plastic cooler as mash tun -HBS vs hardware store

[toxdoc49]

I looked for some discussion on the forum and could not find one; hopefully this is just a short thread. I see equipment from home brew suppliers for cooler type mash tun/HLT, these are pretty much all set up to use. The are also more expensive. Then there are the coolers from Home Depot and such, which I have seen in many set ups. Does anyone think that there is any real difference in insulating ability/capacity /durability between the coolers offered by home brew supply houses vs those you can get in the big hardware stores. Cost difference is of course one, I realize that. DIY setup is not too hard for store bought coolers. I just wondered if it was worth the difference in price, besides the convenience factor of getting them already set up. Personally I would rather use stainless steel vessels but the plastic is cheaper. I say that mainly because I know the preservative chemicals that are put into plastic to keep it from going bad, and concerned about leaching into the hot mash and such.

 

[IslandLizard]

The cooler type mash tuns in the homebrew stores or online are exactly the same ones you find in the hardware stores.

Most LHBS sell the 10 gallon round ones. I prefer the rectangular ones, easier to stir, IMO. It takes only a a little handiness to mount the bulkhead, and check the seal for no leaks. You may save quite some $$ in the process.

Most cooler are made from food grade materials, so they are perfectly fine for use as a mash tun.

Stainless mash tuns need to be well insulated. Plastic coolers are fine as is, but in cold weather benefit from a blanket or sleeping bag cover.

Whether you need another 'HLT' cooler to store hot water depends on your process, I use a spare SS kettle, and heat my sparge water ~20' before the mash is done. I don't fly sparge, just batch sparge 2x with equal volumes. Easy peasy.

Here's the inside of my 52 qt Coleman Extreme mash tun, manifold is shown upside down:

 

[kh54s10]

I also believe the coolers that homebrew stores sell are no different than any other store. If you are not DIY savvy one of them might fit the bill. If you are comfortable in DIY you can save a lot of money.

I went with a 10 gallon Rubbemaid water cooler. Bought a cooler valve assembly from Northern Brewer, a 3/4" x 12" water heater supply line for the stainless steel braid, a hose clamp and 2 nylon nuts and bolts to close the end. About $65 - $70 total about 7 years ago. The kit is $170 at Northern Brewer and is also out of stock right now.

 

[IslandLizard]

I wouldn't buy anything from NB though...

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

As others have said the coolers are the same. I have read some info on line that the coolers are not made for hot liquids, just cold. I however use one and have not tasted any off flavors or developed any tumors yet.
I would however recommend that you purchase the True bulkhead from Bobby at brewhardware.com. I'm in no way affiliated with Bobby or his shop but these bulkheads are the best i have bought. They are 100 times better than the washer/coupler nipple options out there

 

[toxdoc49]

I appreciate everyone's responses to my questions. I needed some additional things to make all grain brewing easier and I will take the advice! And save some $ too.

 

[toxdoc49]

I also believe the coolers that homebrew stores sell are no different than any other store. If you are not DIY savvy one of them might fit the bill. If you are comfortable in DIY you can save a lot of money.

I went with a 10 gallon Rubbemaid water cooler. Bought a cooler valve assembly from Northern Brewer, a 3/4" x 12" water heater supply line for the stainless steel braid, a hose clamp and 2 nylon nuts and bolts to close the end. About $65 - $70 total about 7 years ago. The kit is $170 at Northern Brewer and is also out of stock right now.

Thank you. I'm curious about the kind of tubing to get. It should be heat resistant but other than that can you just pick it up at the hardware store also? I guess the water heater supply line takes care of that problem. Just wondered if the tubing had to be food grade also.

 

[toxdoc49]

The cooler type mash tuns in the homebrew stores or online are exactly the same ones you find in the hardware stores.

Most LHBS sell the 10 gallon round ones. I prefer the rectangular ones, easier to stir, IMO. It takes only a a little handiness to mount the bulkhead, and check the seal for no leaks. You may save quite some $$ in the process.

Most cooler are made from food grade materials, so they are perfectly fine for use as a mash tun.

Stainless mash tuns need to be well insulated. Plastic coolers are fine as is, but in cold weather benefit from a blanket or sleeping bag cover.

Whether you need another 'HLT' cooler to store hot water depends on your process, I use a spare SS kettle, and heat my sparge water ~20' before the mash is done. I don't fly sparge, just batch sparge 2x with equal volumes. Easy peasy.

