PH Meter Replacement

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Funny though how much is spent on kettles, panels, etc but for something so important, they skimp.

So elaborate then please on what your suggesting and why?
What will the high end meter accomplish for making beer that the cheap one wont?

Will sparge water that 5.2 really result in different tasting beer than one thats made with 5.3 ph water? Has anyone ever done an actual testing on this? Won't the variance in grain change this from Bach to batch anyway?
 
Also it doesn't follow that people who are heavily invested in this hobby don't have a higher end pH meter.

What we are suggesting is that it is possible to get an appropriate quality pH meter for very little money. This gets you started with measuring and adjusting pH which is definitely important to making quality beer. It doesn't need to be a $100+ investment just to get started
 
I'm suggesting that folks spend hundreds to thousands on other shiny gear that usually has less of an impact but are afraid to spend a couple hundred on a pice of gear that has a greater impact.

Try not to read too deep into it.
 
I understand precisely what you mean. However you don't provide any actual evidence to support that assertion, you are just saying that people who have some expensive things don't have other expensive things.

It also looks like your Hi2002 is precisely the sort of thing you are criticising others for having, you are well past the point of diminishing returns for brewing purposes with that meter. Yet you enjoy having it for use with this hobby. Nothing wrong with that
 
I understand precisely what you mean. However you don't provide any actual evidence to support that assertion, you are just saying that people who have some expensive things don't have other expensive things.

It also looks like your Hi2002 is precisely the sort of thing you are criticising others for having, you are well past the point of diminishing returns for brewing purposes with that meter. Yet you enjoy having it for use with this hobby. Nothing wrong with that


I'm not criticizing them for having them because in all honesty, I have the meter, the shiny kettle, and the panel. The point I am trying to make is when someone spends money on a less important item but says another is too expensive.

I bought a better meter for multiple reasons. One of which is I feel it will be more accurate and last longer.

Keep buying your $10 meter. Honestly, I could care less. I think though that with cheaper, to a certain point, you lose the accuracy and durability of said component. You guys also make a big deal over how +/- .1 isn't a huge deal and you are likely correct. But you are also assuming that your meter is calibrating correctly and is also displaying the correct data on the screen vs what your sample really is. I guess I don't 100% buy it. But who cares, it's not my beer or processes. So does it really matter?
 
I was attempting to use a new piece of chit verizon tablet they gave me in a trade in deal with my last phone... The touchscreen is downright terrible.
It was clear what you meant but i couldn't resist and it does clearly have something to do with the MASH. Also, as it came from Verizon I assume the
'c' should be an 's'?
 
The point I am trying to make is when someone spends money on a less important item but says another is too expensive.

I know exactly what you are saying and agree. I think at times the size of an item gives the false impression that somehow makes it more acceptable to buy at a higher price than a small item. One thing my step father taught me that he passed down from his dad was "we can't afford to buy cheap" - the premise being a few points, one could be that the cheaper product will fail and then require you to rebuy another unit which overall or in the longer run can cost more than buying the better model outright (which I've experienced firsthand) or two, you won't ever be fully happy since you always wanted the better one and will continue to wish for it and eventually buy it anyway (also something I've experienced first hand).

Of course, the question is to know when to just get the better model. I'm looking now to replace my Milwaukee pH56 and this is after a recent probe replacement. In this instance it probably would've been smarter to go with a better meter upfront. Other times though the cheaper item has held up just fine, like my Agata bench capper.

Everyone has their reasonable price point however. What's cheap or reasonable to you or I might be way too expensive for another and hence there will always be arguments and demands to qualify the value of a purchase. Unfortunately there's really no way to jump into the future and say, "well I'm still using my pH meter in 10 years from now but you will have bought a new meter every year with the cost and shipping equating to more than my meter costs and your accuracy isn't as high resolution as mine." or "you were right, my pricey meter failed after only 16 months!".


Rev.
 
