PH Meter Replacement

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sgraham602

sgraham602

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I have been using a Milwaukee MT102 PH meter with pretty good results. However the probe has recently gone bad and needs to be replaced. This is not a cheap replacement (about $50). I'm cool with the upkeep and cost of ownership of a PH meter, but I'm wondering if its worth it to continue on with this meter or if another type would be more ideal. For about the same cost I could get a Milwaukee PH55, which has a probe that is cheaper to replace and ATC that is all contained in one unit. Whereas the MT102 has separate Temp and PH probes (can be a bit cumbersome). Any thoughts from anyone using either of these PH meters?
 
There is no comparison between the MT102 and the PH55. The 102 is way better. Worth the $50 probe in my opinion.
By contrast, the omega PHH7011 is $99 and the probe is $39. That one is comparable to the MT102, but is more of a pocket probe.
 
acidrain said:
There is no comparison between the MT102 and the PH55. The 102 is way better. Worth the $50 probe in my opinion.
By contrast, the omega PHH7011 is $99 and the probe is $39. That one is comparable to the MT102, but is more of a pocket probe.
Click to expand...

My Extech100, is one wild and bad.

Im not going to compare PH meters. and I'm convinced that in order to get good result, one should invest in a good quality PH meter. But I do not want to buy one and try it in order for me to know if it is good or not.
So, what would be ( for a brewer) a good PH meter? Consistency, accuracy, and probe replacement availability. Any advice?

Ceers
 
The meter is a good one. You would be foolish to downgrade and get an inferior meter and probe, just because its cheaper. You already invested in quality, you should keep with it.

Getting a replacement SE-220 probe is a far better option. I see that you should be able to get one for under $40, shipped in the US. That is a durable, double-junction probe that has proven to be long-lived, as long as you store and use it properly. Keep the bulb submerged in storage solution and never place it in liquid greater than 100F and it should give you years of service. I've had mine for over 4 years and it is just starting to show signs of drifting.
 
Mabrungard;
What meter did you refer to when you said it is a good one? The Extech100, or MW 102?
 
I would never recommend an all-in-one pH meter like the Extech. Owning a good quality meter that employs a BNC-cabled pH probe, is the way to go. That way you are never constrained to buy only the original manufacturer's replacement probe. All BNC-cabled pH probes are manufactured to the same spec and can be used with any BNC equipped meter.
 
Funny to see this today. My PH56's new replacement probe has gone bad after only about 3 batches of use, just as the last probe. It's still working but I am getting the telltale signs of failure I went through with the old probe where it keeps saying WRNG at first try when trying to calibrate to the second 4.01 solution. I keep the probe stored in storage solution. Going to look at other meters instead.


Rev.
 
After a couple beers and looking at different meters last night, I decided to pull the trigger on the Hanna Edge Dedicated pH meter. I feel like it is expensive now but will give me better results and hopefully a longer lasting meter/probe. A couple hundred more than the 102 but I'm thinking it will be better in the long run. I'm really sick of dealing with equipment both in brewing and out that is inconsistent. Should save me some headache and that alone will be worth the extra.

http://shop.hannainst.com/edge-dedicated-ph-orp-meter.html
 
Rev2010 said:
Funny to see this today. My PH56's new replacement probe has gone bad after only about 3 batches of use, just as the last probe. It's still working but I am getting the telltale signs of failure I went through with the old probe where it keeps saying WRNG at first try when trying to calibrate to the second 4.01 solution. I keep the probe stored in storage solution. Going to look at other meters instead.


Rev.
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I have a pH 56 as well, and it's been junk. It's been back to the factory twice, and I've gone through several electrodes (none of which I mistreated). I had ONE electrode which did not drift but it only lasted about 4 months. I would never recommend that meter to anyone.
 
Yooper said:
I have a pH 56 as well, and it's been junk. It's been back to the factory twice, and I've gone through several electrodes (none of which I mistreated). I had ONE electrode which did not drift but it only lasted about 4 months. I would never recommend that meter to anyone.
Click to expand...


Agreed. I've had a horrible experience with mine. That's why I stepped it up a bit to see if it helps any. Plus I usually go overboard with hobbies.
 
At my first home-brew class, a guy from the city water department was one of my "class mates"

Dude said he would never recommend anything other than a Hach meter. That's what I ended up getting. I can't speak for performance yet though because I haven't used mine yet. But I'll trust a water expert.
 
So besides measuring your mash and sparge water to make sure its in the 5.2-5.6 window what other uses might one use this for in home brewing?

seriously I'm wondering if im missing out on something with my $11 ph meter? so far I've been using it to bring my RO water down close to 5.2 ph but all these repeated threads about better higher resolution meters makes me wonder if I'm missing an important useful step step or something?..my cheapy meter is advertised to have .01 accuracy and I doubt its that good but even if its .1 accuracy is that not enough? I have two of these that I use to check for accuracy against one another. From what I have been reading a lot of the expensive ones seem to fail often and at the very least require replacement probes often? or is it the same two brands I keep hearing about that are just bad or super popular (miliwakee and Hanna).
 
You can measure the pH of the beer as it ferments to monitor the yeast progress and to watch for potential autolysis.

