Planning first Belgian (golden strong ale)... what to do after fermentation?

[HM-2]

I could do the keg conditioning/carb with sugar in the keg.
Does it actually make a better beer, or is it just a help to make you warm-condition it longer? I can have patience if that is all it is.

Honestly most beers are better naturally carbonated. I just don't do it as often as I should because I'm lazy.

But it's a combination of factors here.

 

[DuncB]

I follow the Duvel method approximately.
Ferment in PET conical, spund at end to around 2 vols, at terminal slow cold crash to near 0C, drop yeast and then add finings, cold condition 3 weeks dropping the finings.
Then counter pressure bottle fill and add priming dextrose and a small amount of freshly spun up yeast to target 3.5 vols.
Wait 3 weeks in warm and then cool in fridge.
I use champagne bottles 750 and 375, whole process takes about 80 days.
It's a bit fiddly but results are good.

 

[ninkwood]

I follow the Duvel method approximately.
Ferment in PET conical, spund at end to around 2 vols, at terminal slow cold crash to near 0C, drop yeast and then add finings, cold condition 3 weeks dropping the finings.
Then counter pressure bottle fill and add priming dextrose and a small amount of freshly spun up yeast to target 3.5 vols.
Wait 3 weeks in warm and then cool in fridge.
I use champagne bottles 750 and 375, whole process takes about 80 days.
It's a bit fiddly but results are good.

When would you say this beer hits its peak? I like the method but I can't counter pressure bottle fill at the moment.

 

[DuncB]

When would you say this beer hits its peak? I like the method but I can't counter pressure bottle fill at the moment.

I reckon every bottle has been great and I've been drinking them over the last 2 years.
The Duvel people say that it's best drunk fresh, but others like old Duvel.
Good discussion on Gourmet brewers youtube channel.

The choice is yours!

 

[DVCNick]

Update:
Pitched the morning of 9/7. Kegged 10/18. OG 1.067, FG 1.008 ABV 7.7%
Warm conditioned until today, put in the kegerator 11/27. Took a sample; nothing offensive about it to me; seems to be tracking nicely.
Going to force carb/wing it and maybe start taking more samples around Christmas.

 

[DVCNick]

Update #2: I didn't take any more samples until Sunday 2/2/25.
After a couple pints its running pretty dang clear.
I took some to a homebrew club meeting on 2/3.
General feedback from the pro brewer there was that it is a "great light lager!" (half joking, but saying it is super clean but the actual Belgian character is lacking a bit). I don't disagree based on how it was served/tasting at that time.

The next day I poured one in a lager glass with the nucleation rings on the bottom, and boom, much more carb releasing and I was getting a lot more of what I would consider Belgian character.

I have a bottle of Duvel on deck and will compare them head to head likely this weekend to see what differences I can see.
But overall, I'm certainly not displeased especially out of the lager glass. Clean, clear, light color and overall light feel, super drinkable/dangerous at 7.7%

If I wanted to add a bit more Belgian character though, thoughts on how to do that would be appreciated.
My plan is to break out the beer gun, bottle off a decent chunk of this batch to let it further age; maybe I'll further warm condition some of those bottles.... to see if/how it changes, and clear space in the kegerator.

It just takes time, but overall I'd do it again.

 

[VTMongoose]

If I wanted to add a bit more Belgian character though, thoughts on how to do that would be appreciated.

Unless I'm missing something, you've literally said absolutely nothing about your recipe or process that could help us figure this out. What malts and hops did you use? Most importantly, what yeast strain did you use, what temperature did you pitch at, and what temperature did it reach while it was free rising? You want to pitch at 66-68°F, and hit 80°F or a little higher in my opinion. From there I hold it at 75°F until terminal.

1.008 is a high final gravity if you are using the Duvel strain (WB-06, WLP570, or WY1388). That strain hits 1.004 like clockwork for me every single time, and it finishes very fast for a diastatic yeast, granted, it is one of the "weak" diastatic strains and nothing like a saison strain, for example.

