Pitch more yeast?

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trekie86

trekie86

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I started my first batch last week, 9/28, and got the beer into the fermenting bucket and put on the sterilized lid and the bubbler. I'd say less than 12 hours later, I was bubbling like crazy. I'd say it only did that for 36 to 48 hours and then doesn't seem to have bubbled since.

Do I need to pitch more yeast or give it a swirl to re-suspend the yeast?

My recipe was the True Brew Amber kit.

3.3 lbs Muntons LME Hopped Amber
2 lbs Muntons DME Light
1 oz Cascade Hop Pellets AA: 7.3%
1 packet (6 grams) Muntons Active Brewing Yeast

I re-hydrated the yeast at 38 degrees C and let it re-hydrate for about 30 minutes with a stir in the middle. I had a good froth on the yeast before pitching. I pitched the yeast into my Wort at 22 degrees C, gave it a quick stir with my sterilized spoon and put it in the basement to do its thing. The thermometer on the outside of the bucket has stayed about 68-72 degrees Fahrenheit.

Just another piece of info, not sure if its necessary but the O.G. was 1.043

I'd appreciate any advice for this newbie. If I need to pitch more yeast I'll stop at the brew shop on my way home from work tomorrow.
 
You should be fine...let it sit another 2-3 days then take a gravity sample to see where its at. Your brew is not a big one so 2-3 days of ferment is pretty common.
 
NewWestBrewer said:
You should be fine...let it sit another 2-3 days then take a gravity sample to see where its at. Your brew is not a big one so 2-3 days of ferment is pretty common.
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Thanks for the response. I sure hope that is the case. I did pull the bubbler just to give it a sniff and it smelled like beer, so that's a good sign. I only plan on doing a primary fermentation but was planning on letting this brew sit in the fermenter for 2 weeks, so a little more than a week still to go. In my reading, it seems that this will help further condition the beer, before it gets in the bottle, and let the "stuff" settle to clarify the beer. Do you think that will be a problem?

Again, thanks for the response.
 
trekie86 said:
Thanks for the response. I sure hope that is the case. I did pull the bubbler just to give it a sniff and it smelled like beer, so that's a good sign. I only plan on doing a primary fermentation but was planning on letting this brew sit in the fermenter for 2 weeks, so a little more than a week still to go. In my reading, it seems that this will help further condition the beer, before it gets in the bottle, and let the "stuff" settle to clarify the beer. Do you think that will be a problem?

Again, thanks for the response.
Click to expand...

That is a good plan...most people will even leave it in primary for 3 weeks then bottle. The only way to tell is to take reading 2-3 days apart and if they are the same it is good to go.
 
It's not unusual to have a lower gravity brew finish with visibly active fermentation within the first few days (depending on yeast, temp, etc.)

Do not pitch more yeast (unless you desire yeasty beer). Give it another week, take a hydro reading and see where you're at on this. It will probably be finished.
 
So its been just shy of two weeks and I took a gravity reading. The beer smells like beer, looks like beer, and tastes like fairly good flat beer. However, the specific gravity was 1.020. The kit estimated that the FG should be around 1.010. So my ABV is only 3.02% That seems really low.

My initial assessment is that my yeast stalled out and didn't ferment completely. I'm going to bottle tomorrow because I haven't seen a bubble in over a week. So to learn from my mistakes and not screw up again, did I have too little yeast? Temperature issues? Something else? It's a bummer I have at least two weeks before I can try my beer, so I hope it turns out well.
 
the yeast packet, at 6 grams, is a pretty small one. But you did rehydrate it, so that is good
Other producers give you 11 grams or so. I have never used Munton's because it has (i heard) a bad rap. I am sure some people like it just fine.

Next time choose yeast made by Safale Fermentis, Danstar or another, more expensive, dry yeast. US 05 is a good clean ale strain. there are about 3 to 5 other manufacturers. good luck.
 
midfielder5 said:
the yeast packet, at 6 grams, is a pretty small one. But you did rehydrate it, so that is good
Other producers give you 11 grams or so. I have never used Munton's because it has (i heard) a bad rap. I am sure some people like it just fine.

