I looked for some discussion on the forum and could not find one; hopefully this is just a short thread. I see equipment from home brew suppliers for cooler type mash tun/HLT, these are pretty much all set up to use. The are also more expensive. Then there are the coolers from Home Depot and such, which I have seen in many set ups. Does anyone think that there is any real difference in insulating ability/capacity /durability between the coolers offered by home brew supply houses vs those you can get in the big hardware stores. Cost difference is of course one, I realize that. DIY setup is not too hard for store bought coolers. I just wondered if it was worth the difference in price, besides the convenience factor of getting them already set up. Personally I would rather use stainless steel vessels but the plastic is cheaper. I say that mainly because I know the preservative chemicals that are put into plastic to keep it from going bad, and concerned about leaching into the hot mash and such.
plastic cooler as mash tun -HBS vs hardware store
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The cooler type mash tuns in the homebrew stores or online are exactly the same ones you find in the hardware stores.
Most LHBS sell the 10 gallon round ones. I prefer the rectangular ones, easier to stir, IMO. It takes only a a little handiness to mount the bulkhead, and check the seal for no leaks. You may save quite some $$ in the process.
Most cooler are made from food grade materials, so they are perfectly fine for use as a mash tun.
Stainless mash tuns need to be well insulated. Plastic coolers are fine as is, but in cold weather benefit from a blanket or sleeping bag cover.
Whether you need another 'HLT' cooler to store hot water depends on your process, I use a spare SS kettle, and heat my sparge water ~20' before the mash is done. I don't fly sparge, just batch sparge 2x with equal volumes. Easy peasy.
Here's the inside of my 52 qt Coleman Extreme mash tun, manifold is shown upside down:
Most LHBS sell the 10 gallon round ones. I prefer the rectangular ones, easier to stir, IMO. It takes only a a little handiness to mount the bulkhead, and check the seal for no leaks. You may save quite some $$ in the process.
Most cooler are made from food grade materials, so they are perfectly fine for use as a mash tun.
Stainless mash tuns need to be well insulated. Plastic coolers are fine as is, but in cold weather benefit from a blanket or sleeping bag cover.
Whether you need another 'HLT' cooler to store hot water depends on your process, I use a spare SS kettle, and heat my sparge water ~20' before the mash is done. I don't fly sparge, just batch sparge 2x with equal volumes. Easy peasy.
Here's the inside of my 52 qt Coleman Extreme mash tun, manifold is shown upside down:
I also believe the coolers that homebrew stores sell are no different than any other store. If you are not DIY savvy one of them might fit the bill. If you are comfortable in DIY you can save a lot of money.
I went with a 10 gallon Rubbemaid water cooler. Bought a cooler valve assembly from Northern Brewer, a 3/4" x 12" water heater supply line for the stainless steel braid, a hose clamp and 2 nylon nuts and bolts to close the end. About $65 - $70 total about 7 years ago. The kit is $170 at Northern Brewer and is also out of stock right now.
I went with a 10 gallon Rubbemaid water cooler. Bought a cooler valve assembly from Northern Brewer, a 3/4" x 12" water heater supply line for the stainless steel braid, a hose clamp and 2 nylon nuts and bolts to close the end. About $65 - $70 total about 7 years ago. The kit is $170 at Northern Brewer and is also out of stock right now.
I wouldn't buy anything from NB though...
ApolloSimcoe
Well-Known Member
As others have said the coolers are the same. I have read some info on line that the coolers are not made for hot liquids, just cold. I however use one and have not tasted any off flavors or developed any tumors yet.
I would however recommend that you purchase the True bulkhead from Bobby at brewhardware.com. I'm in no way affiliated with Bobby or his shop but these bulkheads are the best i have bought. They are 100 times better than the washer/coupler nipple options out there
I would however recommend that you purchase the True bulkhead from Bobby at brewhardware.com. I'm in no way affiliated with Bobby or his shop but these bulkheads are the best i have bought. They are 100 times better than the washer/coupler nipple options out there
Thank you. I'm curious about the kind of tubing to get. It should be heat resistant but other than that can you just pick it up at the hardware store also? I guess the water heater supply line takes care of that problem. Just wondered if the tubing had to be food grade also.
I've read that people like the rectangular coolers better especially for sparging. If I may, is the pipe assembly at the bottom functioning as a sieve for the grain? I'd likely be using a bag for mashing otherwise, thanks
For anything touching your hot wort you should use silicone tubing (hose). The thick-walled 1/2" ID / 3/4"OD tubing (wall thickness 1/8") is most useful for that.
