Pilsner Fermentation Temperature

[byronyasgur]

I'm doing my first pilsner using Lallemand Diamond Lager yeast. The temp range is 10-15°C ( 50 to 59°F) . From doing ales I know that generally speaking the ales tend to be better at the lower end of their range but I don't know is it the same for lagers. I know for saison there's a ramped temp ( to dry the beer out ? ) and I do like a crisp dry lager so maybe that's what I should do. I have fermentation chamber so I can set it to any temp I like. Right now it's at 10.5°C. What's the best approach for this?

http://www.lallemandbrewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/lallemand-tds-diamond-080317.pdf

 

[waldoar15]

I've never used that yeast, but I ferment Lagers with 34/70 @52*F which is on the low end of what Fermentis quotes as the ideal range. I know people go lower though.

 

[byronyasgur]

I've never used that yeast, but I ferment Lagers with 34/70 @52*F which is on the low end of what Fermentis quotes as the ideal range. I know people go lower though.

thanks - and do you ever feel the need to go towards the upper range to dry it out or for any other reason towards the end of the fermentation

 

[mredge73]

I brew my ales at the lowest recommend temp and my lagers at the highest recommended temp.
At the end of fermentation, most people allow the temp to come up into the 60Fs (diacetyl rest) for a short duration to let the yeast do a little clean up.
You can leave it here a few days if you like to dry it out. What is most important is that the wort is cool while oxygen is present and the yeast is multiplying, never pitch a lager yeast in warm wort. The first 1-2 days are critical.

 

[waldoar15]

thanks - and do you ever feel the need to go towards the upper range to dry it out or for any other reason towards the end of the fermentation

I always run them up for a D-rest towards the end.

 

[byronyasgur]

I always run them up for a D-rest towards the end.

yes sorry I forgot d-rest - I meant aside from that?

 

[waldoar15]

yes sorry I forgot d-rest - I meant aside from that?

Nope. I'm in no hurry.

 

[Dcpcooks]

I typically pitch at the bottom of the range and warm it two degrees. Then I ramp it up 3 or 4 degrees more for the d rest before knocking it down to 33-35 for a month

 

[byronyasgur]

I typically pitch at the bottom of the range and warm it two degrees.

Why do you warm it is that just to speed up the fermentation or is there a taste associated do you think?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Lagers are really quite strain specific. 34/70 can go quite warm, some strains will be estery and sulfurous if fermented warm. Lallemand diamond is probably the same strain as either 34/70 or S23. If it's 34/70, you can ferment warm. If it's S23, you really need to keep it cool.

There's no need to ramp temps to get a crisp finish - just make sure you pitch enough yeast and aerate thoroughly. I've found a diacetyl rest isn't needed if yeast is pitched cool and then warmed slightly for fermentation (I normally pitch at 8C then ferment at 10C) - test for it when your ferment is about 80 to 90% done and then decide.

 

[Dcpcooks]

Why do you warm it is that just to speed up the fermentation or is there a taste associated do you think?

Cause those yeasties are making babies.

Kidding aside I prefer to stick to the low to middle of the range for Kölsch, pilsners and lagers. I don’t want esters to get a foothold which is possible if your temp control lags during exothermic peak and you spike temps out of the range. However I don’t want slow yeast in the lag and growth phase. By warming it slightly you give the yeast metabolism a gentle kick to encourage growth. That’s even more important if your starter is room temp.

 

[byronyasgur]

Cause those yeasties are making babies.

Kidding aside I prefer to stick to the low to middle of the range for Kölsch, pilsners and lagers. I don’t want esters to get a foothold which is possible if your temp control lags during exothermic peak and you spike temps out of the range. However I don’t want slow yeast in the lag and growth phase. By warming it slightly you give the yeast metabolism a gentle kick to encourage growth. That’s even more important if your starter is room temp.

LOL well I'll take your word on it on all that - I haven't a clue about half of it but it definitely sounds like you know what you're talking about ...
... quickly runs to adjust stc1000 temp

 

[Dcpcooks]

Yeast are pretty forgiving, especially if you have ferm temp control. Which you do[emoji106]

So for the first few hours yeast stabilize and acclimate to the environment. If it’s cold they may slow down a bit. If it’s hot they run with it and take off. That’s not a substitute for a properly sized yeast pitch but it can help at times. Warming the yeast slightly keeps them happy.

Once they have gone through the lag phase they grow the population. Basically Darwin stuff but they’ll grow to fit the environment.

