipe without more experience. Substituting DME for sugar could lead to an overly malty or sweet beer.

 

[FatDragon]

This is dark DME (dry malt extract). Dark in that it's meant to produce a dark roasty beer like a stout or porter. It doesn't look super dark in the picture because even the darkest beers typically only include 10-15% dark grains, but that relatively small percentage of the total grain contributes a ton of color. In other words, when this DME is mixed with water, it will be coffee-black, even though the extract itself is only the color of cocoa powder.

Using DME to replace some or all of the sugar in a kit and kilo recipe kit is typically a good move unless you're aiming for a dry, light tasting brew, but it's best to use pale, light, or extra light DME. The specialty malt profile for the recipe (dark, roasty, caramelly, etc) is already present in the base extract kit, so adding more specialty DME like this would be likely to overdo it. Dark DME would be more suited to making your own all-extract porter or stout recipe than adding to a kit, unless you were trying to turn a stout kit into an imperial stout or something like that.

 

[Kickass]

Any time you can replace table/cane sugar with maltose, sugar from barely, the better. Unless you have a very specific reason for using table sugar. I used DME a couple times but found it more enjoyable to steep dark grains of my choosing. Are you familiar with steeping grains?

 

[TheFreeman]

Beer is made from malted barley.

Malt extract is the sugar product from malted barley, processed so you don't need a "mash" step.

Malt extract comes in two basic forms, liquid (LME - Liquid Malt Extract) and dry powder (DME - Dry Malt Extract).

Barley comes in many different forms to achieve different flavors, and so the extract comes in a [lesser] variety as well.

"Darker" malts are more highly kilned/baked to achieve a darker color and usually a stronger flavor -- think pilsner vs stout.

I would not modify an extract recipe without more experience. Substituting DME for sugar could lead to an overly malty or sweet beer.

Thanks for your input, I am no expert but I researched this and a book that I am reading also suggests this. Sugar can always be substituted with Light Malt Extract, the reason I was asking is since its dark.

 

[TheFreeman]

This is dark DME (dry malt extract). Dark in that it's meant to produce a dark roasty beer like a stout or porter. It doesn't look super dark in the picture because even the darkest beers typically only include 10-15% dark grains, but that relatively small percentage of the total grain contributes a ton of color. In other words, when this DME is mixed with water, it will be coffee-black, even though the extract itself is only the color of cocoa powder.

Using DME to replace some or all of the sugar in a kit and kilo recipe kit is typically a good move unless you're aiming for a dry, light tasting brew, but it's best to use pale, light, or extra light DME. The specialty malt profile for the recipe (dark, roasty, caramelly, etc) is already present in the base extract kit, so adding more specialty DME like this would be likely to overdo it. Dark DME would be more suited to making your own all-extract porter or stout recipe than adding to a kit, unless you were trying to turn a stout kit into an imperial stout or something like that.

Ok so I will cancel my Dark DME from my order. I was only considering it since its color is not that dark, but since you are saying it will turn coffee dark that means some specialty grains might overpower the beer.

 

[TheFreeman]

Would this be good instead? Since DARK DME is not suggested

 

[chickypad]

Thanks for your input, I am no expert but I researched this and a book that I am reading also suggests this. Sugar can always be substituted with Light Malt Extract, the reason I was asking is since its dark.

That would be a better sub for sugar than the dark DME if you're going to do it, but it's not always a good idea. In something like a Belgian tripel, or say a big DIPA, the sugar is a crucial part of the recipe. What is your recipe?

 

[TheFreeman]

That would be a better sub for sugar than the dark DME if you're going to do it, but it's not always a good idea. In something like a Belgian tripel, or say a big DIPA, the sugar is a crucial part of the recipe. What is your recipe?

I am making the Coopers Irish Stout Kit, I have tried 2 other kits, this is my third. I am to create a kit with more body and more flavor.

I am planning to start mini-mash/full mash soon. But would love to brew a stout without to much hassel.

Do you think this Extra Light DME is good for a stout? Since it states in description it mainly for Lagers and Pilsner. I am not to worried about the "character" intended by the kit. All I want to avoid is something that tastes horrible.

 

[eetu]

It's basically the same as adding more base malt. And by adding more base malt, you will get a heavier beer with more alcohol. It won't give you much flavor at all, especially in a stout recipe.

If you want more flavor and body, you could cut the batch size a bit and also add a slight amount of that dme. Don't overdo it. If the recipe says 5gal, go for 4gal and maybe a pound of extract. Or something like that.

 

[TheFreeman]

It's basically the same as adding more base malt. And by adding more base malt, you will get a heavier beer with more alcohol. It won't give you much flavor at all, especially in a stout recipe.

If you want more flavor and body, you could cut the batch size a bit and also add a slight amount of that dme. Don't overdo it. If the recipe says 5gal, go for 4gal and maybe a pound of extract. Or something like that.

So basically the recipe calls for 23L - I was going to brew it at 18L. It also asks for 1KG of sugar so was going to substitute that with 1KG Extra Light Malt Extract. What do you think?