On the cold side you can use regular vinyl tubing for short exposures (like during racking and transfers).
The pipe manifold is made from 1/2" CPVC (it's potable and hot water grade). The slits are on the bottom during use. Yes, that's the filter. There are other methods to filter, like a stainless braid, Bazooka Tube, copper pipe with holes or slits, etc.
If you use a BIAB bag inside the cooler, that's your filter, you only need a bulkhead and something to prevent the bag from plugging up the drain, like a stainless braid, a Bazooka tube, etc.
Personally, I hate stirring inside bags, they tend to wrap around the paddle/slotted (or perforated) spoon.
I have never used a rectangular one but I truly like that my round cooler has no corners that would make stirring the grain a little more difficult. If you are going to use a bag, why not just do BIAB where you mash in your boil kettle?
I would be willing to bet that far more people use vinyl tubing on both the hot and the cold than silicone......
I am beginning to use silicone everywhere because it is not so stiff more than heat or cold.
The corners have never been a problem, but I use a large perforated 'kitchen' spoon or a wooden stir paddle. There's a lot of space to maneuver, which I like, as it's easy to bring mash from the bottom up to the top for thorough mixing, as if it were cement in a mixing trough, not in a bucket.
If anything, for most 5.5 gallon batches, due to the larger surface, the grain bed is a bit shallow and I need to vorlauf 2x to get clear wort. I pour the vorlauf on top of the perforated aluminum foil 'cover' I have lying on top of the grain bed. I know I shouldn't use Al foil, but haven't found anything better yet. I still need to cut a true 'floating' lid from 3/4" rigid foam, stuck inside a plastic bag.
I do not worry about stuff "leaching" out due to hot wort, but I would probably rate the plastic bag an equal hazard to aluminum foil.
can you tell me the diameter of the cuts you made in the pipe? hacksaw or Dremel? I can see how that would be effective as a strainer
I actually used a 'thin plywood' blade in my circular saw.
It's hardened steel with small teeth for a smooth cut finish through veneered surfaces. Anything I had with carbide tips had a kerf that's much too wide (~1/8"). Even the cuts I got are a little wider than I had intended.
A hacksaw blade should work fine or even better since they're narrower, but the slits won't be as parallel. Not that it matters to liquids.
A Dremel cut-off blade is likely too narrow.
I had grabbed the design from another post on HBT that used the similar, but larger, 70 qt cooler, and adapted the measurements.
There's no glue, everything is friction fit. I have had to dig into the spent grain heep a few times to find small pieces.
Note the short piece of 1/2" thick walled silicone tubing between the manifold exit and the short CPVC end that fits perfectly inside the bulkhead tube.
The cooler was ~$25 from Sears, back in 2013.
The 10' piece of CPVC tubing, bag of T's and other fittings was around $8 at Lowes or HD.
Bulkhead ~$15 IIRC, probably from Bargain Fittings. Get the large flat silicone washer and the SS backup washer.
I needed to use some silicone to seal the bulkhead on the inside. Aquarium silicone is recommended as it is food safe. The cooler's drain port is slightly angled downward and it wouldn't seal with just the silicone washer.
I've had to redo that area a few times over the years, using more silicone, as I keep/kept stepping on the valve/bulkhead assembly. I did the stepping on valve trick one time too many on a repurposed bottling bucket full with Starsan... Where is all that 'water' coming from?
The valve I had spare from my kettle, which received a well deserved 3-piece valve.I've had to redo that area a few times over the years, using more silicone, as I keep/kept stepping on the valve/bulkhead assembly. I did the stepping on valve trick one time too many on a repurposed bottling bucket full with Starsan... Where is all that 'water' coming from?
Jmo, a cooler is a cooler is a cooler, no need to overthink it imo.
I linked below a super simple cheap MT that works great! Perhaps you already have a cooler you could repurpose.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/ten-minute-cooler-mash-tun-conversion.125108/
I linked below a super simple cheap MT that works great! Perhaps you already have a cooler you could repurpose.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/ten-minute-cooler-mash-tun-conversion.125108/
Shawnanigans
Active Member
My 10 gallon Home Depot cooler is slightly better than a friends mash system they got from NB. They have a 3° more drop over a 90 min mash.
I got my fittings, valves & false bottom from:
https://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=47&product_id=252
They have really great quality stuff and I love their 3 piece valves.
I got my fittings, valves & false bottom from:
https://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=47&product_id=252
They have really great quality stuff and I love their 3 piece valves.
What is the basis for this...