Point made, in this case though with the amount of people having to buy expensive replacement probes for their expensive lab grade meters and so many threads complaining or failures and maintenance I just dont see the point?

The expensive meters require more work and even then appear to not any more reliable, and the accuracy is just not needed? Many people buy the expensive kettles because they dont want to look at an old igloo cooler or beat up mismatched kettles, They have limited budgets and want to put that money to use where they feel it will have the biggest impact.... Since the ph just has to be in a window of say 5.2 and 5.6 I dont see pricey meter being justified, especially for many homebrewers who only brew a handful of times a year.(Especially when so many home brewers dont even treat their water!) You dont have to stare at and work with your ph meter during the whole brew session like something like a kettle or even a fermenter. A ph meter just needs to do its job and then get tucked away out of sight unlike the other expensive stuff and "bling" that we homebrewers are often buying.

BTW my first $11 meter I bought over a year ago still works fine..I bought the second one for a backup and to have the lit display.. both my meters are easily recalibrated and came with the solutions to do so. I can easily check the calibration by comparing the two which is something not easily done with the pricey meters unless you want to buy 2 and double your high costs.

I Guess I'll find out if I will brew long enough to go through the what 20? cheap meters to equal one of the cheaper high dollar ones without even factoring in all the replacement probes? lets face it here we are talking like 20 to 30 times the cost in comparison not and extra 20% or so for many other "upgrades" if I were making medicines or curing cancer I'd be all for it but its homemade beer. Most make it and enjoy it without any meter at all.
 
So besides measuring your mash and sparge water to make sure its in the 5.2-5.6 window what other uses might one use this for in home brewing?
so far I've been using it to bring my RO water down close to 5.2 ph but all these repeated threads about better higher resolution meters makes me wonder if I'm missing an important useful step step or something?

I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing something wrong... (I also shoot for the 5.2 to 5.6 window)
I have noticed a big improvement in my beers since adjusting my ph water. Also noticed RO water takes away less lactic acid to adjust the ph than tap water.

Are you saying you adjust your water prior to mashing or sparging?
The point is to adjust the mash (or sparge while in contact with grains). Measuring and adjusting raw water does not mean your mash is within range. It's the grains that have all the buffering power, not the water.
 
Are you saying you adjust your water prior to mashing or sparging?
The point is to adjust the mash (or sparge while in contact with grains). Measuring and adjusting raw water does not mean your mash is within range. It's the grains that have all the buffering power, not the water.

Most people adjust there water using prediction tools or recordings from prior brews. As we all know the majority of conversion happens within 10-15 minutes, hence why there are threads about 15 minute mashes. If you're only adjusting after taking that first reading I'd have to wonder if you are most likely past the point of most damage being done.

I always treat my mash and sparge water. One tool at a certain setting would recommend far too high lactic amounts, but I knew that already from prior pH readings and would only use what I knew to be more accurate. I've since found a setting in that tool (use beer color instead) and have gone over my past 3 brews comparing the tools pH estimate using the lactic amounts with water treatments I used and what my pH meter readings were and have found it be extremely accurate.


Rev.
 
Are you saying you adjust your water prior to mashing or sparging?
The point is to adjust the mash (or sparge while in contact with grains). Measuring and adjusting raw water does not mean your mash is within range. It's the grains that have all the buffering power, not the water.

See this is why I asked if I was missing something. Yes I am just adjusting my hlt water... My water normally has a ph of 7.8-8.0 so adjusting it down to 5.2 has helped tremendously for lighter beers... I realized the grain worked as a buffer (one of the reasons for acid malt right?) and I realized darker beers were more forgiving because the roasted malt brought the ph down but I havent really checked my ph after mash in... something I will try..

Rev2010 what prediction tool are you using? I will look into that also.
 
Rev2010 what prediction tool are you using? I will look into that also.

