Pellicle at 36 hrs?

[dlutter]

Can a pellicle form as quickly as 36hrs post pitching (60 hr post pressing) ?

This is a picture of my home pressed perry this morning. It's my first time doing anything with pressed fruit. I pressed it, added K-Meta, waited 24 hrs and then pitched with the yeast packet in the picture. The only sketchy thing is that the yeast was 2 yrs expired and didn't start bubbling until this morning.

I have 2 other carboys of the same Perry using 2 different yeast (also expired) that are progressing normally.

 

[Sequoiacider]

That doesn't look good to me. It may be a sign of infection of some sort, but it could be okay as well. Did you properly sanitize your carboys and all equipment? I have found that Perry is much more likely to become contaminated, especially if the desired yeast did not take hold early enough to outcompete the bad bugs.
It could still be okay though. No need to dump it just yet. Let it ferment. If the film turns green or black, then its a loss and should be dumped. If the film stays white, you are probably okay. When you rack it, be sure to avoid the film, and be sure to take steps to avoid cross-contamination with your other batches. If it smells or tastes like vinegar, then you have acetobacter contamination, which makes vinegar and is probably a waste (unless you really like vinegar). If it has a funky smell and taste (not vinegery), then you probably have Brettanomyces, which is drinkable. Some people even prefer the flavor imparted by Brett. If it has neither of those smells/tastes/colors, then you are also fine.

Why use expired yeast? Yeast packets are quite cheap. You can even use a single packet for multiple batches if you make a starter first.

 

[dlutter]

Thanks for the explanation. I've never read/heard mention of pellicle forming so quickly, usually after weeks/months in the carboy.

I'm a sanitation stickler so am comfortable that it isn't from my equipment but I can see how I could get contamination from the press or even the fruit itself. I was planning to let it go and see how it turns out. I'll be on the look out for the black/green film and vinegar flavor. Here's hoping for some good tasting wild Brett. Maybe it'll be the start of a new sour program for me!

Why use expired yeast? Simply poor planning and lack of time on my part. I intended to purchase all yeast from my local shop and decided not to make a starter. When I went to the shop on Saturday they were out of the yeast I wanted (all 4 different options I asked for). Apparently they had had a rush of people buying yeast for cider last week and ran out. I only had time to press the pears last Sunday. Some of the pears were already starting to get too ripe and I felt like I couldn't delay until the yeast arrived in the mail. FWIW, I have a new order of yeast arriving Thurs for when I press all of my apples.

 

[RPh_Guy]

A pellicle can easily form in less than a day.
It simply indicates the presence of wild yeast and/or bacteria, and only forms in the presence of oxygen.
By using expired yeast, the wild microbes were allowed to grow and the oxygen allowed the pellicle formation. Normally the yeast purges the oxygen before a pellicle can form, and competes against many of the wild microbes, either limiting their growth or killing them altogether.

The wild microbes almost certainly came from the unpasteurized juice, which is completely normal and expected.

They're absolutely nothing bad or dangerous about a pellicle. The same microbes would be there whether or not you pitched expired yeast, and the same or similar wild microbes are in your other batches without pellicles.

K-meta isn't a magical kill-everything pill/powder.
The anti-microbial action of sulfite is based on pH, so when the pH is too high, more sulfite is required to inhibit the wild microbes.
Pear juice is less acidic that apple juice or other wines and if you don't properly adjust the sulfite amount (and/or the acidity), then it doesn't function as you'd hope. Used error is why Perry is more prone to "contamination".

As mentioned, ride it out. There's nothing wrong with it. Wild microbes can make great wines even by themselves.

Many microbes produce acetic acid, you couldn't say whether there's Acetobacter regardless of acetic acid presence.
Acetic acid is only produced in the presence of ethanol and oxygen, so standard methods to limit oxygen exposure prevent acetic acid. There's nothing to worry about if your process is sound.

Mold is the only concerning microbe, and it's also prevented by limiting oxygen. Mold looks different than a pellicle, so it's easy to visually distinguish with an experienced eye.

Cheers

 

[dlutter]

Pear juice is less acidic that apple juice or other wines and if you don't properly adjust the sulfite amount (and/or the acidity), then it doesn't function as you'd hope. Used error is why Perry is more prone to "contamination".

User error for sure. There was definitely no measuring or adjusting on my part. I used 1.5 Campden tabs per gallon and rounded up the whole tablet. In all 5 tabs for approx 3 gallons.

Here's what it looks like this afternoon. Looks like the package yeast finally caught up.

 

[RPh_Guy]

It'll be fine. No worries!

 

[Seamonkey84]

When our pressed your pears, did you do it in batches and filled the carboy or put it all in a bucket and filled after?Was that carboy the last one your filled from your batch of juice?
It could possibly be the sediments from the juice itself, once fermentation starts, any fruit pieces will float to the top, and the extra particles can cause more foaming.

 

[dlutter]

I did it in batches and filled the carboy as I went. I filled 2 one gallon jugs after I filled this carboy, one of which I am attempting a wild fermentation. There has been no pellicle formation on that one and it is just getting started with its bubbling.

I'm thinking the foaming is just the normal krausen (is that the right term for foam in a cider?) of the primary fermentation. I'm less worried now that the fermentation has taken off. I'll try to remember to post updates and developments if anything interesting happens.