 

[DVCNick]

Sorry, everything consolidated:

Brewed 9/6/24

-12.25lb Franco-Belges Belgian pils
-2lb simplicity blonde candi syrup (added at 10 min)
-.25lb Dextrose (added at 10 min)

Mash water profile CA 59, Mg 6, Na 17, Chloride 76, Sulfate 60
Step mash 131F for 20min, 146 for 60min, 168 for 15min

60min boil
.4 oz Magnum @60
2oz Hallertauer Mittelfruh @20
2oz Styrian Golding @0
Whirfloc/yeast nutrient @10

1.067 OG

Oxygenated well with bottle oxygen/stone
Wyeast 1388, 2+Liter crashed/decanted starter, pitched @65F, it appeared to hit high krausen 12hr later and stayed there for about 48 hours. I let it free rise where it reached just under 80 on its own, I then heated it up to 82F (heat applied at about the 48 hour mark) and held it there for two weeks. Then closed the fermenter and let it free fall.

Kegged 10/18/24, FG measured 1.008 at this time. Warm conditioned in the keg under low gas pressure until 11/27/24 when it went in the kegerator. Force carbed to 3.5vol per the calculators. Tapped 2/2/25.

 

[VTMongoose]

Sorry, everything consolidated:

Brewed 9/6/24

-12.25lb Franco-Belges Belgian pils
-2lb simplicity blonde candi syrup (added at 10 min)
-.25lb Dextrose (added at 10 min)

Mash water profile CA 59, Mg 6, Na 17, Chloride 76, Sulfate 60
Step mash 131F for 20min, 146 for 60min, 168 for 15min

60min boil
.4 oz Magnum @60
2oz Hallertauer Mittelfruh @20
2oz Styrian Golding @0
Whirfloc/yeast nutrient @10

1.067 OG

Oxygenated well with bottle oxygen/stone
Wyeast 1388, 2+Liter crashed/decanted starter, pitched @65F, it appeared to hit high krausen 12hr later and stayed there for about 48 hours. I let it free rise where it reached just under 80 on its own, I then heated it up to 82F (heat applied at about the 48 hour mark) and held it there for two weeks. Then closed the fermenter and let it free fall.

Kegged 10/18/24, FG measured 1.008 at this time. Warm conditioned in the keg under low gas pressure until 11/27/24 when it went in the kegerator. Force carbed to 3.5vol per the calculators. Tapped 2/2/25.

Great. I have specific advice. Let me preference this by saying that my BGS (my profile pic) is my best and signature beer, so I feel like I have a better handle on that style than any other. Scores 42-46 in every single comp I put it in.

1. Your Chloride:Sulfate ratio is not ideal at 1.27. This is a "Belgian Pilsner", it's not a malty style. You need more gypsum and less CaCl2. I target only about 0.6
2. Increase sugar as a percentage of total fermentables to 20% or maybe even a bit more, rather than the 15% of the grist as it stands currently. I only use dextrose/glucose personally.
3. Swap all your hops for 100% Saaz, good ones. Buy domestically grown Saaz if you can't get ones from Europe with more than 4% alpha acids.
4. Don't oxygenate.
5. Duvel pitches 0.35 million cells/mL/°P, reduce your pitching rate accordingly.

Also, I personally do not use a protein rest and I don't believe you need one with this style.

edit: I just reread my post and I don't mean to come across as arrogant with the comp ratings and all, as I would trade my ability to brew a good BGS for the ability to brew a lot of other styles better.

 

[DVCNick]

Great. I have specific advice. Let me preference this by saying that my BGS (my profile pic) is my best and signature beer, so I feel like I have a better handle on that style than any other. Scores 42-46 in every single comp I put it in.

1. Your Chloride:Sulfate ratio is not ideal at 1.27. This is a "Belgian Pilsner", it's not a malty style. You need more gypsum and less CaCl2. I target only about 0.6
2. Increase sugar as a percentage of total fermentables to 20% or maybe even a bit more, rather than the 15% of the grist as it stands currently. I only use dextrose/glucose personally.
3. Swap all your hops for 100% Saaz, good ones. Buy domestically grown Saaz if you can't get ones from Europe with more than 4% alpha acids.
4. Don't oxygenate.
5. Duvel pitches 0.35 million cells/mL/°P, reduce your pitching rate accordingly.

Also, I personally do not use a protein rest and I don't believe you need one with this style.

edit: I just reread my post and I don't mean to come across as arrogant with the comp ratings and all, as I would trade my ability to brew a good BGS for the ability to brew a lot of other styles better.

Thanks, I will try applying that in another batch sometime...
So overall, the timeline in the fermenter/warm conditioning/cold conditioning look good if you are going the kegging route?