Here's the inside of my 52 qt Coleman Extreme mash tun, manifold is shown upside down:

View attachment 614103 View attachment 614104

I've read that people like the rectangular coolers better especially for sparging. If I may, is the pipe assembly at the bottom functioning as a sieve for the grain? I'd likely be using a bag for mashing otherwise, thanks

 

[IslandLizard]

Thank you. I'm curious about the kind of tubing to get. It should be heat resistant

For anything touching your hot wort you should use silicone tubing (hose). The thick-walled 1/2" ID / 3/4"OD tubing (wall thickness 1/8") is most useful for that.

On the cold side you can use regular vinyl tubing for short exposures (like during racking and transfers).

 

[IslandLizard]

I've read that people like the rectangular coolers better especially for sparging. If I may, is the pipe assembly at the bottom functioning as a sieve for the grain? I'd likely be using a bag for mashing otherwise, thanks

The pipe manifold is made from 1/2" CPVC (it's potable and hot water grade). The slits are on the bottom during use. Yes, that's the filter. There are other methods to filter, like a stainless braid, Bazooka Tube, copper pipe with holes or slits, etc.

If you use a BIAB bag inside the cooler, that's your filter, you only need a bulkhead and something to prevent the bag from plugging up the drain, like a stainless braid, a Bazooka tube, etc.

Personally, I hate stirring inside bags, they tend to wrap around the paddle/slotted (or perforated) spoon.

 

[kh54s10]

I've read that people like the rectangular coolers better especially for sparging. If I may, is the pipe assembly at the bottom functioning as a sieve for the grain? I'd likely be using a bag for mashing otherwise, thanks

I have never used a rectangular one but I truly like that my round cooler has no corners that would make stirring the grain a little more difficult. If you are going to use a bag, why not just do BIAB where you mash in your boil kettle?

For anything touching your hot wort you should use silicone tubing (hose). The thick-walled 1/2" ID / 3/4"OD tubing (wall thickness 1/8") is most useful for that.

On the cold side you can use regular vinyl tubing for short exposures (like during racking and transfers).

I would be willing to bet that far more people use vinyl tubing on both the hot and the cold than silicone......
I am beginning to use silicone everywhere because it is not so stiff more than heat or cold.

 

[IslandLizard]

I have never used a rectangular one but I truly like that my round cooler has no corners that would make stirring the grain a little more difficult.

The corners have never been a problem, but I use a large perforated 'kitchen' spoon or a wooden stir paddle. There's a lot of space to maneuver, which I like, as it's easy to bring mash from the bottom up to the top for thorough mixing, as if it were cement in a mixing trough, not in a bucket.

If anything, for most 5.5 gallon batches, due to the larger surface, the grain bed is a bit shallow and I need to vorlauf 2x to get clear wort. I pour the vorlauf on top of the perforated aluminum foil 'cover' I have lying on top of the grain bed. I know I shouldn't use Al foil, but haven't found anything better yet. I still need to cut a true 'floating' lid from 3/4" rigid foam, stuck inside a plastic bag.

 

[kh54s10]

I pour the vorlauf on top of the perforated aluminum foil 'cover' I have lying on top of the grain bed. I know I shouldn't use Al foil, but haven't found anything better yet. I still need to cut a true 'floating' lid from 3/4" rigid foam, stuck inside a plastic bag.

I do not worry about stuff "leaching" out due to hot wort, but I would probably rate the plastic bag an equal hazard to aluminum foil.

 

[toxdoc49]

The cooler type mash tuns in the homebrew stores or online are exactly the same ones you find in the hardware stores.

Most LHBS sell the 10 gallon round ones. I prefer the rectangular ones, easier to stir, IMO. It takes only a a little handiness to mount the bulkhead, and check the seal for no leaks. You may save quite some $$ in the process.

Most cooler are made from food grade materials, so they are perfectly fine for use as a mash tun.

Stainless mash tuns need to be well insulated. Plastic coolers are fine as is, but in cold weather benefit from a blanket or sleeping bag cover.

Whether you need another 'HLT' cooler to store hot water depends on your process, I use a spare SS kettle, and heat my sparge water ~20' before the mash is done. I don't fly sparge, just batch sparge 2x with equal volumes. Easy peasy.