You can use Brun' Water or Brewer's Friend. I'm still currently using Brewer's Friend though I plan to try Brun' Water more soon. Brewer's Friend's calc was suggesting lactic acid amounts that were just too high when I was using the grain bill mode. Since then I've switched to using the beer color mode which works by inputting the grain weight, SRM, and percentage of roasted malts in the grain bill (if there are none input 0). That mode seems to match up to the mash pH readings I've taken and lactic amounts used to within about .1ml - .2ml of suggested lactic amounts. In other words, if I input that I am shooting for a mash pH of 5.35 it suggests using 4.1ml of lactic acid when I used 4ml and got the 5.35 reading from my pH meter. Of course, there's always the likelihood that the meter could be slightly off, but either way I'm right where I want to be. At least it's matched up to the readings notes I've taken for the last three brews I've did.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator


Rev.
 
Yeah, it does no good to simply adjust your water to the correct PH... it will change as soon as it hits the grains.

I also use Brewers Friend... some people don't like it and prefer Bru'n Water, but I find BF to be the easiest to use (I also use color instead of grain).
Since I know my water report, when the grains and volumes are entered, I'm always within a few tenths of predicted, but it's always good to check with a PH meter since water profiles will change depending on the supply and time of year.
 
Yeah, it does no good to simply adjust your water to the correct PH... it will change as soon as it hits the grains.

Since I know my water report, when the grains and volumes are entered, I'm always within a few tenths of predicted, but it's always good to check with a PH meter since water profiles will change depending on the supply and time of year.

I'm thinking I may have misread. I took it originally that you were saying to only treat the water after mashing in, but now I'm re-reading and seeing you were responding to Auggie seeming to suggest that he is treating his water *but to lower the pH of the water itself* and that of course is not the goal since the grains will have an effect on the pH and buffering potential.

So yes, water should be pretreated to either a general prediction of the mash pH based on the water profile and grains (or similar method such as beer SRM/grain weight) or be treated based on past pH recordings for the same recipe and water profile. Water should not be treated to simply lower it's own inherent pH.


Rev.
 
I have the Milwaukee 102. I replaced the probe once...ONCE. Then I bought a Hach pocket pro Plus based on a three discussing this same question with multiple detailed responses by AJDelange, and esteemed HBT member with extensive knowledge and expertise in the realm of water chemistry. Inexpensive in th grand scheme, and easy to use.

TD
 
*but to lower the pH of the water itself* and that of course is not the goal since the grains will have an effect on the pH and buffering potential.

There are two goals in mashing. One is to bring the water to the desired pH and the other is to bring the grains to the desired pH. It's pretty easy to do the former without the grains present but impossible to do the latter without the water present. A lot of brewers take the approach of setting the water pH to the desired mash pH. This effectively zeroes out the water as a cause of high mash pH. If one knows about how much acid it takes to move his grain bill (and this can be estimated) all he has to do is add that amount to water he has already set to mash pH and he is ready to roll or at least ready to do a test mash which should get him pretty close.
 
There are two goals in mashing. One is to bring the water to the desired pH and the other is to bring the grains to the desired pH. It's pretty easy to do the former without the grains present but impossible to do the latter without the water present. A lot of brewers take the approach of setting the water pH to the desired mash pH. This effectively zeroes out the water as a cause of high mash pH.

Right, but that wasn't the overall point, I'm simply agreeing with AcidRain in saying that simply treating your mash water to lower its pH to, say 5.2, isn't the proper way to get a mash pH of 5.2 once the grains are added. Both need to be taken into account. Again, I'll admit I misread the replies between Augie and AcidRain. I thought AcidRain was saying to only add water treatments after mashing in and taking a reading when he was actually responding to Augie believing that, from his past reply, he was only pre-treating his water with the sole intention of bringing it down to the mash pH he desired.


Rev.
 