 

[Dog House Brew]

I’ve had less than stellar results kegging any Belgian. I usually transfer to the keg with priming sugar. I mix it and then bottle with my bottling setup. I try to mitigate any O2 from the cold side, I purge and bottle. Bottle conditioning, IMO, is the only way to go when bottling Belgian beers. I follow the same process with Saison. I always cork and cage both, some of that is for the experience. All of these go into 750ml bottles. I’ve found that that makes the best specimen. Just me, I’ve brewed a lot in these styles. Kegging my triple was the worst of all! Just my $.02

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Your Chloride:Sulfate ratio is not ideal at 1.27. This is a "Belgian Pilsner", it's not a malty style. You need more gypsum and less CaCl2. I target only about 0.6

Is there a standard water profile you use, "Antwerp"?

 

[JohnDBrewer]

I’ve had less than stellar results kegging any Belgian.

I agree. Never been able to get the effervescent carb level with a keg. Or at least never been able to get it out of the keg that way .

 

[VTMongoose]

So overall, the timeline in the fermenter/warm conditioning/cold conditioning look good if you are going the kegging route?

I actually think your warm conditioning time is overkill. Personally I have been keg conditioning most of my Belgian ales (rather than force carbonating) and they go into the kegerator two weeks after priming and sitting at room temperature-ish.

I actually have changed my mind about the necessity of keg conditioning based on my recent experience with a witbier and am planning on skipping it with a Dubbel, Blonde, and Hefeweizen this weekend. It does make a difference, but I think if your transfer process is good, and you carbonate appropriately, that difference is marginal at best. I could be wrong. I'll find out tomorrow when I keg a Belgian Blonde and Dubbel that are done fermenting. I'll still be bottle conditioning comp entries and giveaways because bottling from a keg and achieving north of even 2.5 volumes of CO2ish is extremely hard to do.

I believe the reason European breweries keg condition their high carb ales is because 90+% of their sales are bottled and it doesn't make sense to develop an entirely different process of carbonating just for the few kegs they put out. Again, I could be wrong.

Serving styles like these from a keg requires a few modifications:

1. Higher dissolved CO2, 2.8 to 3.5 volumes depending on the style
2. Smaller diameter lines to the taps with a much longer run to prevent breakout
3. Manual agitation of the keg once in a while to resuspend yeast if applicable/desired (not applicable to BGS where I personally use gelatin). Dependent on yeast flocculation.

 

[DVCNick]

Thanks all.
Don't get me wrong, I like this beer a lot; if I was served it commercially I'd have absolutely no issue with it. Just looking to tweak/improve as we all are.

Agree that getting it into the glass from the keg at the proper carb level is a challenge/bordering on impossible.
I have long lines, low temps, and low serving pressure, about everything I know to do, and I imagine the bottle of Duvel is still going to have a higher carb level in the glass.

For bottle conditioning, I'd need to get appropriate bottles for this level of carb, then obviously the labor element; then you have the sediment from the bottle conditioning that you don't want in the glass with this style, etc, etc, we all know; but sounds like it might the only way to really get this beer "right".

 

[VTMongoose]

The Cary crown finish 375's can handle 4.0 volumes. Cary directly confirmed that themselves when I reached out to them. I and many others bottle Belgians in these.

https://www.northernbrewer.com/products/375-ml-belgian-style-beer-bottles-crown-finish

I stock up on these when they go on sale or when they offer free shipping. They're expensive but worth it.

 

[DVCNick]

The Cary crown finish 375's can handle 4.0 volumes. Cary directly confirmed that themselves when I reached out to them. I and many others bottle Belgians in these.

https://www.northernbrewer.com/products/375-ml-belgian-style-beer-bottles-crown-finish

I stock up on these when they go on sale or when they offer free shipping. They're expensive but worth it.

Whoa... I can get a bottle like that with Duvel in it for $13.xx around here!

 

[DuncB]

A dollar 30 a bottle, not so bad. Will last forever.

 

[ninkwood]

For what it's worth, I definitely think I prefer the bottling route over kegging for this particular style. I can't say for certain the quality of the bottled beer is better, but its just a better experience popping the cap on a bottle that's sat there for half a year vs a now half full keg that's been taking up space in my small keezer and that I never really want to attach a dedicated beer line to.

While I definitely prefer kegging overall, I do think bottling still has it's place. High ABV beers, and highly carbonated beers are better off bottled in my opinion.

 

[DVCNick]

A dollar 30 a bottle, not so bad. Will last forever.

Oh crap I somehow missed that was for a 12 pack... that's embarrassing.
Yeah, I will get those before the next batch and try bottling at least some of it.