That being said I'm with you, 0.1 resolution is plenty. pH is largely an inexact thing to measure and you shouldn't get too hung up on .01 resolution
 
augiedoggy said:
seriously I'm wondering if im missing out on something with my $11 ph meter?
Click to expand...

Jesus dude, are you the budget brewing avenger? You've graduated from complaining about pricey stainless fermenters to pricey pH meters lol. All teasing aside, you know you could've at least given a link to your kickass $11 pH meter. Might consider one myself at that price. My Milwaukee pH56 is crap - primarily because the probes die within a few uses even when cared for properly. So, please share link where the rest of us can also procure your meter at the $11 price you paid. I mean this seriously, not sarcastically, as I'd really like to have a link to your meter since I'm looking to replace mine soon.


Rev.
 
My bad, the two pack is the calibration solutions. Nevertheless this one is fifteen bucks.

If you watch homebrewfinds you'll see similar pen type meters go by for 11-12$ fairly regularly. They might not be the best quality but for what we use them for I think they're fine. You could also buy quite a lot of these for the price of a more competent meter and the occasional replacement probe.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017SLZ0ZI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
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PeteNMA said:
[...] That being said I'm with you, 0.1 resolution is plenty. pH is largely an inexact thing to measure and you shouldn't get too hung up on .01 resolution
Click to expand...

If your meter has a accuracy and resolution of 0.1 and reads pH 5.3, please tell me where your real pH lies...
 
PeteNMA said:
In exactly the desired range for brewing beer.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but the difference will be between 5.2 and 5.4. Sure iit's still within limits but there's definitely a difference in the final product between a 5.1 and 5.3 pH beer (measuring a reading at 5.2 pH).


Rev.
 
You'll see that much change in pH based on when you pull your sample during the mash. The reality is that we have a window which we need to be in, and whilst there is certainly a benefit to being accurate it is much harder than we usually give credit for to make a repeatable determination of effective mash pH.

After all it's a very fluid, moving target. Say you pull a sample, chill it and measure. This takes 5 minutes for the sake of argument. So your mash has been sitting "out of spec" for five minutes during which an awful lot of enzymatic activity has occurred. Next time you brew you pre-add acid malt or lactic or whatever so you take a sample and you are on target.

Until we get a more in depth understanding of these kinds of details, it is far more important to emphasise consistency in process, and adjusting process to give you the final result you are looking for in the flavour of your finished beer.

And the yeast activity and fermentation process has a much greater impact on the finished beer and we never talk about that.

So whilst I definitely agree that mash pH is of some importance, we need to be realistic about how accurate our measurements are even using lab grade NIST calibrated pH meters.
 
I should clarify this too: of all the expensive brewing equipment which we can buy, $100-200 on a pH meter is really pretty tame. There's certainly no harm in getting a nice one for many reasons. It's just in terms of functionality that you can get an adequate unit to put you on the right path and spend the difference on something else, which if you are focused will likely provide as significant an impact on your beer quality. I'd put a good pH meter a long way down the list compared to decent temperature control, chilling, kegging for example.
 
PeteNMA said:
I should clarify this too: of all the expensive brewing equipment which we can buy, $100-200 on a pH meter is really pretty tame. There's certainly no harm in getting a nice one for many reasons. It's just in terms of functionality that you can get an adequate unit to put you on the right path and spend the difference on something else, which if you are focused will likely provide as significant an impact on your beer quality. I'd put a good pH meter a long way down the list compared to decent temperature control, chilling, kegging for example.
Click to expand...

This is what I use, which is value for money but really uncool

View attachment 1452345871576.jpg
 
Now strips really are a crapshoot. They aren't that accurate to begin with and absorb CO2 from the air causing them to drift over time
 
shetc said:
Ask him about this one http://www.hach.com/pocket-pro-ph-tester-with-replaceable-sensor/product?id=17990686211, which apparently aj delange likes.
Click to expand...

I like any meter that can pass the stability test described at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=302256

This Hach meter happens to do that and so I do like it but I also think the MW102 and the Omega similar to the Hach are also good meters for the money. There are lots of others out there too but they tend to be more expensive.

It is not surprising that the water works guy recommended Hach as they are suppliers to the water industry but I have seen other brands in a water works.
 
Thanks for the information. im actually not trying to start a debate if you can believe it. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong... (I also shoot for the 5.2 to 5.6 window)
I have noticed a big improvement in my beers since adjusting my ph water. Also noticed RO water takes away less lactic acid to adjust the ph than tap water... I bought one of those cheap TDS meters to measure the effectiveness of my RO setup and give me an indication of when the filters may need to be changed..
Been using cheap ph and TDS meters for over a year now and they just seem to be easier that messing with solutions and replacement probes for what I would have considered somthing needing higher resolution.
 
PeteNMA said:
Now strips really are a crapshoot. They aren't that accurate to begin with and absorb CO2 from the air causing them to drift over time
Click to expand...

Well, I have been using strips to test my tap water, and the pH value has been very consistent over time. So either the strips are stable or my tap water is changing at the same rate that the strips are drifting. Whether the strips are accurate remains to be seen. I have just made a pale ale using RO water for the first time, along with acidulated malt to adjust the pH. I'll let you know how it turns out.
 
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I think the bill would frighten off most folks here. The electrodes for that meter cost more than what most want to pay for the whole kit. Looks like a good meter, though.
 

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