Right, but that wasn't the overall point, I'm simply agreeing with AcidRain in saying that simply treating your mash water to lower its pH to, say 5.2, isn't the proper way to get a mash pH of 5.2 once the grains are added. Both need to be taken into account. Again, I'll admit I misread the replies between Augie and AcidRain. I thought AcidRain was saying to only add water treatments after mashing in and taking a reading when he was actually responding to Augie believing that, from his past reply, he was only pre-treating his water with the sole intention of bringing it down to the mash pH he desired.


Rev.
Thank you... exactly the point I was making.
 
Having used various pH meters for lab work I think it's more important to find a durable meter and stick with it. Even with high end bench meters it's unlikely to get two of them to read the same. This one of those cases where precision is better than accuracy.
 
And knowing what number you need to hit on the screen to get beer the way you like it
 
Right, but that wasn't the overall point, I'm simply agreeing with AcidRain in saying that simply treating your mash water to lower its pH to, say 5.2, isn't the proper way to get a mash pH of 5.2 once the grains are added. Both need to be taken into account. Again, I'll admit I misread the replies between Augie and AcidRain. I thought AcidRain was saying to only add water treatments after mashing in and taking a reading when he was actually responding to Augie believing that, from his past reply, he was only pre-treating his water with the sole intention of bringing it down to the mash pH he desired.


Rev.
correct... I actually dusted off my copy of "The New complete joy of home brewing the re reread the "advanced home brewing and water" chapter tonight... now i just need to figure out where and how to use the calculators and tools in brewers friend.
 
correct... I actually dusted off my copy of "The New complete joy of home brewing the re reread the "advanced home brewing and water" chapter tonight... now i just need to figure out where and how to use the calculators and tools in brewers friend.
I just did the same and immediately put it back on the shelf. Those few pages are full of errors and misconceptions not to mention the fact that there have been many 'discoveries' since that book was published which make it easy for the home brewer to tackle the water management tasks which CP suggests are way beyond him.
 
I just did the same and immediately put it back on the shelf. Those few pages are full of errors and misconceptions not to mention the fact that there have been many 'discoveries' since that book was published which make it easy for the home brewer to tackle the water management tasks which CP suggests are way beyond him.

yeah I was wondering about that too... There seems to be a lot of outdated info in the book.
 
Having used various pH meters for lab work I think it's more important to find a durable meter and stick with it. Even with high end bench meters it's unlikely to get two of them to read the same. This one of those cases where precision is better than accuracy.

In a pH meter accuracy and precision are, at least at the outset, the same thing. OK, now that I have your attention let's discuss what that really means and let me start by asking you the question "When a manufacturer specifies that his meter has accuracy of 0.05 pH, what does that mean?". I have seen lots of pH meter specs and in only one case did it say what that means. It refers to the stability of the electrode (and electronics but with modern digital implementations the instability of the electronics is insignificant compared to that of the electrode). If the meter can measure voltage and temperature to a certain precision then the least detectable difference in pH is ∆V/57 pH where ∆V is the precision in voltage measurement and 57.88 (20 °C) is a constant that depends on temperature. If, for example, it is 0.2 mV then ∆pH = .0034 pH and, we presume, that the manufacturer would display 0.1 pH resolution. We assume that 200 uV (0.2 mV) is the A/D resolution and that the electronic noise in this design would be 63 uV or less (10 db down). We also note that quantizing the display to 0.01 pH introduces quantizing noise of .0029 pH (0.01/sqrt(12)) in the readings.