I always thought max temp for vinyl tubing not under pressure is 175 f?
http://media.wattswater.com/ES-ClearVinyltubing.pdf
No real basis, just from what I've read over the years. Potential extraction of plasticizers and such.
Under 180F it may not be as big of a deal, also depending on duration of exposure. If one can taste weird flavors after boiling a few inches of tubing in some water, something got extracted. Some vinyl tubing seems to fare better than others in that test.
Silver_Is_Money
Larry Sayre, Developer of 'Mash Made Easy'
@IslandLizard, I'm presuming there is no CPVC glue used on any of your manifold fittings, and that everything is merely pressed together. Would this be correct?
Yes, presumed correctly, all friction fit.
I only knocked a coupling loose once, a sideways outrigger toward the drain end would fix that possibility. It would require 2 cross couplers to replace a T on each side.
I bought a bazooka screen and ball valve set up at my lhbs. If I recall it was about $25 for the bazooka, hardware and ball valve. I took my Lowe’s round water cooler and they put it on for me. Took all of maybe 1 minute.
I have probably 25-30 batches on this set up and it works great.
Best of luck
I have probably 25-30 batches on this set up and it works great.
Best of luck
Steveruch
Well-Known Member
Get the best price you can.
Several years back I found a ten gallon Coleman square cooler at Ross Dress 4 Less for about half of anywhere else.
It worked great as a mashtun.
Several years back I found a ten gallon Coleman square cooler at Ross Dress 4 Less for about half of anywhere else.
It worked great as a mashtun.
A great price or a bargain are certainly nice bonuses. But sometimes functionality, shape, and quality overrule modest price differences. Is paying an extra $10-20 for something you really like and want not worth it?
I didn't want a round tun or one with built-in wheels and a telescopic handle. The side handles that came with it, I appreciate, as well as its capacity, and space.
But the real functionality gem is the low placed, somewhat recessed drain. That results in 0 deadspace, even when the siphon breaks, and an amazing mash efficiency.
I built the manifold with the idea to keep the possibility of fly sparging open and easy to implement. Haven't had a need for it. Maybe one day I'll be brave and turn it into a recirculating mash system, as I love step mashing and decoctions. Otherwise, I like the simplicity and low equipment footprint of the current setup.
Ok ok but same could be said about any cooler bulk head if you stick a work boot under one end to tip it toward the drain....
And if you are batch sparging and cant find the work boot to use as a prop ....your only leaving behind less than precious 2nd runnings anyway...
I remain a cooler is a cooler lol
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Quarter-precious 3rd runnings that is. The 1.012-1.020 stuff.
I once thought I saw a bargain priced cooler. (not wanted for brewing at the time) I picked it up and it was so light that I assume it had and inner and outer shell with little to no insulation.
Beware the buyer!
Beware the buyer!
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
coolers are lined with plastic thats food safe up to 170 degrees after that you may well end up with a bit of plastic chemicals leeched into your beer. (per information shared a while back in another thread from a popular cooler manufacturer) Also the liner will warp, bubble and become brittle because the plastic is no longer stable at temps over 170 degrees.. The people that complain of this very very likely exposed thier cooler to temps above 170. no need for this.
CPVC pipe is a better choice for a manifold than pvc for the same reasons although if you keep temps below 170 which is easy to do and should be done for other reasons anyway, theres no issue..
a rectangle cooler offers more manifold surface area and is less likely to have draining issues than the tall round ones.. downside is your also possibly leaving good wort stuck in the larger amount of deadspace if the drain isnt setup just right.
CPVC pipe is a better choice for a manifold than pvc for the same reasons although if you keep temps below 170 which is easy to do and should be done for other reasons anyway, theres no issue..
a rectangle cooler offers more manifold surface area and is less likely to have draining issues than the tall round ones.. downside is your also possibly leaving good wort stuck in the larger amount of deadspace if the drain isnt setup just right.
I'm a bit confused by this. From the pictures, it doesn't look like you're drawing liquid from that recessed area at all.
The short connector tube that goes into the bulkhead has a slit. It's a bit difficult to see, but is there, on purpose. Of course it's pointing down during normal operation.
I guess we could try Wilser's boot to drain a few more oz off. I always see a few oz of wort left on the bottom when emptying it out.
BTW, my tun sits on a low bench, it drains with a 1.5' hose into a short, 3.5 gallon bucket. No splashing and a good siphon.