 

[chickypad]

Sounds like what Dragon mentioned above as a kit and kilo kit - i.e. they have you add a KG of sugar to cheaply boost up the alcohol rather than using the more expensive malt extract. In that case, and especially since you are looking for more body, replacing the kilo of sugar with a kilo of the light DME is the thing to do. Presumably they should have the specialty malts already in there to give it the stout characteristics.

In general I probably would select a higher gravity recipe than just brewing a recipe with less water, but you'll probably be okay in this case with that particular kit. In the future you might just want to pick a higher gravity kit.

 

[FatDragon]

Extra light DME in a stout kit like that should work perfectly to boost body and flavor. It won't increase the roasty flavors (you could steep some extra roasted barley or chocolate malt for that, or use a mix of dark and light DME), but it will increase body and maltiness as compared to doing the brew with table sugar. You could also add a bit of extra extract (or combination of extract and sugar), say 1.5-2kg rather than 1kg, if you want to give the beer an extra boost, though at that point an experienced brewer would probably add some dark grains for steeping and some extra hops to the boil to balance out the higher gravity.

Basically, adding simple sugar dries out the beer for higher alcohol content but less body and flavor.
Adding extract will leave you with a beer that's not as dry and has more body and malt flavor but lower ABV.

 

[TheFreeman]

Sounds like what Dragon mentioned above as a kit and kilo kit - i.e. they have you add a KG of sugar to cheaply boost up the alcohol rather than using the more expensive malt extract. In that case, and especially since you are looking for more body, replacing the kilo of sugar with a kilo of the light DME is the thing to do. Presumably they should have the specialty malts already in there to give it the stout characteristics.

In general I probably would select a higher gravity recipe than just brewing a recipe with less water, but you'll probably be okay in this case with that particular kit. In the future you might just want to pick a higher gravity kit.

Thanks for the advice, regarding the the DME. Since this is EXTRA Light and not just Light will it still do?

 

[TheFreeman]

Extra light DME in a stout kit like that should work perfectly to boost body and flavor. It won't increase the roasty flavors (you could steep some extra roasted barley or chocolate malt for that, or use a mix of dark and light DME), but it will increase body and maltiness as compared to doing the brew with table sugar. You could also add a bit of extra extract (or combination of extract and sugar), say 1.5-2kg rather than 1kg, if you want to give the beer an extra boost, though at that point an experienced brewer would probably add some dark grains for steeping and some extra hops to the boil to balance out the higher gravity.

Basically, adding simple sugar dries out the beer for higher alcohol content but less body and flavor.
Adding extract will leave you with a beer that's not as dry and has more body and malt flavor but lower ABV.

Thanks, so basically I will add 1KG DME with 18L(Instead of 23L) and maybe 100-200g of sugar. I have bought some hops to experiment but I do not know which are best with this stout.

I Bought Lemondrop hops 100g and Styrian Golding hops 30g.

I assume the lemondrop are not good for Stout but bought them in advance as I want to try a beer with them. Maybe I can use the Golding. Also do you see any issue since this is EXTRA Light DME and not Light DME?

 

[eetu]

Just go for it. There's no reason to tinker endlessly with an extract recipe and that looks good enough to try. Styrian Goldings would certainly work. If you are doing just a quick boil, I would throw all 30g in there. Should be ok. No issue with the DME.

 

[TheFreeman]

Just go for it. There's no reason to tinker endlessly with an extract recipe and that looks good enough to try. Styrian Goldings would certainly work. If you are doing just a quick boil, I would throw all 30g in there. Should be ok. No issue with the DME.

haha will follow your advice will let you know how it turns out!

 

[kh54s10]

IMO, it is better, when just beginning, to select a kit that is the style of beer that you want. If you want a darker heavier beer, look around and find one. Just adding extract or sugar without knowing the effects is likely to throw the beer out of balance. Maybe even make it undrinkable.

Read a lot of recipes and try to determine the differences and what effects the differences make. When I started adjusting recipes I would take a proven recipe and make a small change to make it something I might like. For instance I might take a brown ale and add just a little rye malt to it to make a brown rye ale. You can make an educated guess on how much rye will make a difference if you look at recipes that include rye. It also helps to use a recipe building software so the you can see if the beer is staying in range. Brewer's Friend is popular.

For instance if you add the extra light dme to a recipe you will end up with a slightly more malty beer that has a higher alcohol by volume. But if you didn't also change the hop schedule it may end up being cloyingly sweet.

For your 30 grams of hops. Without knowing the recipe, just tossing in all the hops could make the beer extremely bitter. If you put them in the boil for 60 minutes they will contribute mostly to bitterness. If you put them in at the end of the boil they will contribute mostly to flavor and aroma.

 

[Kickass]

Brewing software is such a valuable tool. Beersmith seems to be one of the most popular but I'm cheap and lazy and found that brewtoad.com has been more than effective.

These do all the tidious calculations for you. They'll give you a good idea of alcohol, color, bitterness, and a few other data points that are very helpful.