We dip the electrode into 4 and 7 buffers and solve a pair of linear equations to come up with slope and offset numbers. The offset is added to the electrode voltage reading and the result is then gained by the offset number. If you do all this and then put the electrode back in 4 buffer (or leave it there while the calculations are being done) and nothing has changed the scaled offset voltage calculated by the meter will be (4.00221-7)*57.88 = 173.521 ~ 173.6 mV (0.2 mV precision). If moved to pH 7 buffer and nothing has changed the calculated scaled offset voltage will be (7.01624-7)*57.88 = -0.9398 ~ -1 mV assuming both buffers were at 20 °C. 4.00221 is the pH of the standard 4 buffer at 20 °C and 7.01624 that of the 7 buffer. Given 173.6 mV the meter divides by 57.88 and subtracts this from 7 to get 7 - 173.6/57.88 = 4.0069 which it rounds to two decimal places to show 4.00. Relative to the true buffer pH of 4.00221 this represents an error of 0.0022. Doing the same for the 7 buffer, the meter would display, to two decimal places, 7.02 while the true 7 buffer pH is 7.01264 for an error of 0.0010.

Thus, at calibration, the meter is dead on, to two decimal places with its accuracy set by its precision.

It would be well at this point to contemplate the fact that the typical NIST technical buffer is manufactured to a tolerance of ±0.02 pH and realize that it is, at calibration, really the buffers that determine the accuracy of the meter.

Now lets go away for 10 minutes and come back. What does the meter read now in 4 buffer? If the electrode is stable, i.e. it does not drift, it will still read 4.00. How about at 20 minutes, a half hour etc.? Any real electrode will, in fact drift and may be off by a few hundredths or, in a cheap meter, many hundredths of a pH unit. It is this drift which really determines the accuracy of which a pH meter is capable. A highly precise (you're going to have to talk to me a bit to convince me your meter should display 3 digits beyond the decimal point though quite a few do) meter that drifts is innacurate. This is why I put so much emphasis on the stability test described in the Sticky.

It is clear from all this that an 'accuracy' spec on a meter is useless unless the conditions (e.g. electrode in 4 buffer in a water bath) and time duration (e.g. over a period of 1 hour) are specified. As I said at the outset the only time I have ever seen this done is for the Hach pH Pro+.
 
And if you want something which is more accurate then this



http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00W3OM3LA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



Is accurate to .05 with a resolution of 0.01. Dial that in on a pH 4 or 5 NIST traceable buffer and you'll be well within any tolerable range for brewing



I'd avoid this meter.

1. The Amazon title says this: 0.05pH High Accuracy Pocket Size pH Meter with ATC and Backlit LCD, 0-14 pH Measurement Range, 0.01 Resolution Handheld, Measure Household Drinking Water(Yellow)


2. The summary says: Large LCD screen, glass probe, 0.05pH readout accuracy, 0.01 Resolution


3. The details list: Resolution: 0.1 PH


4. The manual says: Resolution 0.01 pH and Accuracy +/- .1 pH


So basically if you read 5.3 it could be 5.3 or 5.2 or 5.4. The hundredth's digit is worthless.


I may play with it tonight and see how stable it is but it's being sent back and I'm going to buy the MW102 or the Hach.
 
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I calibrate it with NIST traceable buffers and it consistently reads correctly and accurately when checked against our higher end models at work. When it dies I will get a better model with a replaceable probe, but as AJ notes above and in his other more detailed post on stability testing, the utility of the meter is more defined by how it behaves in reality.
 
I calibrate it with NIST traceable buffers and it consistently reads correctly and accurately when checked against our higher end models at work. When it dies I will get a better model with a replaceable probe, but as AJ notes above and in his other more detailed post on stability testing, the utility of the meter is more defined by how it behaves in reality.


What you're saying is that it's stable and consistent. But what kind of resolution can you get out of it? Alter that solution by .1 and see if the meter registers the difference.

I was all in for trying it given the stated specs (which I admittedly glanced at) but once I had the manual in hand it really gave me a moment to pause and rethink my decision. If I'm going to go to the trouble to measure and adjust pH then I want to be doing it right.
 
I have to ask, in the grand scheme of things will it make a real difference in the beer if the ph is 5.2, 5.3 or 5.4. Is the goal to be precise or just to get into the proper range for good beer.
 
I have to ask, in the grand scheme of things will it make a real difference in the beer if the ph is 5.2, 5.3 or 5.4. Is the goal to be precise or just to get into the proper range for good beer.