Those first stages are important for yeast health. A nice healthy population usually makes a good beer to style. By that I mean it produces the expected flavors and attenuation. (Usually, if you made a good recipe and brewed it right). ( keep em warming up)

Once that’s done they sit down to a feast and eat all the easy sugars or high krausen. They get hot and your chiller may run a bit. ( don’t let em get too hot)

A few days later they start to get hungry again but the simple sugars are gone and they are fat and lazy. So that’s when I’m looking at a gravity sample to see when it’s time for a d rest.

I keep them happy and let them work on the more complex sugars and as that process is completing your just about ready for the drest.

That’s when the party is over and they are burping and farting off flavors. We warm them up to help keep the metabolism up and help them recharge the battery and clean up off flavor precursors. ( last warm days before winter begins)

After that you can crash the temp to Lager.

I try to pay attention to the end of the D rest and I don’t rush this phase. I want a stable FG. If I crash early I’ve gotten off flavors that I probably caused as a shocked the yeast and they couldn’t finish up.

In my experience I like to warm at the beginning, limit things from getting too warm during high krausen then warm it a bit more before I Lager.

 

[byronyasgur]

Yeast are pretty forgiving, especially if you have ferm temp control. Which you do[emoji106]

So for the first few hours yeast stabilize and acclimate to the environment. If it’s cold they may slow down a bit. If it’s hot they run with it and take off. That’s not a substitute for a properly sized yeast pitch but it can help at times. Warming the yeast slightly keeps them happy.

Once they have gone through the lag phase they grow the population. Basically Darwin stuff but they’ll grow to fit the environment.

Those first stages are important for yeast health. A nice healthy population usually makes a good beer to style. By that I mean it produces the expected flavors and attenuation. (Usually, if you made a good recipe and brewed it right). ( keep em warming up)

Once that’s done they sit down to a feast and eat all the easy sugars or high krausen. They get hot and your chiller may run a bit. ( don’t let em get too hot)

A few days later they start to get hungry again but the simple sugars are gone and they are fat and lazy. So that’s when I’m looking at a gravity sample to see when it’s time for a d rest.

I keep them happy and let them work on the more complex sugars and as that process is completing your just about ready for the drest.

That’s when the party is over and they are burping and farting off flavors. We warm them up to help keep the metabolism up and help them recharge the battery and clean up off flavor precursors. ( last warm days before winter begins)

After that you can crash the temp to Lager.

I try to pay attention to the end of the D rest and I don’t rush this phase. I want a stable FG. If I crash early I’ve gotten off flavors that I probably caused as a shocked the yeast and they couldn’t finish up.

In my experience I like to warm at the beginning, limit things from getting too warm during high krausen then warm it a bit more before I Lager.

wow cool - thanks for expanding -

 

[chris000]

Yeast are pretty forgiving, especially if you have ferm temp control. Which you do[emoji106]

So for the first few hours yeast stabilize and acclimate to the environment. If it’s cold they may slow down a bit. If it’s hot they run with it and take off. That’s not a substitute for a properly sized yeast pitch but it can help at times. Warming the yeast slightly keeps them happy.

Once they have gone through the lag phase they grow the population. Basically Darwin stuff but they’ll grow to fit the environment.

Those first stages are important for yeast health. A nice healthy population usually makes a good beer to style. By that I mean it produces the expected flavors and attenuation. (Usually, if you made a good recipe and brewed it right). ( keep em warming up)

Once that’s done they sit down to a feast and eat all the easy sugars or high krausen. They get hot and your chiller may run a bit. ( don’t let em get too hot)

A few days later they start to get hungry again but the simple sugars are gone and they are fat and lazy. So that’s when I’m looking at a gravity sample to see when it’s time for a d rest.

I keep them happy and let them work on the more complex sugars and as that process is completing your just about ready for the drest.

That’s when the party is over and they are burping and farting off flavors. We warm them up to help keep the metabolism up and help them recharge the battery and clean up off flavor precursors. ( last warm days before winter begins)

After that you can crash the temp to Lager.

I try to pay attention to the end of the D rest and I don’t rush this phase. I want a stable FG. If I crash early I’ve gotten off flavors that I probably caused as a shocked the yeast and they couldn’t finish up.

In my experience I like to warm at the beginning, limit things from getting too warm during high krausen then warm it a bit more before I Lager.

that sounds like a bed time story for the little brewer ;-)