Pittsburgh

[kbuzz1]

Not you, you like the warriors. And that's stupid. Because it's not what I like.

Hey man...Steph is a Charlotte kid. What can I say...I support locals.

 

[hornydevil]

Will kegged beer have a different time frame for diacetyl to show up then cans?

Depends what temperature they're stored at and whether or not the beer is pasteurized or not. If viable yeast is still in solution, it will eventually happen if the precursors are present.

 

[ur boy catlicks]

the chemical reaction for acetolactate to diacetyl is an oxidation, so i assume any introduction of oxygen to the beer (e.g. canning) could catalyze that conversion. if u go from production straight to kegs, no (or at least LESS) oxygen reaches the beer, therefore avoiding or slowing the chemical conversion which yields diacetyl

 

[chefduff2]

the chemical reaction for acetolactate to diacetyl is an oxidation, so i assume any introduction of oxygen to the beer (e.g. canning) could catalyze that conversion. if u go from production straight to kegs, no (or at least LESS) oxygen reaches the beer, therefore avoiding or slowing the chemical conversion which yields diacetyl

This is what I was thinking, but I didn't know the science. I have this feeling about a local owner who drinks from the tap and says it's fine while people who purchased the cans say butter.

 

[ur boy catlicks]

i just read the bit on this issue while I'm reading the book Yeast, and at least that's how I'm interpreting it, though I most definitely could be wrong. Actually would be interested to hear horny's take on it

 

[kbuzz1]

Actually would be interested to hear horny's opinion on my description

 

[hornydevil]

i just read the bit on this issue while I'm reading the book Yeast, and at least that's how I'm interpreting it, though I most definitely could be wrong. Actually would be interested to hear horny's opinion on my description

Diacetyl is produced during fermentation as a byproduct of valine synthesis, when yeast produces α-acetolactate, which escapes the cell and is spontaneously decarboxylated into diacetyl (Butane-2,3-dione). The yeast then absorbs the diacetyl, and reduces the ketone groups to form acetoin and 2,3-butanediol.

So . . . in order for acetolactate to be released into solution and spontaneously decarboxylated, yeast cells need to be in solution.

 

[McMatt7]

i just read the bit on this issue while I'm reading the book Yeast, and at least that's how I'm interpreting it, though I most definitely could be wrong. Actually would be interested to hear horny's take on it

This series?

 

[kbuzz1]

Diacetyl is produced during fermentation as a byproduct of valine synthesis, when yeast produces α-acetolactate, which escapes the cell and is spontaneously decarboxylated into diacetyl (Butane-2,3-dione). The yeast then absorbs the diacetyl, and reduces the ketone groups to form acetoin and 2,3-butanediol.

So . . . in order for acetolactate to be released into solution and spontaneously decarboxylated, yeast cells need to be in solution.

 

[Matthouse3]

/homer rant

Hey man...Steph is a Charlotte kid. What can I say...I support locals.

 

[psnydez861]

Diacetyl is produced during fermentation as a byproduct of valine synthesis, when yeast produces α-acetolactate, which escapes the cell and is spontaneously decarboxylated into diacetyl (Butane-2,3-dione). The yeast then absorbs the diacetyl, and reduces the ketone groups to form acetoin and 2,3-butanediol.

So . . . in order for acetolactate to be released into solution and spontaneously decarboxylated, yeast cells need to be in solution.

Makes sense since these haZy Hoppy beers do have some yeast in suspension or at least stuck to hop oils and polyphenols. And it's these hazy beers that appear to be turning brown (occasionally)on untapped.

 

[dadavat]

So now we're saying that NE-style ipa's can be TOO fresh? At this rate, we should be able to nail the sweet spot down to a few hours in no time! I call the patent on spontaneously combusting cans that explode after the best by date.

 

[shuggy1]

So he could:

A) Rework his writing and humor style to better appease your preference to brief, deadpan humor, or

B) You could read a different beer blog, or just not ready them at all

You've correctly identified that his writing and humor style doesn't appeal to me and made the incorrect assumption that I ready his blog. I endured about 15 minutes of that blog about a year ago before realizing it had no value.

I was about to say earlier, if Trady comes in to support dontdrinkbeer in this thread, you done ****** up.

How so?

 

[ur boy catlicks]

Makes sense since these haZy Hoppy beers do have some yeast in suspension or at least stuck to hop oils and polyphenols. And it's these hazy beers that appear to be turning brown (occasionally)on untapped.

I think it's quite the opposite actually. Once the yeast is dropped out after fermentation, the acetolactate is still present and can convert to diacetyl but there is no yeast remaining to absorb said diacetyl

 

[ur boy catlicks]

This series?

no u ****** beer nerd. the one i'm reading focuses on yeast infections

 

[stakem1]

please report back...if you have bad things to say, then I will surely believe it.

Box was waiting for me upon my arrival home. Tore it open and threw everything in the fridge. Ended up accidentally stabbing a can of cowbell so I shotgunned that and then cut the grass.

Just finished a bips and chips/chitZ/***** whatever its called and im a fan. I mean it looks like hell, like all those cloudwater NE hoppy brews are but smell and taste wise I dont get the diacetyl. What I do get that im not the biggest fan of is a certain melon/cantaloupe/grassiness that some combos of hops/yeast produce (I notice this a lot in some Troegs hoppy beers too.) But it wasnt outlandish enough for me to dislike it and I will have zero issues slamming the other cans of it.