For sure! Potentially profound differences. But it will still be beer. Having the understanding of what pH you prefer for particular styles and then having the ability to target them, can be a good thing for great beer.
 
Also if you are brewing a particularly light or dark beer, and take a mash pH that is inaccurate, you might end up trying to make an inappropriate correction to the pH which may be significantly detrimental.

For what it is worth.... I own a mw 102. I also own the Hach pocket pro +. The Hach is simply easier to use due to lack of unwieldy cables. It is more compact. I've already had to replace the mw probe once. It lasted about a year in spite of proper storage. The Hach manual didn't recommend any particular manner of storage (electrode submerged in storage solution for instance). I haven't used it much yet, having been on brewing hiatus since last February. Maybe used it three or four times before that. The goofy instructions that come with the Hach are not very helpful, but there is a user manual you can download which is better for learning how the meter works and how to properly calibrate. The mw meter seemed to have terrible drift between calibration and the time you took a measurement. I wouldn't trust the reading unless I immediately calibrated it then took a measurement. Towards the end of probe one lifetime, it took increasingly long time for it to calibrate, and the meter would "decide" when it was ready to use. The Hach was approximately similar in price as the Milwaukee when I bought mine, maybe a little more due to the S&H fees though.
 
The cabled vs pocket configuration argument is a potato/potahto thing IMO. All fancy lab instruments, of course, use a cabled arrangement.

As to storage of the Hach unit I think everyone now agrees (and this includes Hach who weren't really sure at the outset) that it should be stored upright (stick it in a coffee mug) with a few drops of water in the cap. Doesn't have to be RO or DI.
 
I'd avoid this meter.

1. The Amazon title says this: 0.05pH High Accuracy Pocket Size pH Meter with ATC and Backlit LCD, 0-14 pH Measurement Range, 0.01 Resolution Handheld, Measure Household Drinking Water(Yellow)


2. The summary says: Large LCD screen, glass probe, 0.05pH readout accuracy, 0.01 Resolution


3. The details list: Resolution: 0.1 PH


4. The manual says: Resolution 0.01 pH and Accuracy +/- .1 pH


So basically if you read 5.3 it could be 5.3 or 5.2 or 5.4. The hundredth's digit is worthless.


I may play with it tonight and see how stable it is but it's being sent back and I'm going to buy the MW102 or the Hach.
so I asked this in the beginning of the thread and most seem to agree .1 resolution is plenty? I think we are spitting hars here and if an experiment were to be done I highly doubt anyone could tell the difference between a beer with 5.2 mash and 5.3 or even 5.4 for that matter... I'd love to see some sort of evidence to state either way though.
 
so I asked this in the beginning of the thread and most seem to agree .1 resolution is plenty? I think we are spitting hars here and if an experiment were to be done I highly doubt anyone could tell the difference between a beer with 5.2 mash and 5.3 or even 5.4 for that matter... I'd love to see some sort of evidence to state either way though.


I am more concerned with accuracy than resolution. An accuracy of .1 is too wide of a margin (2 points) when we're trying to stay in a 4 point window.
 
I am more concerned with accuracy than resolution. An accuracy of .1 is too wide of a margin (2 points) when we're trying to stay in a 4 point window.

See I am more concerned with this resolution having an actual effect on on the beer... and it really seems its a moot point if just used for brewing... If not someone has to have collected data on this to state otherwise right? or are people just making assumptions either way here? :mug:

We seem to have to opinions here... Those with expensive high end meters that say it matters and those with cheaper meters (and one or two with better meters) that say its not that critical since there is a range we want to hit and other factors such as the grainbill which will throw off our eact numbers even if we had them. No one seems to have anything to prove either opinion though.. Unless I missed it?
 
so I asked this in the beginning of the thread and most seem to agree .1 resolution is plenty?

