Persimmon wine

[Timofey Gorlov]

Hi wine gurus. Yesterday I harvested some fuyu persimmons and started 3 gallon must.
I put the following ingredients into my jar

3 gal of persimmon blended puree with no skins
2lb corn sugar
3 Camden tablets
2 tsp of pectin enzymes

The sugar has been measured by refractometer before I added corn sugar. It is really that sweet and hard to eat.
All receipts suppose to mix 50/50 water and persimmon puree but I decided to do the 100% puree for more taste.
Right now it has consistency/density of liquid honey and I hope that enzymes will "digest" it into the juice.
Is that right? Should I wait couple more days before adding some yeast?
I'm afraid if I add yeast now then my must will "boil" and escape the jar through the top.
Do you have any ideas how to make it more liquid and juicy?

 

[Seamonkey84]

I have no idea about persimmons specifically, so If you could check the ph that would be best. Either way, Give it 24-36 hours to let the enzyme chew away at it, maybe gently stirring a few times after the first 12hrs. Then shake and stir it like crazy to oxygenate before pitching the yeast.

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

I think to prevent volcano I should start very slow fermentation in my garage with at low temperatures. What temperature do you think would be acceptable and what kind of yeast would be appropriate Lalvin-1118 or champagne?

 

[Seamonkey84]

If you have a 5 gal carboy or bucket then use it! The yeast will also start breaking down most of the fruit pulp, your going to have a big foam layer. I aim for a few degrees below the middle of the temp range of the yeast being used (65-68 for ec-1118). I’ve read that’s best unless your trying to bring out certain esters that the yeast may be know to give off.
Mind you, I’m fairly new to this myself, I just started making mead/wine again this past April. I just do a lot of reading and have now gotten into a habit of always having something going. Currently 10 batches in, almost all using Brays one month mead protocol (aka BOMM, uses wyeast 1388) interchangeably for my fruit wines.

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

I got nice volcano tonight so I had to find bigger jar and it would be ok now.
I got another question, I have original gravity up to 30 Brixx (about 17% of potential alcohol) and I decided to use Red Star - COTES DES BLANC yeast that are supposed to be very weak and will ferment up to 12-13% ABV. No more. In this way I want to get 12% sweet wine with remaining fructose in it. At the same time I know that I have a tiny amount of wild yeast from persimmon skin. I removed all skins at the beginning and made my juice out of pulp but I'm sure there is something left. The question is - what about interference of wild yeast and my Red star yeast? When the red star is done fermenting with 12% ABV will it still continue fermentation with the wild yeast?

 

[Seamonkey84]

The campden tablets hinder/kill wild yeasts and other new asties, don’t over think it. As for finishing sweet, most likely. proper step feeding of nutrients and daily degassing can help push it further, but most fruit wines taste better with some sweetness left in to bring out fruit flavor. If you want it to go drier, you can add a bit of water since you didn’t include any in your original must.

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

feeding of nutrients

Why I really need to add nutrients. Everybody say that they just accelerate fermentation but don't change anything in the end. The result is the same but slower. Isn't it? Or you think it will change the quality at the end?

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

The campden tablets hinder/kill wild yeasts

When I did, blackberry cider, after I added campden to blackberry juice it started "boiling" like a crazy few hours later on its own without external yeast.

 

[Maylar]

Happy, healthy yeast make better wine.

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

After 1 week of fermentation my persimmon puree is still pretty dense like in the beginning. Now fermentation is in process.
Do you think I should add little bit of water or I can wait another week?

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

I added 1 gal of water into 3 gal existing persimmon pulp and the CO2 bulbs are going up easily through the pulp/juice. How long do you think COTES DES BLANC will perform its fermentation until 13-14% abv?

 

[Seamonkey84]

I don’t have personal experience with that yeast or fruit, but generally that would depend on temp and available nutrients. But don’t add nutrients past 10%abv. Higher temp may get it to finish faster, but may also produce more esters from the yeast and blow out some more aroma/flavor from the fruit. It’s a practice of patience, low and slow is often better than fast. Some yeasts are better for faster batches but doesn’t mean it better for overall flavor.

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

I don’t have personal experience with that yeast or fruit, but generally that would depend on temp and available nutrients. But don’t add nutrients past 10%abv. Higher temp may get it to finish faster, but may also produce more esters from the yeast and blow out some more aroma/flavor from the fruit. It’s a practice of patience, low and slow is often better than fast. Some yeasts are better for faster batches but doesn’t mean it better for overall flavor.

I have temperature about 70F, no more.

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

Today morning I have got very exciting results in my 7 gal batch. The pulp suddenly got split at the bottom and started to separate clear juice from dense pulp. (see the pictures). The top, part drops smallest pieces of the pulp that falling down to the bottom in form of "dust". I hope it is what I expected to happen in the beginning. Does anybody have explanation what is going on in there?

 

[Seamonkey84]

As the co2 gases out, the stiff will start to sink. Over time, it should all settle. Gently swirling the jug will get the stuff to break up and gas out sooner.

 

[wildmazer]

it should all settle, and hopefully compress somewhat - i hope you end up with more clear liquid than that! persimmon is notoriously fluffy when it breaks down - lots of little fibers.

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

Today, I did it! I squeezed 3 gallon of juice out of 4 gallon of pulp and it went pretty well. After fermentation pulp became squeezable. I added little bit yeast nutrient that I didn't do before and more sulfates and now it will go to secondary fermentation after 3 weeks of primary.

From this process I learned that I should add some water into pulp at the beginning in order to lets co2 go up easily through the pulp. But no more.

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

Finally, I have bottled my persimmon wine. During my production I made a lot of mistakes so the final wine was not the best one. It's comparable to $7/bottle of sweet swine from Walmart but not any better. Anyway I have received valuable experience and I know how to do it right. This year I expect even mode persimmons in November and I will make it right way! Please ask me if you have any questions about it.

 

[Timofey Gorlov]

The wine was very tart and undrinkable right after bottling but two month later it became smooth and much better. I think it should be aged 1 year and then it will be perfect.

 

[cottonwoodks]

Interesting. I never would have thought of making wine with persimmons. They're so....dense. But we have a bunch of persimmons trees, and more fruit than we ever know what to do with, so I might give it a try.

 

[Wrathchild]

Today, I did it! I squeezed 3 gallon of juice out of 4 gallon of pulp and it went pretty well. After fermentation pulp became squeezable. I added little bit yeast nutrient that I didn't do before and more sulfates and now it will go to secondary fermentation after 3 weeks of primary.
View attachment 657149
From this process I learned that I should add some water into pulp at the beginning in order to lets co2 go up easily through the pulp. But no more.

I'm trying wild persimmons myself for the first time. Im on day 6 in primary and its sooooo thick. When I break the surface, the must under it is very wet but when I stir it in its all thick as hell. I guess I have a week or more to go. Mt question is, how did you squeeze that liquid out? I brew beer so im gonna put it in a brew bag and squeeze like the dickens

 

[cottonwoodks]

I'm starting some persimmon wine today, with persimmons from a friend's freezer. Haven't weighed them yet, but I suspect about ten pounds. I was planning on following the Jack Keller recipe, with 3 lbs fruit/gallon and adding water.'

But it sounds like you all have used mostly pulp. Haven't found a recipe that calls for a 50/50 ratio of pulp to water.....