Soooo take that for what its worth. Maybe I just got a **** palate anymore and cant detect diacetyl. Sorry I dont have any marzens on hand to calibrate said tastebuds.

 

[preluderl]

I love Voodew but I mostly go to the Gents for my hops. Cans would be nice, but I've learned to live without em'.

Curt has the BA game on lock though, and I do really, really love Vandelay Industries. The first DIPA I found that I really enjoyed.

 

[psnydez861]

I think it's quite the opposite actually. Once the yeast is dropped out after fermentation, the acetolactate is still present and can convert to diacetyl but there is no yeast remaining to absorb said diacetyl

 

[beerman6686]

Box was waiting for me upon my arrival home. Tore it open and threw everything in the fridge. Ended up accidentally stabbing a can of cowbell so I shotgunned that and then cut the grass.

Just finished a bips and chips/chitZ/***** whatever its called and im a fan. I mean it looks like hell, like all those cloudwater NE hoppy brews are but smell and taste wise I dont get the diacetyl. What I do get that im not the biggest fan of is a certain melon/cantaloupe/grassiness that some combos of hops/yeast produce (I notice this a lot in some Troegs hoppy beers too.) But it wasnt outlandish enough for me to dislike it and I will have zero issues slamming the other cans of it.

Soooo take that for what its worth. Maybe I just got a **** palate anymore and cant detect diacetyl. Sorry I dont have any marzens on hand to calibrate said tastebuds.

I didnt have the Bips and Chitz so can't comment on that one, let me know what you think of the Unrefined. I know what you mean with the melon/cantalope character, to me that's all Guy tastes like and it almost seems to me like its an over abundance of hop phenols or something. Either way, I dont care for it much. BG is way too close to them to really consider buying their hoppy stuff when in the area, and Dancing Gnome is way too close to me and better quality if I want cans.

 

[shuggy1]

Your ignorance knows no bounds.

How so?

over abundance of hop phenols

Excuse my ignorance but what are hop phenols?

 

[dadavat]

I thought guy tasted like double dry hopped pineapple juice

 

[OneDropSoup]

Excuse my ignorance but what are hop phenols?

WTF?! THAT PICTURE MOVED!!!

 

[beerman6686]

Excuse my ignorance but what are hop phenols?

Bitterness in beer is primarily the product of iso-alpha acids. Iso-alpha acids are formed from the isomerization of alpha acids extracted from the hops, which are not bitter by themselves. Isomerization happens during the boil, so any alpha acids extracted during dry hopping will not contribute to the beers bitterness. Although the alpha acids will not contribute to bitterness, polyphenols which are extracted during dry hopping, can contribute to perceived bitterness independently and synergistically with iso-alpha acids formed during the boil. Polyphenols have also been shown to increase astringency which can also increase perceived bitterness and dryness.

 

[shuggy1]

Bitterness in beer is primarily the product of iso-alpha acids. Iso-alpha acids are formed from the isomerization of alpha acids extracted from the hops, which are not bitter by themselves. Isomerization happens during the boil, so any alpha acids extracted during dry hopping will not contribute to the beers bitterness. Although the alpha acids will not contribute to bitterness, polyphenols which are extracted during dry hopping, can contribute to perceived bitterness independently and synergistically with iso-alpha acids formed during the boil. Polyphenols have also been shown to increase astringency which can also increase perceived bitterness and dryness.

My ignorance didn't cross over to polyphenols. What are hop phenols? You mentioned hop phenols in regards to taste. I'd like to know more about that.

 

[preluderl]

WTF?! THAT PICTURE MOVED!!!

His choice of gif is telling.

 

[beerman6686]

My ignorance didn't cross over to polyphenols. What are hop phenols? You mentioned hop phenols in regards to taste. I'd like to know more about that.

Hop Polyphenols.

You can also make a quality IPA with almost any hops, so I dont think the type of hops used is the issue. I've even had a great cascade single hopped beer.

 

[shuggy1]

Hop Polyphenols.

What are the effects of hop polyphenols on flavor/taste?

You can also make a quality IPA with almost any hops, so I dont think the type of hops used is the issue.

Not using Belma and El Dorado or Equinox and Cashmere you can't.

I've ever had a great cascade single hopped beer.

That's because The Brew Gentlemen haven't made one yet. I'm sure that would change your tune.

 

[psnydez861]

That's because The Brew Gentlemen haven't made one yet. I'm sure that would change your tune.

 

[beerman6686]

What are the effects of hop polyphenols on flavor/taste?

Good question, I'm not all that sure, that's why I said I'm guessing. hornydevil could definitely speak to that better than me.

Not using Belma and El Dorado or Equinox and Cashmere you can't.

Maybe you can't, that doesn't mean others can't

That's because The Brew Gentlemen haven't made one yet. I'm sure that would change your tune.

That was actually a typo on my part. I meant to say that I've EVEN had a great single hopped cascade beer. And BG did do one called Flight Risk which is the beer I was referencing, and it was fantastic.

 

[tommyguz]

Excuse my ignorance but what are hop phenols?

A shuggy gif. Yes. Sign me up