Cool. I didn't notice that. I'm currently using a bag in my cooler MLT which has the same depression. I have a 90 degree elbow that draws from that depression and only leaves an ounce or so in the cooler when I'm done (I put a 2x2 stick under the other side when draining....easier than a boot I guess).
I'd like to go back to getting clear wort to see if it's what's causing my hoppy beers to be less bright and defined since I started using the bag. I used to use a bazooka screen, but it left a lot of wort behind and I had really marginal efficiency.
I'd say oxidation is the first place to look to fix underwhelming hoppy beers. And yeah, a good place for possible causes and solutions is the LoDO forum.
I thought about that, but my processes are all the same except using a bag vs the bazooka screen. I follow very careful cold side oxidation prevention. I've never worried about hot side and I don't really plan to start. My beers from last year stayed very tasty for 4-5 weeks (never had one last longer), so I'm not too worried about oxidation. I made just the one change to my process and they just don't have the snap they used to.
jrgtr42
Well-Known Member
I did the same thing as above, with a 48 qt rectangular cooler, I got a new spout from one of the HB shops online, and I got a length of copper pipe to make my manifold out of. (along with a handful of angles and such. I made sure it was rated for drinking water; I figure that's good enough for me. I used a Dremel with but-off disk for the slits, I just vourlauf about a gallon or so and I;m good. I use a quart size measuring cup, drain it out, pour gently on the top and I'm fine. I also don't care if I have crystal-clear wort coming out of the tun anyways; it'll hot-break out and get filtered when I pour through the strainer anyways when I transfer to the fermenter.
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The cold side is a lot easier to manage, we work under CO2 there.
You're saying since you started using the mash bag your hoppy beers lost their snap?
Did you get clearer wort with the bazooka tube than with the bag? That would surprise me.
Could the bag add to hot side aeration? The mesh being a factor, perhaps? Are you underletting? How about the headspace, is the surplus of the mesh bag stowed in there during the mash?
Yep, since switching to the bag. With the bazooka I was doing a 2-3 quart vorlauf and the result was much clearer wort than I get with the bag (which is free of hulls but quite murky).
It could be a number of things...clear vs murky wort or HSA from the wort running back into the MLT when I raise the bag are the two most likely.
The mesh bag is wrapped over the sides of the cooler. I put a layer of foil over the top of the mash. I do not underlet. I tried it once and it was a big hassle...my burner doesn't really sit high enough to get the strike water to drain very well.
There is one other possibility. I used to always by small bags of hops so I was pretty much always using freshly opened hops. Now I buy in 1/2 and 1 lb bags and vacuum seal the left overs and store in the freezer. They smell great, but it's possible they're not as fresh.
Kirkwooder
Emperor of all things nobody cares about
Do you pull any of this apart to clean it or do you find it doesn't need it? And do you have any idea why there is the closed rectangle section just in front of the bulkhead, instead of flowing right to the bulkhead fitting? I need to upgrade my cooler and would like to do something like this in copper, and I like the look of your set up.
Thanks for sharing!
When emptying the mash tun by scooping, the manifold tends to separate, and falls apart when inverting the tun. I rinse the pieces out while cleaning/rinsing the inside of the tun, but do no brushing on the inside more than maybe once a year, if that.
The closed rectangle section happened unintentional because of the smaller surface area being covered compared to the larger version I copied from. That design had slits in the short connection tubes in that area, IIRC. I can't seem to locate the pictures or the thread (or blog?) I got the design from, to verify.
That closed section as it turned out bugged me a bit too, but I never noticed any lauter problems. Now I batch sparge so manifold geometry isn't all that important, as long as it drains. And it drains very well, there's a solid 1/2" hose wide stream at full valve opening. I can drain 70-80% in under 2 minutes if I want. I reckon I could add some slits in those short exposed tubes between the T-fittings in that area.
The reason the main 4-channel section doesn't directly connect to the bulkhead is that there is no space to fit the bulkhead T-fitting in that section on the left. Hence the (extra) 2nd bridge closer to the bulkhead.
Kirkwooder
Emperor of all things nobody cares about
Thanks, I'll be building something very similar.
This^^^ If I were beginning, BIAB would be a no brainer IMO b
After this discussion, I was curious about the 'false bottom' setup. I thought originally that the stainless steel false bottoms from HBS stores were good; then I saw the setup of IslandLizard which was graciously shared; now I run across several DIY setups that use those steel mesh supply lines, where you remove the inner plastic tubing and there is your screen. I ask because can one get a decent filtration and flow from using one of these as the 'false bottom?' it seems simple enough to set up, but I don't know if anyone has used this and would recommend for or against. Thanks
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