Next time choose yeast made by Safale Fermentis, Danstar or another, more expensive, dry yeast. US 05 is a good clean ale strain. there are about 3 to 5 other manufacturers. good luck.
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This ^^^^^^^^^.

Also, you're certainly not the first extract brewer to have a batch stop at 1.020 and refuse to go lower. If it's the same gravity in a few days, bottle, wait three weeks and fridge for three days or more before sampling. Don't worry about the ABV so long as it tastes good.:D
 
BigFloyd said:
...Also, you're certainly not the first extract brewer to have a batch stop at 1.020 and refuse to go lower....
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Coming from 1.043, that beer will be quite sweet though. I would let it sit in a warmish place, 70-75°F for a day, give it a good stir and see if it resumes. If it's still at 1.020 after another week, then bottle.

I've had quite a few extracts stop at 1.020-1.022 but they were all coming from 1.064-1.072 OG, which is relatively more sensible. Even after 4 weeks conditioning they stayed put. Yeah, they were a bit sweet, but the balance was very acceptable there.

Something about extract, next time you brew. Only add about 1/3 at the beginning of the boil and the balance, 2/3 at flameout. It makes better beer. And make sure the LME is well dissolved and doesn't stick to the bottom.

+1 on the 11g yeast pouches. US-05 is marvelous.
 
Thanks for all of the responses. I ended up bottling this weekend anyway, when I measured again on Saturday morning there was no change so I'm assuming its done. When I took my sample for the hydrometer reading, it smelled good, looked good, and tasted good, all be it flat. I'm hoping it wasn't a total bust.

It wasn't until doing some more reading that the 6 gram bag seemed small. Everything I've read thus far has been about 11 grams. My next batch I think I'll use a Wyeast "Slap" Pack or a White Labs liquid, I've heard good things about both of them.

Thanks again for all of the responses and I'll let you know how it tastes in 2-3 weeks.
 
trekie86 said:
My next batch I think I'll use a Wyeast "Slap" Pack or a White Labs liquid, I've heard good things about both of them.

Thanks again for all of the responses and I'll let you know how it tastes in 2-3 weeks.
Click to expand...

Until you're ready, willing and able to make a yeast starter plus thoroughly aerate the wort, I'd suggest using an 11g packet of dry yeast like US-05, S-04, Nottingham, BRY-97, etc. You'll get a much better cell count and have a higher probability of a successful fermentation.
 
+100 on that ^.

One vial or smack pack would be equivalent at best to your 6 grams envelope of dry yeast, giving you similar under pitching problems. And keep in mind, the viability of the liquid yeast is never 100% unless it was produced the day before you buy it. So you must make starters or spend a small fortune on multiple vials or smack packs.
 
The recipe I was looking at highly recommended a starter yeast. What do you all recommend as the sugar for starting the yeast? I've seen a pound of DME as a typical yeast starter sugar. Is that a good choice? If that is the choice, what type? Just a light or should it match to what type of beer i'm brewing?

If I were to re-do the same amber beer, would it be best to just get a quality 11 gram packet and re-hydrate that before pitching or make a starter? I'm surprised the kit came with such a small packet but I guess that's what you get for a "cheap" all extract kit.
 
trekie86 said:
The recipe I was looking at highly recommended a starter yeast. What do you all recommend as the sugar for starting the yeast? I've seen a pound of DME as a typical yeast starter sugar. Is that a good choice? If that is the choice, what type? Just a light or should it match to what type of beer i'm brewing?

If I were to re-do the same amber beer, would it be best to just get a quality 11 gram packet and re-hydrate that before pitching or make a starter? I'm surprised the kit came with such a small packet but I guess that's what you get for a "cheap" all extract kit.
Click to expand...