I would emphatically disagree with that. Precision and accuracy are related. In setting precision one introduces quantizing noise equal to the precision divided by sqrt(12). Thus a meter that displays to 0.01 has introduced 0.00288 pH quantizing noise and one that displays to 0.1 has 0.0288 pH (rms in both cases) quantizing noise. A good designer does not throw away appreciable accuracy and the general rule of thumb is that quantizing noise should be at least 10 dB (factor of sqrt(10) = 3.16228) below the other system noises. Thus if one is to limit his display to .01 resolution the other system 'noises' (errors) are presumed to be 0.00288*3.16228 = 0.0091 pH. In fact a good meter using NIST traceable 4 an 7 ±0.02 buffers is capable of delivering about 0.0141 pH error at pH 5.5 (half way between the two buffers and, when using ±0.01 buffers about half that. In this case .01 resolution is justified and, unless the inherent accuracy of the meter is to be thrown away, necessary.

Now if the intrinsic accuracy of the meter is 10 times this, i.e. 0.141 a quantizing noise level of 0.00228 is 20*log(0.141/0.00228) = 35.8 dB below that and we are wasting money on a 0.01 display as the quantizing noise from an 0.1 display is 20*log(.141/.0288) = 15.8 db (more than 10 dB below the inherent noise of the meter. Thus the presence of an 0.1 precision display says that the basic accuracy of the meter is about 0.1 pH.

The implications of this are seen in the graph which shows the distribution of true solution pH's which would cause a reading of 5.4 or 5.40 on, respectively, .1 and 0.01 resolution meters. The inherent accuracyof the 0.01 meter is 0.014 as that is about what one can expect at mash pH with ±0.02 buffers and, for the 0.1 meter is 10 times that as design practice dictates that this would be the level appropriate for a 0.1 meter. The percentages on the left axis are the probabilities that the pH of the sample is less than the pH indicated on the horizontal axis. Thus the probability that the actual sample pH is less than 5.4 is 50% for either meter. For the 0.1 meter (red curve) there is a 25% probability that the actual pH is less that 5.3 and a 75% chance that it is greater than 5.5 which means a 25% chance that it is greater than 5.5 or a 50% chance that it is between 5.3 and 5.5. There is also a 10% chance that the actual pH may be less than 5.2 and a 10% chance that it may be greater than 5.58. This should make it clear why 0.1 resolution is not acceptable to a brewer. 5.4 on the display means the actual pH could be between 5 and 5.8 though it is most likely (82%) to be between 5.2 and 5.6. Conversely with 0.01pH resolution a reading of 5.4 means the pH is between 5.38 and 5.42 with 80% probablity.



I think we are spitting hars here and if an experiment were to be done I highly doubt anyone could tell the difference between a beer with 5.2 mash and 5.3 or even 5.4 for that matter... I'd love to see some sort of evidence to state either way though.

It has certainly been my experience that there is great difference between a lager brewed at mash pH of 5.65 and 5.45 and a less striking, but nevertheless discernable ones for differences of 0.1.

pHReadingDistr.jpg
 
We seem to have to opinions here... Those with expensive high end meters that say it matters and those with cheaper meters (and one or two with better meters) that say its not that critical since there is a range we want to hit and other factors such as the grainbill which will throw off our eact numbers even if we had them. No one seems to have anything to prove either opinion though.. Unless I missed it?

A brewer with a digital thermometer that had a resolution of 5 °F ( i.e. 120, 125, 130... are the only possible readings) could well argue that there is nothing wrong with the beers he makes with it. That's because he has not experienced the better beers that he could make with a thermometer with 1 °F resolution.

It is not sufficient to be between 5.2 and 5.6. Each type of beer has an appreciably narrower range that produces the best results. When we say 5.4 - 5.6 is good for lagers we don't mean you can be anywhere in that range. We mean you should shoot for that range to start and then find the point within it that gives the most pleasing results.
 

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