Using Inverted sugar instead of Caramel Malt in English ales

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regizerro

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I've heard/read on internet couple of times that using Inverted sugar #2 is a better option for English ales (like bitter) than using Caramel malt.

So I am trying to understand this statement better. Does anyone here has enough knowledge to explain what is the difference between Inverted Sugar and C-malt? How does replacing the malt with Sugar affect the final beer and why.
 
Flavor for one, but more importantly fermentability. Invert is all fructose and glucose. 100% fermentable, ferments dry. C-malt provides more complex carbohydrates such as maltose and dextrins. Less fermentable than base malts, leaves body and sweetness.

It's not a 'better than' thing, it's using each in its place and often together in an appropriate ratio to arrive at your goal.
 
Invert will not replace crystal malt or vice versa. Sugar was used in British beers long before crystal malt existed.

Can I suggest you replace some crystal in your recipe with an equal weight of light or dark Muscovado sugar and judge for yourself. Few British beers have 5% or more crystal malt while 15% invert sugar wasn't altogether unusual. Sugar is usually added to the boil and will attenuate more than malt. I do not find Invert sugar to thin the beer, while it will result in stronger beer.
 
All crystal malts are caramel (type) malts, made from sprouted barley, but not all caramel malts are crystal malts. Crystal, generally produced in rotating drum roaster, is of even consistancy with all starch converted to sugars. Caramal malt can be produced in a heated grain bed, at lower temperatures, where the moister grain, near centre becomes crystal, while the outer drier malt gets part roasted.
Confusingly, Belgian (Dingemans) & American (Briess, Weyermann), call their crystal malts 'caramel malt'.

As Cire pointed out, British beers were around long before crystal malt existed. But so was (true) caramel malt.

For British golden ale, including sugar can help reach the lowish FG for that style, but you'd maybe also do saccharification mash at slightly lower temperature, to produce mostly fermentable sugars (especially, if not adding any sugar).

While for British strong ale, addidion of sugar (or LME) can help reach a high SG target (up to 1.088). But you'd then want a warmer mash, producing more unferrmentable sugars, to get the styles higher FG (or add dextrin malt).

Quickly looking through Wheelers British Real Ale book (3rd ed). Of the 16 bitters listed, eight include table sugar, at between 5% and 15%; seven include crystal malt; while four include neither.
 
Invert will not replace crystal malt or vice versa. Sugar was used in British beers long before crystal malt existed.

Can I suggest you replace some crystal in your recipe with an equal weight of light or dark Muscovado sugar and judge for yourself. Few British beers have 5% or more crystal malt while 15% invert sugar wasn't altogether unusual. Sugar is usually added to the boil and will attenuate more than malt. I do not find Invert sugar to thin the beer, while it will result in stronger beer.
Can muscavado just be added to the boil?

Ive tried playing around with sugar in bitters etc. I generally prefer just mashing low, and using very small amounts of dark crystal in my bitters and milds ( i dont like beers with a lot of crystal ).

I tried to invert sugar but not sure i did it right, and couldn't pick a difference, so went back to just mashing low, and using very small amounts of dark crystal ( 1%ish )

At what percentage of dark sugar like Muscavado do you need to adjust mash temps? As in, if 10% Muscavado is added, should the mash temp be higher to account for the muscavado??
 
Graham Wheeler always used Muscovado when the recipe could take it, he reckoned it was mostly invert due to the process used to make it. Yes it can go directly into the boil, usually by homebrewers in the last half hour.

When Graham wrote his books it wasn't possible for homebrewers to get commercial invert, so he would often replace it in his recipes with table sugar and black malt. Now Ragus invert is in such low demand, it is only made to order from brewers, but there was a short window, now closed, when some of us managed to buy invert sugar by Ragus.

Don't worry about mash temperature reduction if you use sugar at normal levels. The beer will be fine, the extra alcohol compensates for the lower gravity, both are relatively minimal.
 
All crystal malts are caramel (type) malts, made from sprouted barley, but not all caramel malts are crystal malts. Crystal, generally produced in rotating drum roaster, is of even consistancy with all starch converted to sugars. Caramal malt can be produced in a heated grain bed, at lower temperatures, where the moister grain, near centre becomes crystal, while the outer drier malt gets part roasted.
Confusingly, Belgian (Dingemans) & American (Briess, Weyermann), call their crystal malts 'caramel malt'.

As Cire pointed out, British beers were around long before crystal malt existed. But so was (true) caramel malt.

For British golden ale, including sugar can help reach the lowish FG for that style, but you'd maybe also do saccharification mash at slightly lower temperature, to produce mostly fermentable sugars (especially, if not adding any sugar).

While for British strong ale, addidion of sugar (or LME) can help reach a high SG target (up to 1.088). But you'd then want a warmer mash, producing more unferrmentable sugars, to get the styles higher FG (or add dextrin malt).

Quickly looking through Wheelers British Real Ale book (3rd ed). Of the 16 bitters listed, eight include table sugar, at between 5% and 15%; seven include crystal malt; while four include neither.
Most of the crystal available is not fully converted. There have been excessive experiments here in this forum showing this is true for all British crystal tested.

The general consensus seems to be that the darker the crystal, the lower the amount of unconverted starch inside.
 

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