You want to use light or extra light DME for your starter, and a pound should make a whole lot of starters. You essentially want to make a low gravity wort for the yeast to grow and multiply in. Here's a decent place to start regarding how to make a starter-

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/how-make-yeast-starter-pictorial-updated-340261/

Here's a handy calculator that can help determine the size of the starter you need to make based on the size of the batch, the OG, whether you're using a starter or not, and the date the yeast was made-

http://yeastcalc.com/

A properly rehydrated 11g packet of dry yeast isn't any better or worse than a liquid yeast with a properly made starter. There is a wider variety of yeast strains in liquid form, since many strains can't handle the drying process. I use about equal amounts of dry yeast and liquid yeasts personally. For an amber ale I'd likely use Safale S-04, which is a dry yeast, but that's just personal preference.
 
What variety of brew are we talking about?

Plenty of beers will turn out delicious using dry yeast. Much more important than dry vs. liquid is chilling the wort (into the 60's for ales) before pitching, pitching the right amount of viable yeast cells, and closely controlling the fermentation temp.

With the 11g packet, rehydrate (preferred) or sprinkle dry. Don't bother making a starter with dry yeast. That's a waste of time and effort.
 
The rehydration step is also a viability check. If the yeast does not cream/foam up within 15-30 min, it may be DOA.
Dry yeast are created(?) a certain way such that they only need rehydration-- adding wort/sugar for a starter actually delays their ability to ferment the beer.
Lastly, dry yeast packets have waaay more yeast cells than liquid vials/smack packs, so there is no need to make a starter for normal OG & 5 gallon batches. It may be necessary for some beers to pitch two packets.
 
trekie86 said:
Looking back at the recipe, I thought it recommended a starter. http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brickwarmer-holiday-red-extract-kit-w-specialty-grains.html

So a random noob question, how would making a starter be a waste of time with dried yeast if it is growing more yeast and making sure they are healthy. If you get a pack of yeast, it could be a partial dud and you wouldn't know unless you started it. Right?
Click to expand...

That kit will be just fine with S-04 so long as you control the ferment temp. It will do a great job if you start it at 63-64*F, keep it there the first 4-5 days and then let it come up to finish at 68*F. Caution - If you ferment with S-04 in the 70's, it will kick off plenty of esters and maybe some other undesirable flavors.

The reason that you rehydrate dry yeast instead of doing a starter with it has to do with the need to reconstitute their cell walls (which happens best in 95-105*F tap water) before pitching them into wort.
 
trekie86 said:
So a random noob question, how would making a starter be a waste of time with dried yeast if it is growing more yeast and making sure they are healthy. If you get a pack of yeast, it could be a partial dud and you wouldn't know unless you started it. Right?
Click to expand...

An 11.5g packet of dry yeast has ~200b viable cells in it, which is plenty to give a decent pitching rate for 5gal of all but the highest gravity beers. The cell viability stays very high for a very long time, even when not stored under optimal conditions. It is possible to get a packet of dry yeast that's mostly dead, but it's highly unlikely, and you'd notice it during rehydration when nothing happens and it smells bad.

Liquid yeast on the other hand starts out with ~100b cells, and viability decreases rapidly, especially if it's not stored properly. You can use MrMalty or yeastcalc to estimate how many viable cells are left in your liquid yeast based on the production date, but it's usually going to be significantly less than the 100b cells it started out with. The low cell count is the main reason a starter is recommended for liquid yeast.

You certainly can make a starter with rehydrated dry yeast, but it's typically not necessary unless you're fermenting large batches or something with a super high gravity. And since dry yeast is typically quite a bit cheaper than liquid, many people opt to simply use a second packet of dry yeast rather than making a starter with one packet.
 
JuanMoore said:
You certainly can make a starter with rehydrated dry yeast, but it's typically not necessary unless you're fermenting large batches or something with a super high gravity. And since dry yeast is typically quite a bit cheaper than liquid, many people opt to simply use a second packet of dry yeast rather than making a starter with one packet.
Click to expand...