Here's the inside of my 52 qt Coleman Extreme mash tun, manifold is shown upside down:

View attachment 614103 View attachment 614104

can you tell me the diameter of the cuts you made in the pipe? hacksaw or Dremel? I can see how that would be effective as a strainer

 

[IslandLizard]

can you tell me the diameter of the cuts you made in the pipe? hacksaw or Dremel? I can see how that would be effective as a strainer

I actually used a 'thin plywood' blade in my circular saw.
It's hardened steel with small teeth for a smooth cut finish through veneered surfaces. Anything I had with carbide tips had a kerf that's much too wide (~1/8"). Even the cuts I got are a little wider than I had intended.

A hacksaw blade should work fine or even better since they're narrower, but the slits won't be as parallel. Not that it matters to liquids.
A Dremel cut-off blade is likely too narrow.

I had grabbed the design from another post on HBT that used the similar, but larger, 70 qt cooler, and adapted the measurements.
There's no glue, everything is friction fit. I have had to dig into the spent grain heep a few times to find small pieces.
Note the short piece of 1/2" thick walled silicone tubing between the manifold exit and the short CPVC end that fits perfectly inside the bulkhead tube.

The cooler was ~$25 from Sears, back in 2013.
The 10' piece of CPVC tubing, bag of T's and other fittings was around $8 at Lowes or HD.
Bulkhead ~$15 IIRC, probably from Bargain Fittings. Get the large flat silicone washer and the SS backup washer.

I needed to use some silicone to seal the bulkhead on the inside. Aquarium silicone is recommended as it is food safe. The cooler's drain port is slightly angled downward and it wouldn't seal with just the silicone washer.
I've had to redo that area a few times over the years, using more silicone, as I keep/kept stepping on the valve/bulkhead assembly. I did the stepping on valve trick one time too many on a repurposed bottling bucket full with Starsan... Where is all that 'water' coming from?​

The valve I had spare from my kettle, which received a well deserved 3-piece valve.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Jmo, a cooler is a cooler is a cooler, no need to overthink it imo.

I linked below a super simple cheap MT that works great! Perhaps you already have a cooler you could repurpose.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/ten-minute-cooler-mash-tun-conversion.125108/

 

[Shawnanigans]

My 10 gallon Home Depot cooler is slightly better than a friends mash system they got from NB. They have a 3° more drop over a 90 min mash.

I got my fittings, valves & false bottom from:

https://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=47&product_id=252

They have really great quality stuff and I love their 3 piece valves.

 

[wilserbrewer]

For anything touching your hot wort you should use silicone tubing (hose). The thick-walled 1/2" ID / 3/4"OD tubing (wall thickness 1/8") is most useful for that.

On the cold side you can use regular vinyl tubing for short exposures (like during racking and transfers).

What is the basis for this...
I always thought max temp for vinyl tubing not under pressure is 175 f?

http://media.wattswater.com/ES-ClearVinyltubing.pdf

 

[IslandLizard]

What is the basis for this...
I always thought max temp for vinyl tubing not under pressure is 175 f?

http://media.wattswater.com/ES-ClearVinyltubing.pdf

No real basis, just from what I've read over the years. Potential extraction of plasticizers and such.
Under 180F it may not be as big of a deal, also depending on duration of exposure. If one can taste weird flavors after boiling a few inches of tubing in some water, something got extracted. Some vinyl tubing seems to fare better than others in that test.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

@IslandLizard, I'm presuming there is no CPVC glue used on any of your manifold fittings, and that everything is merely pressed together. Would this be correct?

 

[IslandLizard]

@IslandLizard, I'm presuming there is no CPVC glue used on any of your manifold fittings, and that everything is merely pressed together. Would this be correct?

Yes, presumed correctly, all friction fit.

I only knocked a coupling loose once, a sideways outrigger toward the drain end would fix that possibility. It would require 2 cross couplers to replace a T on each side.

 

[AzOr]

I bought a bazooka screen and ball valve set up at my lhbs. If I recall it was about $25 for the bazooka, hardware and ball valve. I took my Lowe’s round water cooler and they put it on for me. Took all of maybe 1 minute.
I have probably 25-30 batches on this set up and it works great.

Best of luck

 

[Steveruch]

Get the best price you can.
Several years back I found a ten gallon Coleman square cooler at Ross Dress 4 Less for about half of anywhere else.
It worked great as a mashtun.

 

[IslandLizard]

Get the best price you can.
Several years back I found a ten gallon Coleman square cooler at Ross Dress 4 Less for about half of anywhere else.
It worked great as a mashtun.