+1. Technically, you can make a starter using dry yeast, but you ought to fully rehydrate it first, then pitch into the starter wort. I don't know anyone who does this for the reason pointed out by JuanMoore. One 11g packet of rehydrated dry ale yeast is plenty for a 5-gallon batch up to 1.060.
 
BigFloyd said:
+1. Technically, you can make a starter using dry yeast, but you ought to fully rehydrate it first, then pitch into the starter wort. I don't know anyone who does this for the reason pointed out by JuanMoore. One 11g packet of rehydrated dry ale yeast is plenty for a 5-gallon batch up to 1.060.
Click to expand...
Back when dry yeast cost ~$2/packet I wouldn't have ever thought about making a starter rather than just buying 2-3 packets. Now the LHBS wants $4-8/packet for dry yeasts, and since I brew 10-12 gal batches of primarily higher gravity beers, I've been considering making starters even when using dry yeast.
 
JuanMoore said:
Back when dry yeast cost ~$2/packet I wouldn't have ever thought about making a starter rather than just buying 2-3 packets. Now the LHBS wants $4-8/packet for dry yeasts, and since I brew 10-12 batches of primarily higher gravity beers, I've been considering making starters even when using dry yeast.
Click to expand...

I have been washing and making starters with Nottingham, US - 05 and S-04

I could not be happier with reusing my yeast

all the best

S_M
 
midfielder5 said:
The rehydration step is also a viability check. If the yeast does not cream/foam up within 15-30 min, it may be DOA.
Dry yeast are created(?) a certain way such that they only need rehydration-- adding wort/sugar for a starter actually delays their ability to ferment the beer.
Lastly, dry yeast packets have waaay more yeast cells than liquid vials/smack packs, so there is no need to make a starter for normal OG & 5 gallon batches. It may be necessary for some beers to pitch two packets.
Click to expand...

When I re-hydrated my yeast, I did get a good foam so that makes me feel good. So I guess I'm not sure if the size of the yeast packet or the fermentation temp were my culprit.

I've read good things about the S04 so I'm hoping it works well. I'm quite excited about my next brew and I haven't even tasted my first brew yet.
 
trekie86 said:
When I re-hydrated my yeast, I did get a good foam so that makes me feel good. So I guess I'm not sure if the size of the yeast packet or the fermentation temp were my culprit.

I've read good things about the S04 so I'm hoping it works well. I'm quite excited about my next brew and I haven't even tasted my first brew yet.
Click to expand...

S-04, Nottingham and US-05 have become my go-to dry yeasts for brews that don't need a style-specific liquid yeast. You can (and will) make some excellent beers using them. I've got two batches (a coffee porter and a graff cider) fermenting right now both with S-04.
 
BigFloyd said:
S-04, Nottingham and US-05 have become my go-to dry yeasts for brews that don't need a style-specific liquid yeast. You can (and will) make some excellent beers using them. I've got two batches (a coffee porter and a graff cider) fermenting right now both with S-04.
Click to expand...

Great to hear. Thanks
 
JuanMoore said:
You want to use light or extra light DME for your starter, and a pound should make a whole lot of starters. You essentially want to make a low gravity wort for the yeast to grow and multiply in. Here's a decent place to start regarding how to make a starter-

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/how-make-yeast-starter-pictorial-updated-340261/

Here's a handy calculator that can help determine the size of the starter you need to make based on the size of the batch, the OG, whether you're using a starter or not, and the date the yeast was made-

http://yeastcalc.com/

A properly rehydrated 11g packet of dry yeast isn't any better or worse than a liquid yeast with a properly made starter. There is a wider variety of yeast strains in liquid form, since many strains can't handle the drying process. I use about equal amounts of dry yeast and liquid yeasts personally. For an amber ale I'd likely use Safale S-04, which is a dry yeast, but that's just personal preference.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this!
 
Well the verdict is in and it tastes great! I was expecting it to be very sweet but in fact it wasn't too sweet at all. It had a nice bitterness and good mouth feel. Can't wait for my next batch.

ForumRunner_20131026_211606.jpg
 

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