A great price or a bargain are certainly nice bonuses. But sometimes functionality, shape, and quality overrule modest price differences. Is paying an extra $10-20 for something you really like and want not worth it?

I didn't want a round tun or one with built-in wheels and a telescopic handle. The side handles that came with it, I appreciate, as well as its capacity, and space.

But the real functionality gem is the low placed, somewhat recessed drain. That results in 0 deadspace, even when the siphon breaks, and an amazing mash efficiency.

I built the manifold with the idea to keep the possibility of fly sparging open and easy to implement. Haven't had a need for it. Maybe one day I'll be brave and turn it into a recirculating mash system, as I love step mashing and decoctions. Otherwise, I like the simplicity and low equipment footprint of the current setup.

 

[wilserbrewer]

But the real functionality gem is the low placed, somewhat recessed drain. That results in 0 deadspace, even when the siphon breaks, and an amazing mash efficiency.
.

Ok ok but same could be said about any cooler bulk head if you stick a work boot under one end to tip it toward the drain....

And if you are batch sparging and cant find the work boot to use as a prop ....your only leaving behind less than precious 2nd runnings anyway...

I remain a cooler is a cooler lol

 

[IslandLizard]

....your only leaving behind less than precious 2nd runnings anyway...

Quarter-precious 3rd runnings that is. The 1.012-1.020 stuff.

 

[kh54s10]

I once thought I saw a bargain priced cooler. (not wanted for brewing at the time) I picked it up and it was so light that I assume it had and inner and outer shell with little to no insulation.

Beware the buyer!

 

[augiedoggy]

coolers are lined with plastic thats food safe up to 170 degrees after that you may well end up with a bit of plastic chemicals leeched into your beer. (per information shared a while back in another thread from a popular cooler manufacturer) Also the liner will warp, bubble and become brittle because the plastic is no longer stable at temps over 170 degrees.. The people that complain of this very very likely exposed thier cooler to temps above 170. no need for this.
CPVC pipe is a better choice for a manifold than pvc for the same reasons although if you keep temps below 170 which is easy to do and should be done for other reasons anyway, theres no issue..
a rectangle cooler offers more manifold surface area and is less likely to have draining issues than the tall round ones.. downside is your also possibly leaving good wort stuck in the larger amount of deadspace if the drain isnt setup just right.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

A great price or a bargain are certainly nice bonuses. But sometimes functionality, shape, and quality overrule modest price differences. Is paying an extra $10-20 for something you really like and want not worth it?

I didn't want a round tun or one with built-in wheels and a telescopic handle. The side handles that came with it, I appreciate, as well as its capacity, and space.

But the real functionality gem is the low placed, somewhat recessed drain. That results in 0 deadspace, even when the siphon breaks, and an amazing mash efficiency.

I built the manifold with the idea to keep the possibility of fly sparging open and easy to implement. Haven't had a need for it. Maybe one day I'll be brave and turn it into a recirculating mash system, as I love step mashing and decoctions. Otherwise, I like the simplicity and low equipment footprint of the current setup.

I'm a bit confused by this. From the pictures, it doesn't look like you're drawing liquid from that recessed area at all.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm a bit confused by this. From the pictures, it doesn't look like you're drawing liquid from that recessed area at all.

The short connector tube that goes into the bulkhead has a slit. It's a bit difficult to see, but is there, on purpose. Of course it's pointing down during normal operation.
I guess we could try Wilser's boot to drain a few more oz off. I always see a few oz of wort left on the bottom when emptying it out.

BTW, my tun sits on a low bench, it drains with a 1.5' hose into a short, 3.5 gallon bucket. No splashing and a good siphon.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

The short connector tube that goes into the bulkhead has a slit. It's a bit difficult to see, but is there, on purpose. Of course it's pointing down during normal operation.
I guess we could try Wilser's boot to drain a few more oz off. I always see a few oz of wort left on the bottom when emptying it out.

BTW, my tun sits on a low bench, it drains with a 1.5' hose into a short, 3.5 gallon bucket. No splashing and a good siphon.

Cool. I didn't notice that. I'm currently using a bag in my cooler MLT which has the same depression. I have a 90 degree elbow that draws from that depression and only leaves an ounce or so in the cooler when I'm done (I put a 2x2 stick under the other side when draining....easier than a boot I guess).

I'd like to go back to getting clear wort to see if it's what's causing my hoppy beers to be less bright and defined since I started using the bag. I used to use a bazooka screen, but it left a lot of wort behind and I had really marginal efficiency.